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Old
05-14-2013, 09:50 PM
  #126
napoleon in rags
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Have people's opinions changed about Kessel after this series?
Yes. Was never quite sure, but I finally got to see him play in meaningful games and he was fabulous.

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About him being a player you build around? The Seguin trade? etc?
I think you need another quality piece or two (i.e. a decent 1st centre). Seguin trade... my eyes are glazing over... I don't care anymore.

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He played great in this series, and was one of our best players, if not our best player.
Yes, was a joy watching him.

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And he's shown that he can carry production, without a proper center, through the regular season and into the playoffs.
A good 1st line centre is a must going forward.

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05-14-2013, 10:26 PM
  #127
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I've haven't been the biggest Kessel fan while he's been here,but the last month or two has really changed my mind.
He's the first man back to the defensive zone most of the time,makes a few hits and is even blocking shots.All he needs to be called "elite"is to stop shying away from hits.

If it's not next season it will be the following one where he will be top 5 in the league.And not just in points.

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05-14-2013, 10:29 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
you've insulted our best player with that offer, my good man.
Really?

John Tavares signed a 6 year $33M deal.

You don't think the two are comparable?

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05-14-2013, 10:44 PM
  #129
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Phil Kessel has been unreal this season. Simply could not ask for more out of him, his skating and work ethic make a big impact on the game both on offense and defense. The offense has come against Boston as well.

If you see someone continue to bag Kessel that's your first indication right there that they don't watch the games..

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05-14-2013, 10:57 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
What was worse? My suggestion of Polak, Stewart, Berglund, and Halak all being options(not necessarily part of any package) or the one guy asking for Pietrangelo/Tarasenko, Schwartz, a 1st, and another decent piece???
look...clearly you think asking for any quality piece in return for a top 10 scorer is "worse".

sorry that your 4-5 dman, 2nd line winger with 1.5 good seasons in his career, non-upgrade at centre, and backup goaltender aren't exactly tenting my pants in return for our best player.

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I would think Stewart would be of interest to you guys.
Definitely, but not for Kessel.

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I'd offer Shattenkirk over Polak but you guys need a defensive defenseman from what I can tell. Polak actually played over Shattenkirk on the 2nd pairing in the playoffs. No need to scoff at Polak. He is a physical d-man that is one of the Blues fastest skaters. He is a solid #4-5 d-man.
The Leafs don't need a 4-5 dman, they need a top pairing dman.

And I'm not so sure they wouldn't prefer Shattenkirk out of those two.

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Again, you're gonna lose leverage if you put Kessel on the market signifying you can't re-sign him. Perhaps you get it back in a bidding war but no team is gonna surrender what you probably think you can get for him with only 1 year left on his contract before he is due a 7 million a year contract.

I don't mind if he stays in Toronto. I really hope Kessel continues to be the franchise forward of the Maple Leafs and makes the trade look great for you guys. I would rather he become a Blue, though.
Fantasize away about the Leafs being forced to trade their best player for whatever St. Louis can spare, by all means.

I'd say there's a very slim chance that this all goes to **** and Kessel wants out.

The Leafs have at least a decent team now, and hopefully will have Lupul and Gardiner in the lineup for something approximating a full season for the first time, plus whatever they can add this summer.

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05-14-2013, 10:58 PM
  #131
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Kessel will at least earn $7 million dollars per. He's performed a lot better than Perry who is receiving $8.2 million per. More so, he produced similar to Getlzlaf in the playoffs despite facing a very hard-to-beat team. I am certain that his two-game will develop greatly due to his intelligence and skating ability.

In short, he's our first line centre. Our Giroux, Stamkos, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to work on draws as well. That said, he will not be traded.

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05-14-2013, 11:00 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Really?

John Tavares signed a 6 year $33M deal.

You don't think the two are comparable?
Tavares signed after his entry level, he also signed that contract a year after he got around 65 points. The next year he almost got 80. The Islanders got a steal here.

Kessel will be going complete UFA, he will not get under 7, and that might even be light in the new NHL

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05-14-2013, 11:05 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Swarez View Post
Tavares signed after his entry level, he also signed that contract a year after he got around 65 points. The next year he almost got 80. The Islanders got a steal here.

Kessel will be going complete UFA, he will not get under 7, and that might even be light in the new NHL
Agreed. Isles got a steal on JT and I seriously doubt Phil signs for anything less than 8 years 56 mill.

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05-15-2013, 07:55 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
No one said there weren't issues (though I'm glad you made up an argument again). I don't care what the hockey world thinks of the Leafs. Much like I don't care what people think of me...certainly not throngs of largely mindless troglodytes. Life has far more important things in it than grown men chasing a rubber disk. If people want to make fun of that, who cares? Were YOU on the ice? Were they? When they can carry my jock in real life, perhaps I'll care. Until then, it's just a bunch of people trying to vicariously establish their self worth through something that they have no bearing on. Some of us just choose not to be melodramatic.

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05-15-2013, 08:09 PM
  #135
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Wait, isn't Kessel fat, one dimensional and just an all around bad hockey player? Oh were discussing cap hit? Right.. Leafs are gonna have to pay him top dollar and bust the salary cap because he's just so awesomely amazing.

Sorry for the mix up, the Leaf hating gets so confusing sometimes!

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05-15-2013, 10:12 PM
  #136
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kessel has turned himself into a superstar now IMO

this video is amazing

http://www.youtube.com/

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05-15-2013, 10:32 PM
  #137
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Get him a proper centre and he'll be a 40 goal, 100 pt player, as if finishing top 7 in scoring the last 2 years wasn't impressive enough. Seguin who? What this series showed is how great Kessel is and upstarts like Seguin and Hamilton are incomparable; in fact, Rask almost proved himself to be a habitual choker (having let the Flyers come back a few years ago and this time around almost) in the playoffs if we didn't fell apart at the end of game 7. The future is bright for the Leafs despite those trades.


Last edited by Superstar: 05-15-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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Old
05-16-2013, 05:55 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Really?

John Tavares signed a 6 year $33M deal.

You don't think the two are comparable?
Kessel's last contract was comparable, both signed while RFA.

Kessel's next is as UFA, he'll get(deservedly so) more. When Tavares makes UFA, he will earn more than Kessel.

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05-16-2013, 06:44 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Really?

John Tavares signed a 6 year $33M deal.

You don't think the two are comparable?
these aren't comparables.

Tavares signed that contract right after his Entry Level Contract expired.

Tavares' 6yr/$33m contract is comparable to the 5yr/$27m contract that Kessel will be finishing next year - the contract he also signed right after his Entry Level Contract expired.

Kessel is no longer an RFA - we will have to pay full price to keep him through his UFA years (i.e. $7-7.5m per year).

When Tavares' 2nd contract expires, and he's a 26 year old UFA in 4 years like Kessel will be next year, then the Isles will also have to ante up and pay him market value for his UFA years.

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05-16-2013, 07:47 PM
  #140
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He'll get a 2 million dollar raise, on a lengthy term. The leafs have an extremely healthy cap situation.

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05-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
Really?

John Tavares signed a 6 year $33M deal.

You don't think the two are comparable?
Pro-tip: Don't compare RFA deals and UFA deals.

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05-16-2013, 08:35 PM
  #142
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The following should be added to the thread title:
"Is a beaut, and will be a beast in blue and white for years"

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05-16-2013, 10:47 PM
  #143
Duke Silver
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You guys better brace yourselves, because after crunching the numbers, Phil Kessel is going to get more than $8M/year on his next contract.

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05-16-2013, 11:11 PM
  #144
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You guys better brace yourselves, because after crunching the numbers, Phil Kessel is going to get more than $8M/year on his next contract.
Should he? Probably.

Will he? Hopefully not.

$7-7.5 is probably my ideal dollar range. But basically, MLSE is going to pay this man whatever he wants. Stud.

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05-16-2013, 11:25 PM
  #145
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I'd have no problems giving him max length for 7-8 mil per.
Guy is a total boss!
Trust me, this guy is a winner! He is a huge piece towards bringing the cup here!

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05-16-2013, 11:36 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by OptimusForever View Post
I'd have no problems giving him max length for 7-8 mil per.
Guy is a total boss!
Trust me, this guy is a winner! He is a huge piece towards bringing the cup here!
Kessel is boss, and to think he still doesn't have a #1 C to play with. Goodness, gracious.

Free Kessel, Nonis -- get him a centre!

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05-17-2013, 12:58 AM
  #147
Duke Silver
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Should he? Probably.

Will he? Hopefully not.

$7-7.5 is probably my ideal dollar range. But basically, MLSE is going to pay this man whatever he wants. Stud.
From a pure production standpoint:

- I ran a report to get the top-100 scorers over the last 3 seasons.
- I removed anyone with under 0.8 points per game, as their production doesn't compare with Kessel's.
- I removed anybody who signed their current contract as an RFA (not a good comparable to UFA contracts)
- I removed anyone who signed their current contracts more than 5 years ago, since the cap has changed considerably from then.
- Then I removed cap circumventive contracts because their annual salary values are not reflective of player ability due to backdiving final years.
- Lastly, I removed any contracts signed after the age of 35.

That gave me a list of 13 players: Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Joe Thornton, Jarome Iginla, Mike Ribeiro, Brad Richards, Rick Nash, Chris Kunitz, Patrick Sharp, Alexander Semin, Mikko Koivu.

I took these players' salaries and divided by the 82-game paces of their production, to get a $/point value. Averaged these $/point values and multiplied them by Kessel's point-production this season over 82 games: 88 points.

$7.9M. Factor in the fact that his agent holds all the cards in this negotiation and we're looking at north of $8M.

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05-17-2013, 01:11 AM
  #148
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That's some good work there buddy! Really excited to see how kessels game develops over the next few years!

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05-17-2013, 03:39 AM
  #149
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Kessel is boss, and to think he still doesn't have a #1 C to play with. Goodness, gracious.

Free Kessel, Nonis -- get him a centre!
I really doubt we'll see such a trade. It'd be too expensive and those in the UFA are clearly too old. Nonis is looking for someone young and I expect the forward core to remain the same.

Let's be realistic. We're going to have a very heavy forward core with this #1C as well. In other words, it won't be financially sustainable at all. Instead, I suggest using Colborne, Grabovski, Kadri, or drafting one instead.

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05-17-2013, 09:02 AM
  #150
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Kessel's playoff performance increased his value in contract, and the Leafs desire to retain him, because of erasing his personal demons proving he can play effectively against a big physical Bruins team that has had his number in the past.

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