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Old
05-13-2013, 07:32 AM
  #1
Taranis_24
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CAPS Playoff penalty history

Just thought I would look at the last 6 years of playoff history involving the CAPS and their PP/PK numbers. Since 2008 the CAPS have been in 9 Series. In those series only did the CAPS did the CAPS have more PP than PK’s. 2011 VS TB (4 Games – 1 more PP than TB). 2010 VS MTL (7 Games 2 more PP than MTL) and 2009 VS NYR (7 games – 6 more PP than NYR). The CAPS lost 2 of those 3 series. Not taking into account actual minutes on PP and/or looking at 5 on 3 situations. Starting with current and working back to 2008.
Games More Games Less Games Same (Opponent) PP Descrpancies
1 5 0 Rangers (2013) 14 Less
2 5 0 Bruins (2012) 4 Less
0 4 3 Rangers (2012) 4 Less
1 3 1 Rangers (2011) 6 Less
3 1 0 Lightning (2011) 1 more
3 1 3 Canadians (2010) 2 more
4 2 1 Rangers (2009) 6 more
0 5 2 Penguins (2009) 15 Less
2 2 3 Flyers (2008) 1 Less

16 28 13 Total 35 Less

Total 57 playoff games since 2008. Only 16 of those did the CAPS have at least one PP more than the opponent. 13 the PP count was even with the opponent and in 28 of those the opponent had at least one PP more than the CAPS. Since 2008 CAPS playoff opponents have had 35 more PP’s than the CAPS. Of course these numbers are really skewed with the discrepancies of Rangers 2013 and the Penguin series in 2009.

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05-13-2013, 07:39 AM
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BobRouse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranis_24 View Post
Of course these numbers are really skewed with the discrepancies of Rangers 2013 and the Penguin series in 2009.
I certainly didn't like that Pens series and the way it was officiated. However I could buy it since they really did have the territorial advantage and were the better team. Still bogus tho.

This one however...its beyond ugly. Caps are dominating 5 on 5 for the majority of these games. Out of all the periods played I could say the Rangers played better 5 on 5 in just a few and most likely b/c the Caps were tired from all the PK.

How does a team drive puck possession like the Caps and still end up on such a short end? One of the worst officiated series I have ever seen in my life.

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05-13-2013, 07:53 AM
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RandyHolt
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Is anyone else besides me not liking all the penalties called in the modern playoff game?

Back in the 1980's and 90's, the refs largely buried their whistles and took themselves out of the game. As far as I know, no one complained except Lemieux, and fans were entertained by witnessing hockey not limited by players fear of ticky tack calls. Including being witness to games of a lifetime, 4OTs etc.

It was nice to be witness to an era that allowed the players to decide the games. And no, the refs would call penalties when truly warranted.

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05-13-2013, 09:01 AM
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Stewie G
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Is anyone else besides me not liking all the penalties called in the modern playoff game?

Back in the 1980's and 90's, the refs largely buried their whistles and took themselves out of the game. As far as I know, no one complained except Lemieux, and fans were entertained by witnessing hockey not limited by players fear of ticky tack calls. Including being witness to games of a lifetime, 4OTs etc.

It was nice to be witness to an era that allowed the players to decide the games. And no, the refs would call penalties when truly warranted.
Most of the Western Conference games that I watched were like that. Only really blatant stuff was called. Half of the penalties in this series wouldn't have been called.

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05-13-2013, 09:24 AM
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tycoonheart
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We need to look past the conspiracies and figure out why these group of guys are so prone to taking penalties. Its a trend at this point.

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05-13-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Is anyone else besides me not liking all the penalties called in the modern playoff game?

Back in the 1980's and 90's, the refs largely buried their whistles and took themselves out of the game. As far as I know, no one complained except Lemieux, and fans were entertained by witnessing hockey not limited by players fear of ticky tack calls. Including being witness to games of a lifetime, 4OTs etc.

It was nice to be witness to an era that allowed the players to decide the games. And no, the refs would call penalties when truly warranted.
First, yes, it's annoying even for me, and I started watching the NHL regularly after the lockout.
Second, the biggest thing is that a player doesn't know if he'll get a penalty for a foul. This reffing style leads to much more mistakes and makes a referee's job a lot more difficult, increases the pressure etc.

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05-13-2013, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
We need to look past the conspiracies and figure out why these group of guys are so prone to taking penalties. Its a trend at this point.
Tycoon

With all due respect you have to look at the penalties we took. Lets look at last night as its been a microcosm of the series:

1. Hillen gets chicken wing. Then Callahan follows up with high crosscheck. Hillen, rightfully standing up form himself, shoves Callahan in the chest. Callahan snaps head back like he was shot.

2. Ward penalty on Dorsett...doesn't need explaining. Clean play.

3. Green at that point was frustrated by refs. How could they miss slewfoot? Then he DID get Dorsett but also Dorsett snapped his head back like he was shot.

4. Fehr got Brassard in the chest with a reverse hit. The Rangers do these reverse hits all the time. The reverse elbow. Fehr got him square in the chest and Brassard, on cue, snaps head back like he was shot.

I don't think this is under control of the Caps. The Rangers are selling penalties and the refs are eagerly buying.

When Caps sell penalties (Ovie in game 3) they are ridiculed across the league.

You suggest that this is something the Caps can control. The only way the Caps can combat this is to snap their heads back too and sell calls. The NHL will let it devolve into a soccer match of diving and faking. Really thats the only choice the Caps have.

The Caps are getting called for phantom penalties.

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05-13-2013, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
We need to look past the conspiracies and figure out why these group of guys are so prone to taking penalties. Its a trend at this point.
I don't know about you but I just go with the league hates us theory and call it a day.

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05-13-2013, 09:39 AM
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stanleycaps98
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Ultimately, it is about consistency. Both teams have committed infractions, and probably the Caps have committed more. However, it is clear that the impartial adjudication in zebra stripes are not applying consistency across the calls. That creates the disparity in play and it impacts the game.

It is one thing to call the too many men and puck over the glass/dog penalties - they aren't so subjective, well, except when one team has 9 players on the ice and 4 of them are going off to their bench, but I digress...

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05-13-2013, 09:39 AM
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tycoonheart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Tycoon

With all due respect you have to look at the penalties we took. Lets look at last night as its been a microcosm of the series:

1. Hillen gets chicken wing. Then Callahan follows up with high crosscheck. Hillen, rightfully standing up form himself, shoves Callahan in the chest. Callahan snaps head back like he was shot.

2. Ward penalty on Dorsett...doesn't need explaining. Clean play.

3. Green at that point was frustrated by refs. How could they miss slewfoot? Then he DID get Dorsett but also Dorsett snapped his head back like he was shot.

4. Fehr got Brassard in the chest with a reverse hit. The Rangers do these reverse hits all the time. The reverse elbow. Fehr got him square in the chest and Brassard, on cue, snaps head back like he was shot.

I don't think this is under control of the Caps. The Rangers are selling penalties and the refs are eagerly buying.

When Caps sell penalties (Ovie in game 3) they are ridiculed across the league.

You suggest that this is something the Caps can control. The only way the Caps can combat this is to snap their heads back too and sell calls. The NHL will let it devolve into a soccer match of diving and faking. Really thats the only choice the Caps have.

The Caps are getting called for phantom penalties.
Its hard to disagree with your post. All true.

I'm just so tired of having to point to the refs year in and year out.

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05-13-2013, 09:40 AM
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I do have to say, Oates appears to not preach discipline among his players. Or if they talk about it, few are listening.

The pucks over the glass continues to be in play. Not selling penalties, and retaliating instead. We can retaliate, but it needs to be more controlled. Let them know, but don't do anything that will draw a Rangels Headsnap ©

Rangels Pregame Stretching Tabloid Leak

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05-13-2013, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
We need to look past the conspiracies and figure out why these group of guys are so prone to taking penalties. Its a trend at this point.
Since 2008 or 2009 a coach and almost all players have changed. With Laich not playing, the only players who were on 09 team still with the Caps are Fehr, Green, Backstrom and Ovechkin.

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05-13-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Its hard to disagree with your post. All true.

I'm just so tired of having to point to the refs year in and year out.
I think the only playoffs where the balance was near as bad as this was the Pens in 09 and that pales in comparison.

Sure we've had some tough breaks for goalie interference/non (Philly/Monty) but overall it was just one game..one moment.

This has gone on for 4 games and the ones at MSG have been particulary bad.

I've not seen anything like this. Not even the Pens series. We are driving 5 on 5 play which usually leads to the upper hand in PPs.

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05-13-2013, 10:21 AM
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BobRouse
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Do you guys remember this?

I remember the controversy immediately following this game and lots of it was based on silly "conspiracy" theories:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3436401

"Tim gave information on how top executives of the NBA sought to manipulate games using referees to boost ticket sales and television ratings," the letter reads. "He also described how nepotism played a far greater role than qualifications in a number of referee hirings."

• "Tim explained the league officials would tell referees that they should withhold calling technical fouls on certain star players because doing so would hurt ticket sales and television ratings," the letter adds. "As an example, Tim explained how there were times when a referee supervisor would tell referees that NBA Executive X did not want them to call technical fouls on star players or remove them from the game. In January 2000, Referee D went against these instructions and elected a star player in the first quarter of the game. Referee D later was privately reprimanded by the league for that ejection."

• In addition to game-altering allegations, Donaghy's letter claims that many officials carry on "relationships" with team executives, coaches and players that violate their NBA contracts. For example, it said, referees broke NBA rules by hitting up players for autographs, socializing with coaches, and accepting meals and merchandise from teams.

"Tim described one referee's use of a team's practice facility to exercise and another's frequent tennis matches with a team's coach," the letter says.

• The letter also alleges that during a 2005 playoff series, "Team 3 lost the first two games in the series and Team 3's Owner complained to NBA officials. Team 3's Owner alleged that referees were letting a Team 4 player get away with illegal screens. NBA Executive Y told Referee Supervisor Z that the referees for that game were to enforce the screening rules strictly against that Team 4 player. Referee Supervisor Z informed the referees about his instructions. As an alternate referee for that game, Tim also received these instructions."

During the 2005 postseason, Mavs owner Mark Cuban did in fact complain after his team lost to the Houston Rockets in the first two games of their series, and Dallas went on to beat Houston in seven games. Jeff Van Gundy, then the coach of the Rockets, said that an NBA official had told him about the league's plan to closely monitor moving screens by Yao Ming, and Van Gundy was ultimately fined $100,000 for his comments regarding the situation. Van Gundy later backed off his comments.



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05-13-2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I think the only playoffs where the balance was near as bad as this was the Pens in 09 and that pales in comparison.

Sure we've had some tough breaks for goalie interference/non (Philly/Monty) but overall it was just one game..one moment.

This has gone on for 4 games and the ones at MSG have been particulary bad.

I've not seen anything like this. Not even the Pens series. We are driving 5 on 5 play which usually leads to the upper hand in PPs.

which is so funny, inronically speaking, when one looks back to the bettguin series. the counter there was they were controlling 5x5 play, and thus the reason for all the penalties against the caps.

evidently doors do swing both ways, when it comes to officiating.

OTOH backstrom did get away with a stupifyingly blatant holding the stick last night. i could not believe that didnt get called.

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05-13-2013, 11:28 AM
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which is so funny, inronically speaking, when one looks back to the bettguin series. the counter there was they were controlling 5x5 play, and thus the reason for all the penalties against the caps.

evidently doors do swing both ways, when it comes to officiating.

OTOH backstrom did get away with a stupifyingly blatant holding the stick last night. i could not believe that didnt get called.
Now its that the Ranger's are more "disciplined" (reality is they are flopping and head bobbing their way into dubious calls)

This is clearly worse than the Pens series and that one was bad in its own right.

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05-13-2013, 11:36 AM
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Now its that the Ranger's are more "disciplined" (reality is they are flopping and head bobbing their way into dubious calls)

This is clearly worse than the Pens series and that one was bad in its own right.
that was just horrendous, and even the most ardent anti conspiracy theorists have to take notice, not just the caps series, but the entirety of the bettguins playoff run.

i'm trying to put on my conspiracy beanie and think what might be the leagues m.o. here.....one would think, from a marketing/promo angle, what could be better than a crosby - fresh out of the ICU and tearing it up vs. a seemingly rejuvenated ovechkin in the conf finals?

the rags are a boring team with, essentially, 1 "star" in lundquist. nash, to me at least, is ho-hum. they are an orig 6, now with the loafs finally back in along with the broons...there is that angle to promote. but w/the cry baby habs out and either of Bs/loafs soon to be gone....

i guess maybe the league is ensuring the conf finals dont end up being caps/sens? LOL

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05-13-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
that was just horrendous, and even the most ardent anti conspiracy theorists have to take notice, not just the caps series, but the entirety of the bettguins playoff run.

i'm trying to put on my conspiracy beanie and think what might be the leagues m.o. here.....one would think, from a marketing/promo angle, what could be better than a crosby - fresh out of the ICU and tearing it up vs. a seemingly rejuvenated ovechkin in the conf finals?

the rags are a boring team with, essentially, 1 "star" in lundquist. nash, to me at least, is ho-hum. they are an orig 6, now with the loafs finally back in along with the broons...there is that angle to promote. but w/the cry baby habs out and either of Bs/loafs soon to be gone....

i guess maybe the league is ensuring the conf finals dont end up being caps/sens? LOL
The excellent conspiracy theorist in me would say that a NY Market team is an appealing prize considering this latest lockout. Also:

I just get the sense from watching broadcasts and how McGuire gushes over certain Rangers.

You have a former Ranger player in Shanahan doling out suspensions and the Rangers suffer little in that regard.

You have the league VP who grew up a Ranger fan.

You have the league offices in NY.

Something just doesn't add up to me this series. Is a conspiracy likely? Probably not. But I didn't really think there was one in the NBA in 2002 either. I just thought it was more the refs being dumb or have Laker bias.

Where there is smoke their is often fire. The smoke here is becoming thick...

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05-13-2013, 01:02 PM
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May had a twitter post last night got me doing a little snooping and it's really hard to ignore some the numbers. Caps amassed 26 more penalties then the Rangers for an average of .5 more penalties per game then the Rangers during the regular season. Statistically speaking, Rangers should have 3 less penalties then the Caps through 6 games.

Games 1 & 2:
Rangers: 10 penalties
Caps: 10 penalties

Pretty close to the seasonal average. (Sorry I'm skipping around between penalties/PP, but I'm at work and can only do so much research.)

Games 3-6 Total:
Rangers: 19 PP
Caps: 7 PP

Games 3, 4 & 6 (@ MSG):
Rangers: 15 pp
Caps: 5 pp

Starts to not add up. May also alluded to the lack of calls from a prior game in the series that had the same crew as game 6. If someone can dig into that, or I'll take a better look tonight at home.

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05-13-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Tycoon

With all due respect you have to look at the penalties we took. Lets look at last night as its been a microcosm of the series:

1. Hillen gets chicken wing. Then Callahan follows up with high crosscheck. Hillen, rightfully standing up form himself, shoves Callahan in the chest. Callahan snaps head back like he was shot.

2. Ward penalty on Dorsett...doesn't need explaining. Clean play.

3. Green at that point was frustrated by refs. How could they miss slewfoot? Then he DID get Dorsett but also Dorsett snapped his head back like he was shot.

4. Fehr got Brassard in the chest with a reverse hit. The Rangers do these reverse hits all the time. The reverse elbow. Fehr got him square in the chest and Brassard, on cue, snaps head back like he was shot.

I don't think this is under control of the Caps. The Rangers are selling penalties and the refs are eagerly buying.

When Caps sell penalties (Ovie in game 3) they are ridiculed across the league.

You suggest that this is something the Caps can control. The only way the Caps can combat this is to snap their heads back too and sell calls. The NHL will let it devolve into a soccer match of diving and faking. Really thats the only choice the Caps have.

The Caps are getting called for phantom penalties.

welcome to Dirty Rangers, just hope rooney doesn't get a game

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05-13-2013, 01:31 PM
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05-13-2013, 01:37 PM
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holy crap!?

i dont recall seeing that reply last night on the csn broadcast?

thats bourque/backstrom all over again, only w/o hillen going down.

no wonder he was so pissed going into the box.

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05-13-2013, 01:40 PM
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stanleycaps98
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Holy no call, Batman.

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05-13-2013, 01:43 PM
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Somebody really needs to drop Callahan. I'm looking at you, Mr. Oleksy.

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05-13-2013, 01:45 PM
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welcome to Dirty Rangers, just hope rooney doesn't get a game
Rooney is reffing Game 7.

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