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Old
06-17-2013, 01:14 PM
  #876
AirBriere48
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
And if Briere wants 5 for 30mil?
What about 25m for 5?

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06-17-2013, 01:17 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
05-06 had two strong defensive forwards on every line but Kotalik-Connolly-Max
Not entirely accurate when you consider the lines were primarily:

Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Kotalik-Drury-Grier
Vanek-Roy/Connolly-Afinogenov
Peters/Mair-Gaustad-Pominville

Only the bold-faced players could be considered "strong defensive forwards".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttcminaker View Post
I would love to see Briere back here after his buyout. His leadership helped mould Giroux and Couts in Philly and would be huge for all the young players on this roster. If he rekindles some chemistry with Leino and helps the PP then that is gravy. It comes down to at this point in his career does he want to play on a contender or be closer to his family.
I can definitely see a Briere return being considered by the Sabres and him if the price is right - not only for the leadership/mentoring you referenced but because Black and Pegula no doubt know there's some ill-will/frustration amongst their fans with their results and decisions to date. Right or wrong, bringing back a popular player with name recognition would definitely be a PR olive branch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
And if Briere wants 5 for 30mil?
At his age (35), I doubt any team will give him a 5 year term unless the cap hit is really small. Briere won't get the double-whammy (dollars and term) - he'll have to choose whether to seek a raise or ask for term to get him to retirement IMO.

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06-17-2013, 01:22 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
And if Briere wants 5 for 30mil?
He's not getting anything close to that from anyone.


Last edited by ROR: 06-17-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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06-17-2013, 01:26 PM
  #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
Not entirely accurate when you consider the lines were primarily:

Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Kotalik-Drury-Grier
Vanek-Roy/Connolly-Afinogenov
Peters/Mair-Gaustad-Pominville

Only the bold-faced players could be considered "strong defensive forwards".
It might even be generous to attribute strong defensive play to Gaustad and Pominville that early in their careers.

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06-17-2013, 01:32 PM
  #880
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
At his age (35), I doubt any team will give him a 5 year term unless the cap hit is really small. Briere won't get the double-whammy (dollars and term) - he'll have to choose whether to seek a raise or ask for term to get him to retirement IMO.
Ok taking it one step at a time....

He's 35 now, 36 when the season starts. I think some team will sign him for 5 years. 6 or 7 most likely not, unless it's added years to bring the cap hit down a little.

Small cap hit. Ok what exactly is a small cap hit? 1 mil? 2mil? I think Briere will demand and get much more than that. I'm not putting my foot down and claiming "he will get 5 or 6 mil per for 5 years!" But I don't think Briere will be a "small cap hit". I think he'll be a significant hit. Not huge or crippling, but not small either

Time will tell.

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06-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #881
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If Regier managed to move up for Mackinnon or Barkov without giving up Hodgson or Grigorenko (unlikely), would you flip Hodgson or Grigorenko for a young defenseman on a defensively-rich team?

For instance, say Regier moves no. 8 and Sekera for no. 5, no. 5 and a couple more picks for no. 3 and a cap dump, and no. 3, no. 16 and a good prospect for no. 1.

Would you trade Hodgson for, say, Gormley?

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06-17-2013, 02:50 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
If Regier managed to move up for Mackinnon or Barkov without giving up Hodgson or Grigorenko (unlikely), would you flip Hodgson or Grigorenko for a young defenseman on a defensively-rich team?

For instance, say Regier moves no. 8 and Sekera for no. 5, no. 5 and a couple more picks for no. 3 and a cap dump, and no. 3, no. 16 and a good prospect for no. 1.

Would you trade Hodgson for, say, Gormley?
Yes but Id want someone young but better established or someone established but with lots of good years ahead of them. The best thing for Myers/Pysyk/mcNabb/McCabe/Weber to an extent is to have a GOOD veteran pressence around i.e not leopold.

Idk what names would meet this criteria perhaps Yandle instead of Gormley? Too lazy to look up Yandle contract status and length but this team is gonna be in desperate need of some veterans presences and as much as I like Ehrhoff he doesn't strike me as an overly vocal leader on the ice.

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06-17-2013, 02:53 PM
  #883
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I highly doubt Briere is coming back here. I believe he is recently divorced and his sons are all going to school in NJ. The big allure of staying in Buffalo was that his family set up roots there.

My bet is he stays in the tri-state area. NJ, NYR, NYI all could make sense for him.

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06-17-2013, 02:58 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
I highly doubt Briere is coming back here. I believe he is recently divorced and his sons are all going to school in NJ. The big allure of staying in Buffalo was that his family set up roots there.

My bet is he stays in the tri-state area. NJ, NYR, NYI all could make sense for him.
I think you are 100% correct

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06-17-2013, 03:17 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by AirBriere48 View Post
What about 25m for 5?

Briere is not leaving the Tri State area. He has stated emphatically that he wants to be near his kids in Philly.
If he miraculously does not have a home come mid July than maybe we offer him a couple mil for a year.
In the meantime we should be working on how topick up additional first rounders. Like Vanek to Washington for #23 and a prospect or Vanek to Calgary for #22 and a prospect. Even Columbus at 14 is a possibility.
Miller won't get you a first rounder but maybe another 2nd rounder and a prospect
If we trade for and buy out DiPietro that could be another first rounder at 15, plus a top prospect.
Maybe Calgary would send us #22 for Stafford and a 2nd or Sekera and a 3rd? Maybe Columbus takes one of those deals for #19.
We could quite possibly have 5 first rounders come draft day. That puts us in a great position to draft 5 great prospects.

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06-17-2013, 03:25 PM
  #886
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Latest train of thought: (going to suck in 13 days, I do love speculation)

Pre-Draft:
(car)8,McNabb,2nd-2014 for 5 //Carolina gets one of our top d-prospects, who can play next year, and a 2nd rounder next year to boot. If they want ristol/nurse, one of the them, or both, will definitely be available at 8.
(tbl)5,38,69 for 3,malone //Tampa grabs 2 high picks to add to their current total, 6. They also relieve some cap stress by giving us Malone. If they want Nichushkin, and the top-4 ahead of them are now col,fla,buf,nsh, they'll get him.
(col)3,Miller,16,2nd-2014 for 1 //We move a mid-first in a deep draft, and a Vezina goaltender still in his prime, to move 2 spots. Colorado gets a very-good pick at 16, a definite upgrade at goalie, a 2nd next year, and still pick one of the top-3.
Draft:
(wsh)Stafford,52 for 24,54 //Washington appears to be all in on their current build. They still need more scoring outside Ovy. Sell them Drew, for a first and swapping seconds.
1-mackinnon 24-defense 54-wing
129-defense 130-defense 146-wing 159-wing 189-defense
//focus on size,grit,two-way play

Offseason:
(bos)Gerbe for 5th-2014 //Gerbe's got the heart, but just can't play on this team. We need to be bigger.
Buyout Leino //This is a consequence of the Malone pickup, and to be honest, I've rather have Malone.
sign: weiss 3y16mil | lydman 3y7mil //Overpay Weiss to secure a 3rd-line vet-center.
hodgson 3y10.5mil | tropp 3y4mil | hackett 2y 4mil
flynn 3y4mil | weber 4y 6mil | enroth 3y 8mil


58.3/64.8 (rough estimation)
vanek-hodgson-tropp
ennis-weiss-malone
foligno-porter-flynn
ott-larsson-kaleta
scott [armia,mackinnon,girgensons,grigorenko,catenacci,ke a]
ehrhoff-myers
sekera-lydman
weber-pysyk
ruhwedhl [leduc,mccabe]
enroth
hackett [makarov,ullmark]

//left grigs and mac in the q, both (mac,specifically) could crack the roster and push porter to the ahl. same for armia and flynn.
//defense needs work, but securing mac and keeping pretty much everyone, I'm content.

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Old
06-17-2013, 03:41 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Dunkster19 View Post
Briere is not leaving the Tri State area. He has stated emphatically that he wants to be near his kids in Philly.
If he miraculously does not have a home come mid July than maybe we offer him a couple mil for a year.
In the meantime we should be working on how topick up additional first rounders. Like Vanek to Washington for #23 and a prospect or Vanek to Calgary for #22 and a prospect. Even Columbus at 14 is a possibility.
Miller won't get you a first rounder but maybe another 2nd rounder and a prospect
If we trade for and buy out DiPietro that could be another first rounder at 15, plus a top prospect.
Maybe Calgary would send us #22 for Stafford and a 2nd or Sekera and a 3rd? Maybe Columbus takes one of those deals for #19.
We could quite possibly have 5 first rounders come draft day. That puts us in a great position to draft 5 great prospects.
Yeah, Vanek for a pick in the 20s is terrible and I would laugh uncontrollably if that's all Regier got. Jordan Staal got a top 10 pick and a good young 3rd line center. Vanek is better then Staal and its not even ****ing close. Staal has never scored more then 50 points (which Vanek has done every year except his rookie season and this lockout year) and not to mention Staal had the luxury of playing being the 2 best players in the game. His first year in Carolina proved his defensive game was vastly overrated and he is no more then a 2nd liner at best, while Vanek is a legit 1st line elite goal scorer.

Vanek for an elite prospect or no deal, I'd rather keep him this season and lose him for nothing then give him away for a ****** late 1st round pick. Vanek will return a kings ransom and more then Pominville ill bet whatever on it.

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06-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Yeah, Vanek for a pick in the 20s is terrible and I would laugh uncontrollably if that's all Regier got. Jordan Staal got a top 10 pick and a good young 3rd line center. Vanek is better then Staal and its not even ****ing close. Staal has never scored more then 50 points (which Vanek has done every year except his rookie season and this lockout year) and not to mention Staal had the luxury of playing being the 2 best players in the game. His first year in Carolina proved his defensive game was vastly overrated and he is no more then a 2nd liner at best, while Vanek is a legit 1st line elite goal scorer.

Vanek for an elite prospect or no deal, I'd rather keep him this season and lose him for nothing then give him away for a ****** late 1st round pick. Vanek will return a kings ransom and more then Pominville ill bet whatever on it.
I wish you'd stop making the Staal comparison, it's unbearably stupid, and you do it at least once a day.

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06-17-2013, 03:46 PM
  #889
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Tampa needs NHLers that would push them into the playoffs. With that pick they can get at least 1 and IMO should be considered a prereq from TBs perspective.

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06-17-2013, 04:05 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Yeah, Vanek for a pick in the 20s is terrible and I would laugh uncontrollably if that's all Regier got. Jordan Staal got a top 10 pick and a good young 3rd line center. Vanek is better thuen Staal and its not even ****ing close. Staal has never scored more then 50 points (which Vanek has done every year except his rookie season and this lockout year) and not to mention Staal had the luxury of playing being the 2 best players in the game. His first year in Carolina proved his defensive game was vastly overrated and he is no more then a 2nd liner at best, while Vanek is a legit 1st line elite goal scorer.

Vanek for an elite prospect or no deal, I'd rather keep him this season and lose him for nothing then give him away for a ****** late 1st round pick. Vanek will return a kings ransom and more then Pominville ill bet whatever on it.
What was Derek Roy's trade value again?

Vanek will return a bit less than what Nash did. No elite prospects.

And save the Vanek stats that you've religiously copied and pasted on this board of late. He has one year left on his contract and no team is paying a king's ransom for that.

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06-17-2013, 04:13 PM
  #891
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No teams paying a kings random for a purely offensive player that is never in the discussion for a scoring title at the end of a season regardless of term remaining. It's just not the valuable when you have to play teams like Chi, La, and Bos who can play shutdown D and still have good to great scorers on the ice.

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06-17-2013, 04:25 PM
  #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
It might even be generous to attribute strong defensive play to Gaustad and Pominville that early in their careers.
Valid point. That leaves Hecht, Drury and Grier to further counter the point by strucked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
He's 35 now, 36 when the season starts. I think some team will sign him for 5 years. 6 or 7 most likely not, unless it's added years to bring the cap hit down a little.

Small cap hit. Ok what exactly is a small cap hit? 1 mil? 2mil? I think Briere will demand and get much more than that. I'm not putting my foot down and claiming "he will get 5 or 6 mil per for 5 years!" But I don't think Briere will be a "small cap hit". I think he'll be a significant hit. Not huge or crippling, but not small either

Time will tell.
We've seen it at trade deadlines and in last year's free agency - teams are not throwing boatloads of money and long term deals to players in their 30s. I have no doubt that some teams will offer him the $5M - 6M he may want but it's not going to be on a long-term deal unless the team is super desperate to make a splash (i.e. NYI, CBJ, EDM).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
If Regier managed to move up for Mackinnon or Barkov without giving up Hodgson or Grigorenko (unlikely), would you flip Hodgson or Grigorenko for a young defenseman on a defensively-rich team?
I would lean towards "yes" - although Ennis' regression suddenly makes the center position less impressive than it was last summer. Still, if Girgensons projects as a center instead of winger, it'd be worth the gamble IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Tampa needs NHLers that would push them into the playoffs. With that pick they can get at least 1 and IMO should be considered a prereq from TBs perspective.
Very true - but with their cap space issues caused by all of the veterans they have now, they'll need any acquired NHL players to be on cheap ($2M or less) contracts unless they buy out Lecavalier, Malone or Ohlund (assuming his LTIR ends).

Realistically, I think the Sabres have the best shot at trading for the 3rd or 5th picks, adding a young player (i.e. Ennis or Foligno) with their 8th to Tampa or adding Sekera to their 8th to Carolina.

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06-17-2013, 04:31 PM
  #893
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[QUOTE=Realistically, I think the Sabres have the best shot at trading for the 3rd or 5th picks, adding a young player (i.e. Ennis or Foligno) with their 8th to Tampa or adding Sekera to their 8th to Carolina.[/QUOTE]

Id take malone off their hands for abit...his contract gradually deflated and if we arent gonna win many games or score many goals I'd at least like to yield a chippy entertaining team lol

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06-17-2013, 04:43 PM
  #894
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Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Id take malone off their hands for abit...his contract gradually deflated and if we arent gonna win many games or score many goals I'd at least like to yield a chippy entertaining team lol
I proposed earlier in the thread Ennis, Adam and the 8th for Malone and the 3rd - with the Sabres even absorbing half of Ennis' salary. I would think that a deal that removes an injury-prone older winger on a tough contract and replaces him with two young and inexpensive wingers with NHL experience is a win Yzerman might take to slide down only 5 spots. As for the Sabres, even if they can't get Jones and MacKinnon with trading the 3rd to COL/FLA, adding Barkov or Drouin would be an upgrade over losing Ennis and Adam. Malone may or may not be useful at NHL level but at worst, could be waived or demoted.

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06-17-2013, 04:49 PM
  #895
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I proposed earlier in the thread Ennis, Adam and the 8th for Malone and the 3rd - with the Sabres even absorbing half of Ennis' salary. I would think that a deal that removes an injury-prone older winger on a tough contract and replaces him with two young and inexpensive wingers with NHL experience is a win Yzerman might take to slide down only 5 spots. As for the Sabres, even if they can't get Jones and MacKinnon with trading the 3rd to COL/FLA, adding Barkov or Drouin would be an upgrade over losing Ennis and Adam. Malone may or may not be useful at NHL level but at worst, could be waived or demoted.
I love Ennis and what he brings to the table for our team-more specifically being the only fleet footed forward we have lol and I cringe at the thought of our top6 wing depth with ennis and potentially vanek gone this year...

That being said I'd do that trade everyday of the week and take Drouin/Barkov and still nab a decent player at 16 and call it a draft. If someone would take a 2nd and our 16 and let us trade down to get a guy like Zadorov I'd come away from the 30th a happy camper.

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06-17-2013, 05:02 PM
  #896
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I love Ennis and what he brings to the table for our team-more specifically being the only fleet footed forward we have lol and I cringe at the thought of our top6 wing depth with ennis and potentially vanek gone this year.
To borrow from one of Jame's quotes, this team has no need for dipsy-doodlers. Ennis is the poster boy for the Sabres' team: small, soft and non-committal. He definitely should be one of the assets Regier is shopping to improve the team IMO.

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06-17-2013, 05:14 PM
  #897
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
To borrow from one of Jame's quotes, this team has no need for dipsy-doodlers. Ennis is the poster boy for the Sabres' team: small, soft and non-committal. He definitely should be one of the assets Regier is shopping to improve the team IMO.
That's quite the blanket statement. I don't consider Ennis soft at all, Ennis is actually a very good hitter for his size and is always seen mixing it up after the whistle.

He kind of reminds me of a slightly more skilled less Kaleta like Marchand. Great hands, good skater, offensive threat who can get under your skin and play above his size. He's really nothing like what you described.

They just need to get some meat on his bones and I'll think he'll be a very good player on a good team. The only issue he has right now is he's just too light (Marchand weighs 183 lbs at 5'9" and Ennis 167).

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06-17-2013, 05:18 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
That's quite the blanket statement. I don't consider Ennis soft at all, Ennis is actually a very good hitter for his size and is always seen mixing it up after the whistle.

He kind of reminds me of a slightly more skilled less Kaleta like Marchand. Great hands, good skater, offensive threat who can get under your skin and play above his size.
Are we talking about Tyler Ennis here? He rarely, if ever, get under anybody's skin and he doesn't play big like Marchand. The only time I remember Ennis getting into it with anybody was Henrique and that was because Ennis took a shot long after overtime ended. He plays nothing like Marchand.


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06-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #899
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Are we talking about Tyler Ennis here? He rarely, if ever, get under anybody's skin and he doesn't play big. The only time I remember Ennis getting into it with anybody was Henrique and that was because Ennis took a shot long after overtime ended. He plays nothing like Marchand.
You have a pretty bad memory

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06-17-2013, 05:29 PM
  #900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
To borrow from one of Jame's quotes, this team has no need for dipsy-doodlers. Ennis is the poster boy for the Sabres' team: small, soft and non-committal. He definitely should be one of the assets Regier is shopping to improve the team IMO.
We have literally one player on this team that can play that way. Maybe the fact that he stands out in your mind as defining what this team is about says a lot more about the rest of the teams make-up, ie, all of the non dipsy-doodlers.

It's funny that we pin the teams problems on our fast, skilled player, but when we generalize what the problems with the team are, it's slow and not skilled enough.

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