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Old
05-20-2013, 01:42 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I don't see how/why buffalo signs hm if they trade Vanek and Miller.
They'd break out the checkbook, sell him on the rebuild and his prominent role in it, and he gets icetime and cash he wouldn't in Detroit.

Quote:
The Sabres salary will be around the floor if both are dealt which is why thy can't buyout Leino this summer.
Between NHL salary coming back and retained salary transactions, I doubt they actually clear 13 million in cap space.

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I'd would rather try and target a player who was 25-27.
So would I, but those cost assets.

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I want the salary as low as possible and then look to make moves in 2014.
If the team sucks, why do any of them sign a year later? Especially when it would mean another year of kids being forced to play roles they can't handle with no backup, which must do wonders for their trade value and our position in the vicious cycle of title contention.

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The only players id sgn as UFAs are cheaper 2-3 yr contract around $2M or so per for a Vet Dman and a 3rd/4th line Center.
Fair, but that's trading two top line players without adding any competent placeholders. Hodgson's supposed to get better offensively playing with Ennis and Stafford against Bergeron and Chara?

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05-20-2013, 01:47 AM
  #177
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The nyi brass don't mind having DiPietro on the books. It helps them reach the cap floor. I swear I repeat this every week but some schmo want to think Miller is worth something there.

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05-20-2013, 07:39 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
The nyi brass don't mind having DiPietro on the books. It helps them reach the cap floor. I swear I repeat this every week but some schmo want to think Miller is worth something there.
I apologize that you had to repeat it. . . again. Is there something I can do to repay you for your time?

And now being serious, this is a discussion board. Generally, discussions work best when people throw out ideas, both good, bad, or in between. Then people discuss. The "HF board authorities" that judge people's ideas, or lament how "stupid" other people can be with their ideas, is really foolish.

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05-20-2013, 07:51 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
The nyi brass don't mind having DiPietro on the books. It helps them reach the cap floor. I swear I repeat this every week but some schmo want to think Miller is worth something there.
They may not care about his salary, but it certainly isn't because it helps the Isles reach the cap floor. DiPietro's salary is buried in the minors.

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05-20-2013, 08:22 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
They may not care about his salary, but it certainly isn't because it helps the Isles reach the cap floor. DiPietro's salary is buried in the minors.
New CBA though. Putting a player in the AHL doesn't make their cap hit disappear anymore.

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05-20-2013, 08:29 AM
  #181
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New CBA though. Putting a player in the AHL doesn't make their cap hit disappear anymore.
Really? I hadn't heard that.

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05-20-2013, 08:30 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
They may not care about his salary, but it certainly isn't because it helps the Isles reach the cap floor. DiPietro's salary is buried in the minors.
New CBA doesn't allow teams to completely "bury" a one-way contract in the minors. Dipietro's contract(minus about 800,000 for a team to fill his roster spot) still counts against the cap. I imagine DiPietro would be a compliance buyout for the isles befor he is a negative asset in a trade.


Last edited by JLewyB: 05-20-2013 at 08:32 AM. Reason: edit: looks like a couple of people have already pointed this out as wrote this up.
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05-20-2013, 08:33 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
Really? I hadn't heard that.
it's called the "Wade Redden Rule"

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05-20-2013, 08:33 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by JLewyB View Post
New CBA doesn't allow teams to completely "bury" a one-way contract in the minors. Dipietro's contract(minus about 800,000 for a team to fill his roster spot) still counts against the cap. I imagine DiPietro would be a compliance buyout for the isles befor he is a negative asset in a trade.
Sounds right. I wasn't aware of that CBA change.

Apologies to enrothorne.

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05-20-2013, 10:10 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by JLewyB View Post
New CBA doesn't allow teams to completely "bury" a one-way contract in the minors. Dipietro's contract(minus about 800,000 for a team to fill his roster spot) still counts against the cap. I imagine DiPietro would be a compliance buyout for the isles befor he is a negative asset in a trade.
You are correct.

Staple who covers the team for Newsday, said he thinks he gets bought out this summer.

Staple also thinks Ratner/Wang get the team into Barclays in 2014-2015. Wang wants the extra $35m per, from the additional luxury suites and the County wants to start the develop of the arena land.

The playoff push bought 1000 new, full season tix plans according to the press.
The new cba gives Wang revenue sharing for the first time.

Only press and fans outside LI, think Wang can't afford DiPietro's $1.5m per buyout.

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05-20-2013, 12:17 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
You are correct.

Staple who covers the team for Newsday, said he thinks he gets bought out this summer.

Staple also thinks Ratner/Wang get the team into Barclays in 2014-2015. Wang wants the extra $35m per, from the additional luxury suites and the County wants to start the develop of the arena land.

The playoff push bought 1000 new, full season tix plans according to the press.
The new cba gives Wang revenue sharing for the first time.

Only press and fans outside LI, think Wang can't afford DiPietro's $1.5m per buyout.
There's a theme on the trade board that the Isles are cheap and only do things to save money. That doesn't underpin the trade thoughts I had. The Isles are up and coming with lots of cap space. Adding a player like Vanek works in the short term of one season, but could work in the long term too. Vanek wants to win. Playing with Tavares might convince him to resign in NY, especially since the team seems to be on the way up.

Regarding DiPietro, $24M is $24M. If the Isles can get someone else to eat that contract, that's not a bad thing. Sure, Wang could pay for it, but if he doesn't have to, why not pass the contract along?

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05-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I apologize that you had to repeat it. . . again. Is there something I can do to repay you for your time?

And now being serious, this is a discussion board. Generally, discussions work best when people throw out ideas, both good, bad, or in between. Then people discuss. The "HF board authorities" that judge people's ideas, or lament how "stupid" other people can be with their ideas, is really foolish.
I agree 100%. Every time I throw out a harmless suggestion, I'm a "fool" or an "idiot" that apparently offended someone and ruined their day. I don't know if it's just buffalo fans or what, but some people here have a major chip on their shoulder and take these comments absurdly seriously.

And for what it's worth, I still don't see how the fact that the Isles have Dipietro automatically takes them out of the discussion for Miller. I guess that's why I'm an idiot! God forbid that someone might be new to the game and trying to learn.

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05-20-2013, 12:54 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by DarenPuppaLives View Post
I agree 100%. Every time I throw out a harmless suggestion, I'm a "fool" or an "idiot" that apparently offended someone and ruined their day. I don't know if it's just buffalo fans or what, but some people here have a major chip on their shoulder and take these comments absurdly seriously.

And for what it's worth, I still don't see how the fact that the Isles have Dipietro automatically takes them out of the discussion for Miller. I guess that's why I'm an idiot! God forbid that someone might be new to the game and trying to learn.
With what I do, I take no offense to what anyone says. But the idea that a certain few have cornered the market on what's a "good idea," is sort of ridiculous.

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05-20-2013, 02:45 PM
  #189
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When you come up with something nobody has said, then feel free to feel like you have a new idea. But Miller to the isles isn't new and is far fetched for reasons many have stated(not just on the Sabres forum here).

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05-20-2013, 02:47 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
They'd break out the checkbook, sell him on the rebuild and his prominent role in it, and he gets icetime and cash he wouldn't in Detroit.

Between NHL salary coming back and retained salary transactions, I doubt they actually clear 13 million in cap space.

So would I, but those cost assets.

If the team sucks, why do any of them sign a year later? Especially when it would mean another year of kids being forced to play roles they can't handle with no backup, which must do wonders for their trade value and our position in the vicious cycle of title contention.

Fair, but that's trading two top line players without adding any competent placeholders. Hodgson's supposed to get better offensively playing with Ennis and Stafford against Bergeron and Chara?
Based on cap geek: right now $48.7M

trade Vanek and Miller -$13.4M

sign Hodgson $3.5M
sign Weber $1.5M
sign Scott $0.7M
sign Enroth $1.3M
sign Flynn $1.2M
sign Pardy or Sulzer $1.0M (other signed to an AHL only deal)
total signing= $9.2M

net on cap -$4.2M

Cap after $44.5M
(cap floor $44M)


If they eat salary then it would be around $50M.

If Armia is on the 23 man roster and Grigs is not that also could affect things.

Vanek and Miller trade likely brings back 3 roster players + picks.

I have no interest in overpaying to sign a Filpula or someone else to a 4 or 5 yr contract. This kind of thing perpetually hurts a club later. Id rather trade for players under contract at a reasonable cost and not have to overpay to sign a UFA. Then when Bufalo becomes a young and up and coming team ready to take that next step (see Islanders this offseason) then UFAs become interested. Only when they are ready to make that next step do I make an effort to go out and try to sign the missing piece or 2 to make a serious cup run.

Because of the cap situation Buffalo would be a prime spot for a player like Ballard--a cap dump on a short 1-2 yr contract. With Minnesota they may say we will take Heatly(1 yr left) + 2014 1st/young players from MIN for 2014 2nd or 3rd.


I see 2014 as being a larger crop of UFA/cap buyout players available. i want the team to have $10M clear. Trading Stafford next year at the deadline and buying out Leino is he plays poorly opens up another $8+M in 2014.

I dont see the team sucking all that much. from the roster Armia replaces Vanek. Hackett replaces Miller. They have 2-3 other players from the trades.

lines next year could look like:

Leino-Grigs-Armia
Ennis-Hodgson-Stafford
Foligno-Ennis-Ott
Kaleta-Porter-Flynn
Scott, Gerbe

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Myers-Sekera
Weber-Ruhwedel
Pardy/Sulzer as 7th Dman

i could see Larsson getting called up mid season. Girgs could too but they would want to limit him to 9 games.

I am not even taking into account the 1 or 2 added forwards from trades and the signing of a 3rd/4th line player like Bickell.

If you go out and acquire players 25-27 via trades I am fine with that. Buffalo will have a stockpile of players they could move...beyond the players up there you have Catenacci, Girgensons, Larsson, McNabb, Gauthier-Leduc, McCabe. Assuming Miller and Vanek return 2 top 3 round picks (1st and 2nd in 2013 or 2014) + 3 young players the team would have 4 1st round, 6 2nd round, and 2 3rd round pick the next 2 years. Add in the 4 picks currently have in rounds 1-3 for 2015.

That is a total of 25 tradeable pieces (not on the NHL roster) to add a 2-3 player you need to acquire either by traditional trade, for UFA negotiating rights, or to offer sheet a player. If Vanek is kept then it falls to 22.

they also could move Sekera, Stafford, Ott, and even Ehrhoff to get players/picks they need. At next years trade deadline Sekera, Ott, and Stafford all could return 1st round picks on their own.

this is why given their cap and these assets they could make a serious offer to get Malkin and sign him to an extension.how does Malkin for Hodgson+ 3 other players/picks sound. If Pittsburgh wins the cup he is traded this offseason.

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05-20-2013, 03:00 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
There's a theme on the trade board that the Isles are cheap and only do things to save money. That doesn't underpin the trade thoughts I had. The Isles are up and coming with lots of cap space. Adding a player like Vanek works in the short term of one season, but could work in the long term too. Vanek wants to win. Playing with Tavares might convince him to resign in NY, especially since the team seems to be on the way up.

Regarding DiPietro, $24M is $24M. If the Isles can get someone else to eat that contract, that's not a bad thing. Sure, Wang could pay for it, but if he doesn't have to, why not pass the contract along?


1, Snow has made the comment several times, that he wants his prospects taking open roster spots. His last 'building from within' comments came in an article about 1 week ago. Snow has Nino/Strome/Nelson nhl ready or close to being nhl ready. Imo he doesn't feel pressure to make a big deal and would rather have a kid on an ELC on Tavares wing, then a $7m player.

2. Staple in Newsday has had several fanchats this season and been asked about Miller/Vanek/Luongo/Bernier/Halak/Hiller among others. Staple says the isles don't want to pay the price Buffalo will demand for Miller or Vanek and that he doesn't think they want to pay the high salaries due on their extensions.

3.Would Wang prefer not to have to buyout DiPietro? Of course, just like other owner facing buyouts. But, Wang is looking at the chance to make big bucks with the Brooklyn move. An extra $35m per season on luxury suites alone. He's not weakening his on ice product and chance to win because he doesn't want to pay $1.5m per on a buyout.

4.Wang and his wife own a company called NeuLion. He and the the Barclays Center group have set up a deal to stream some of the Barclay events thru Neulion. I read they have to work through some of the rights issues, but they are going to use NeuLion infrastructure to stream some of the events.

5. Ratner is bidding against 3 other developers for the Coliseum land. Part of his bid is having the isles play 6 games in Nassau, at their old arena. The press says Wang fully supports Ratner's proposal. Wang/Ratner have intertwined interests. Ratner won't want a diminished on ice product either.


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05-20-2013, 03:10 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Regarding DiPietro, $24M is $24M. If the Isles can get someone else to eat that contract, that's not a bad thing. Sure, Wang could pay for it, but if he doesn't have to, why not pass the contract along?
Who will take a contract that has a buyout cost of 24M over 16 yrs. I don't see that many teams taking such a contract unless:

1. The contract was highly front loaded so the actual buyout amount is far less than the cap hit. For example Briere has $6.5M cap hit over 2 yrs. his buyout cost is really just $3.33M total divided over 4 years.

2. The team is sending back an equally bad contract....or the te orignating team send the team cash as part of the deal to pay off the contract.

3. The team is getting back something they really want without giving up any serious assets to get. Team is one quality player from a cup run but they have to take this bad contract to get him.

another issue on this that is unknown--if you acquire a player as a cap dump how long must he be on the roster before a buyout could occur? If this is a June trade could they immediately buy him out before the UFA period starts...it appears you cant do this in Septemebr.

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05-20-2013, 03:31 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
1, Snow has made the comment several times, that he wants his prospects taking open roster spots. His last 'building from within' comments came in an article about 1 week ago. Snow has Nino/Strome/Nelson nhl ready or close to being nhl ready. Imo he doesn't feel pressure to make a big deal and would rather have a kid on an ELC on Tavares wing, then a $7m player.

2. Staple in Newsday has had several fanchats this season and been asked about Miller/Vanek/Luongo/Bernier/Halak/Hiller among others. Staple says the isles don't want to pay the price Buffalo will demand for Miller or Vanek and that he doesn't think they want to pay the high salaries due on their extensions.

5. Ratner is bidding against 3 other developers for the Coliseum land. Part of his bid is having the isles play 6 games in Nassau, at their old arena. The press says Wang fully supports Ratner's proposal. Wang/Ratner have intertwined interests. Ratner won't want a diminished on ice product either.
Because of the move to the new stadium + revenue sharing is why I feel the team really does make a push by going out to acquire a net gain of 2 players this offseason (net gain means add another player if they fail to resign Streit). I am not saying they are trading all their farm...but they arent that many players away from being really good. If Nabakov doesnt resign or is asking too much then the team would look at goalies out there to trade for.

I am coming at this objectively---not trying to say Islanders need to get Vanek or Miller. I am talking about name players in general. They could use their 1st and Niederreiter to go out an aquire a player who could serious contribute to the team next season ...the 1st round pick is 3-4 yrs out at least....Niederreiter is 2-3 yrs out from seriously making an impact.

My fear is that this could turn into the Miami Marlins. They get the new stadium then they gut the team. going into next year with a good number of UFAs/RFAs they are at a crossroads of what they do next. If they go with promote from within next seasoin then they take a step back for 1-2 yrs before they could be playoff competitive again.

The 4-6 games at the Colesium does make good marketing sense. The other issue will be they need to do this because of potential scheduling conflicts. It will be interesting to see how they do the retrofit to make it NHL possible.

something I never understood---when this arena was built why wasnt it built with Hockey in mind....knowing well the issues with Nassua county and the Islanders.

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05-20-2013, 03:45 PM
  #194
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In my eyes, the most obvious suitor for Miller is St Louis. Quite a few Blues fans are in favor of Miller, but it seems that most of their proposals involve a goalie coming back to Buffalo as part of the deal's core. I'm skeptical that Regier would want a goalie back because seeing what we have in Enroth and Hackett makes a lot of sense. Any ideas on what else could come back from St. Louis?

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05-20-2013, 03:50 PM
  #195
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It's too bad Grigorenko can't play in Rochester. Almost wouldn't mind Foligno in Roch either. I'd almost rather see us stack all our upcoming prospects in Rochester to make a run for the Calder together. Girgs, Armia, Larsson, Pysyk, McNabb, Ruhwedel, Cat, Hackett, and possibly Tropp could make up a promising core in Rochester. No interest in gift wrapping roster spots to youngins like Foligno was. Pysyk, who looked ready for the big leagues much like Foligno, is the most likely candidate next year for that gift wrapped roster spot. I say keep as many guys as we can in Rochester next year, we have a few uninspiring warm bodies to be the bridges(Staff,Leino,Gerbe,).

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05-20-2013, 03:52 PM
  #196
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In my eyes, the most obvious suitor for Miller is St Louis. Quite a few Blues fans are in favor of Miller, but it seems that most of their proposals involve a goalie coming back to Buffalo as part of the deal's core. I'm skeptical that Regier would want a goalie back because seeing what we have in Enroth and Hackett makes a lot of sense. Any ideas on what else could come back from St. Louis?
Halak for one more year allows them to let Hackett finish out his minor eligibility.

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05-20-2013, 04:16 PM
  #197
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Because of the move to the new stadium + revenue sharing is why I feel the team really does make a push by going out to acquire a net gain of 2 players this offseason (net gain means add another player if they fail to resign Streit). I am not saying they are trading all their farm...but they arent that many players away from being really good. If Nabakov doesnt resign or is asking too much then the team would look at goalies out there to trade for.
Isles don't want to pay players $6m-$7m per, when they could pay players
$900,000+ bonuses.

And with the glut of goalies available, what other team will give Nabby a chance to share the workload as a 1A/1B? NY press says he's expected to re-sign and Snow will pursue another goalie to split the workload. Staple mentioned likely interest in Bernier/Halak/Hiller/Khudobin.

Quote:
I am coming at this objectively---not trying to say Islanders need to get Vanek or Miller. I am talking about name players in general. They could use their 1st and Niederreiter to go out an aquire a player who could serious contribute to the team next season ...the 1st round pick is 3-4 yrs out at least....Niederreiter is 2-3 yrs out from seriously making an impact.
But that is not what Snow/Wang want to do. The easiest way for the isles to push season tix sales, would be to say they were going to be aggressive spenders, add 1-2 big names from trades or the ufa market.

Instead they are pushing how well the youth movement is going and how fans should be excited about seeing Strome/Nino/Nelson.

I posted in a Eriksson to LI proposal, my suggestion of Nino+ 1st for Eriksson.
Do I think there's a real chance of it happening? No.

Quote:
My fear is that this could turn into the Miami Marlins. They get the new stadium then they gut the team. going into next year with a good number of UFAs/RFAs they are at a crossroads of what they do next. If they go with promote from within next seasoin then they take a step back for 1-2 yrs before they could be playoff competitive again.
Isles have one of the lowest payrolls in the league. Several or their core players are on cheap or reasonable multi yr deals. Their last 5 first rounders are either in
the AHL or juniors. In 2014-2015, Grabner and Okposo enter the last 2 yrs on their contracts, making $4m-$5.5m in those yrs. Okposo worked with a sports psychologist this season and was arguably their best player from late March on. If he is playing this way during that last 2 yrs of his deal, the isles won't mind paying him. If he's inconsistent still, I don't want to pay him that type of salary. Same for Grabner. I don't see them gutting this team because after buying out DiPietro, they don't have a bunch of high salaries to gut.


Quote:
something I never understood---when this arena was built why wasnt it built with Hockey in mind....knowing well the issues with Nassua county and the Islanders
Wang was trying to convince Ratner to join him on LI for his project, while Ratner was trying to convince Wang to join him in Brooklyn. It looks like Ratner's development project, was getting out of hand financially and he went cheap.

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05-20-2013, 04:45 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by enrothorne View Post
When you come up with something nobody has said, then feel free to feel like you have a new idea. But Miller to the isles isn't new and is far fetched for reasons many have stated(not just on the Sabres forum here).
Thanks for the clarification. Are you the official topic setter? Luongo, Ryan, Nash, etc. we're talked about ad naseum. I wonder if they ever rehashed or recycled any ideas? But for the sake of your time, I'll try to be more original.

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05-20-2013, 04:48 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
1, Snow has made the comment several times, that he wants his prospects taking open roster spots. His last 'building from within' comments came in an article about 1 week ago. Snow has Nino/Strome/Nelson nhl ready or close to being nhl ready. Imo he doesn't feel pressure to make a big deal and would rather have a kid on an ELC on Tavares wing, then a $7m player.

2. Staple in Newsday has had several fanchats this season and been asked about Miller/Vanek/Luongo/Bernier/Halak/Hiller among others. Staple says the isles don't want to pay the price Buffalo will demand for Miller or Vanek and that he doesn't think they want to pay the high salaries due on their extensions.

3.Would Wang prefer not to have to buyout DiPietro? Of course, just like other owner facing buyouts. But, Wang is looking at the chance to make big bucks with the Brooklyn move. An extra $35m per season on luxury suites alone. He's not weakening his on ice product and chance to win because he doesn't want to pay $1.5m per on a buyout.

4.Wang and his wife own a company called NeuLion. He and the the Barclays Center group have set up a deal to stream some of the Barclay events thru Neulion. I read they have to work through some of the rights issues, but they are going to use NeuLion infrastructure to stream some of the events.

5. Ratner is bidding against 3 other developers for the Coliseum land. Part of his bid is having the isles play 6 games in Nassau, at their old arena. The press says Wang fully supports Ratner's proposal. Wang/Ratner have intertwined interests. Ratner won't want a diminished on ice product either.
Obviously point two takes Vanek out of play, at least for public purposes. I don't see the rest necessarily ruling out a trade, maybe making it less likely though.

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05-20-2013, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Halak for one more year allows them to let Hackett finish out his minor eligibility.
I'd rather see some of Hackett before it runs out. If they get Halak I see them still dealing him at the deadline or earlier if injuries happen somewhere.

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