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The Ovechkin Derby: Is there a worse team out there than Carolina?

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Old
09-25-2003, 10:57 AM
  #1
Sam I Am
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The Ovechkin Derby: Is there a worse team out there than Carolina?

Carolina has to be the odds on favorite to finish last in the league. Pittsburg ought to give them a run for there money. Here's my list if the worst five (worst first}:

Carolina
Pittsburg
Columbus
Calgary
Montreal

Any thoughts?

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:01 AM
  #2
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Carolina will be MUCH improved this year. Francis, O'Neill, a healthy Brind'Amour, Cole and Vasicek. Vrbata as well.

They are way better than Pittsburgh.

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09-25-2003, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am
Carolina has to be the odds on favorite to finish last in the league. Pittsburg ought to give them a run for there money. Here's my list if the worst five (worst first}:

Carolina
Pittsburg
Columbus
Calgary
Montreal

Any thoughts?
I think Carolina will challenge for a playoff spot and wouldn't be surprised if they grabbed one.


Pittsburgh has to be considered the clear favorite at this point.

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:09 AM
  #4
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Carolina's goaltending is suspect--Weekes si not my idea of a rock between the pipes. Their key player, the magnicent Ron Francis, is about 120-years-old and about to lose the adjective ageless.

I agree that Pittsburg looks equally awful but their fortunes nmay be somewhat helped by Mario playing 70 games and a stunning rookie season by Fleury?

Nobody for Columbus?

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:11 AM
  #5
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I have a feeling Nashville will not have a good season.

My List:
30. Pens
29. Preds
28. Coyotes
27. Jackets
26. Thrashers

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:14 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am
Carolina's goaltending is suspect--Weekes si not my idea of a rock between the pipes. Their key player, the magnicent Ron Francis, is about 120-years-old and about to lose the adjective ageless.

I agree that Pittsburg looks equally awful but their fortunes nmay be somewhat helped by Mario playing 70 games and a stunning rookie season by Fleury?

Nobody for Columbus?
Mario hasn't played 70 games since 1997. He doesn't have enough talent around him.

Yes, the Canes goaltending in somewhat suspect, but take a look at their defense corps:

Boughner
Hedican
Hill
Markov
Ward
Wesley
St. Jaques

Better than a number of playoff teams.

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:16 AM
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strictly on paper calgary and columbus don't look that bad.

columbus for one lost whitney, but got marchant and sydor. how well that lineup gels is of course the question, but my guess is they're out of the bottom five for sure, mybe out of the bottom 10.

all my signs point to nashville having a horrific season, changing over nearly the entire blueline, axing skrastins and delmore for example. probably score more goals with a healthy forward core, but even with great goaltending from vokoun look for them to let in 250, 260 goals.

something tells me carolina will rebound and challenge for a spot.

teams in trouble, worst five anyway, for me:

1) nashville - no defence. nothing.
2) pittsburgh - rico fata, kris beech in the top six.
3) atlanta - will score more goals but still years away.
4) los angeles - injury troubles big-time not going away.
5) boston - no defence and questionable goaltending.

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:19 AM
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Carolina has a definite shot. A healthy Brind'amour and Cole, an improved defense (Markov and Bougher added)...

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
...all my signs point to nashville having a horrific season, changing over nearly the entire blueline, axing skrastins and delmore for example. probably score more goals with a healthy forward core, but even with great goaltending from vokoun look for them to let in 250, 260 goals.
...

1) nashville - no defence. nothing.
Did you even watch Nashville's defense last year? Why am I asking, even if you did, you couldn't have paid attention.. because they STUNK!

ANYTHING, even a less NHL experienced crew, would be an improvement over the D- core they let go.

It is probably the biggest myth on this board that the Preds defense will be worse this year due to turnover.

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09-25-2003, 11:25 AM
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I agree--Nashville coulc be in for a fall.

Minnesoata as well...certainly without Garborik. No way though that a Jacques Lemaire team fall into the bottom five due to the absence of a single player.

Pittsburg's bad, no question about it.

Much has been made of the 'Canes injuries last season. Lost on a lot of people are the 82 game seaons enjoyed by Francis and O'neill, their top two forwards. This is not likely to happen again...

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09-25-2003, 11:30 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am

Much has been made of the 'Canes injuries last season. Lost on a lot of people are the 82 game seaons enjoyed by Francis and O'neill, their top two forwards. This is not likely to happen again...

O'Neill has NEVER played less than 72 games since his rookie year.

Francis has missed an average of 1 game a season over his last 7. Only twice in 21 years has he missed more than 10 games.

Francis & O'Neill are durable players .. it works the same way the Lindros & Forsberg are fragile.

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:32 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrocketman
Did you even watch Nashville's defense last year? Why am I asking, even if you did, you couldn't have paid attention.. because they STUNK!

ANYTHING, even a less NHL experienced crew, would be an improvement over the D- core they let go.

It is probably the biggest myth on this board that the Preds defense will be worse this year due to turnover.
well i watched aboot five nashville games, maybe a couple more on local calgary tv.

what i saw was pretty brutal to say the least, especially delmore. ouch.

so you may have something there, rock bottom, nowhere to go but up. maybe they're planning an anaheim-style blueline rebuild, bring a bunch of kids up at once. but this year will not be good for their defence, even if it's better than last season.

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09-25-2003, 11:38 AM
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Works for me, I wouldn't mind adding Ovechkin to our prospect corps, obviously the lack of respect to the Preds is in a great amount on the board. All I say is just wait and see, we'll have our growing pains, but there isn't a chance in hell (unless we lose our top two lines or Vokoun) we finish in last.

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09-25-2003, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am
Minnesoata as well...certainly without Garborik. No way though that a Jacques Lemaire team fall into the bottom five due to the absence of a single player.
Ah c'mon, the Wild never get to top anyone's list for anything.

How 'bout the Wild without Gaborik, Dupuis, and Ronning? There goes 161 points from the whopping 524 the guys put up last year.. That's nearly a third...

(Not that I don't agree with you about the bottom five, though... just thought I'd throw out some numbers.)

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
strictly on paper calgary and columbus don't look that bad.

columbus for one lost whitney, but got marchant and sydor. how well that lineup gels is of course the question, but my guess is they're out of the bottom five for sure, mybe out of the bottom 10.
My guess is that Columbus is a bottom feeder this season. I see both Sydor and Marchment as quality NHL players, but I don't think they will gel at all. They would be much better served in letting their young players evolve into bigger roles rather than bring in bigger name guys to take on the responsibility.

A comparable example is Boumeister and Klesla. Last year, Florida moved out guys like Yuskevich and Ozolnish providing Boumeister with more opportunity, while Klesla is seeing a guy like Sydor come in and take away some of his ice time.

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrocketman
Did you even watch Nashville's defense last year? Why am I asking, even if you did, you couldn't have paid attention.. because they STUNK!

ANYTHING, even a less NHL experienced crew, would be an improvement over the D- core they let go.

It is probably the biggest myth on this board that the Preds defense will be worse this year due to turnover.

Agreed, the Preds, in their history have allowed...

1998 261 goals allowed
1999 240 goals allowed
2000 200 goals allowed
2001 230 goals allowed
2002 206 goals allowed

If we let in 260 goals, it will be the worst season defensively since we let in 261 in our expansion year. That year we had Dunham taking the starting reigns for the first time in his career, Eric Fichaud as the initial backup. A rookie in Vokoun as the backup for the second half of the season and another career AHLer in Chris Mason that saw time spelling either Fichaud or Vokie when Dunham was injured. They were the worst Goaltending group in the NHL. And the defense...

Names like Jamie Heward, Joel Bouchard, Drake Berehowsky, John Slaney, Bob Boughner, Jan Vopat, Kimmo Timonen (played half the season), J.J. Daigneault, Jayson More. Our top 6 Dman in terms of games played were...

Bob Boughner 79 games
Drake Berehowsky 74 games
Jamie Heward 63 games
Jan Vopat 55 games
Kimmo Timonen 50
John Slaney 46 games


I seriously doubt we are going to return to that form. In fact, saying that we would return to that form because we don't have "the talent" shows a profound lack of knowledge when it comes to Nashville hockey. Only way we end up that bad is a level of injuries concentrated on those players who keep goals down (defensive forwards, dman and goalies). Even then, I don't see it happening.

The key to realizing that Nashville's defense will be fine comes with understanding that it's the system, not the players. You don't honestly think Minnesota is a talented hockey team do you? Well, did you ever think Nashville was a talented defensive team? No, well we finished top 9 in GA two of the past 3 seasons (00-01, 02-03). Hmmmm

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:47 AM
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Pittsburgh will probably finish last and lose the lottery.

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09-25-2003, 11:47 AM
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I think you've made this mistake before, but it's todd marchant that the jackets added not brian marchment...

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Old
09-25-2003, 11:56 AM
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Carolina doesn't have a *prayer* of landing this kid... not without some truly horrible injury situations arising.

The front-runner is Pittsburgh and by not a small amount. A month from now, we may think otherwise if Fluery and some of these other kids play above expectations. I think this is possible. Other than from Edzo, there will be little pressure on them from the media and elsewhere. Every win will feel like a gift.

After the Pens, Phoenix, Columbus and Nashville all have a decent shot. Atlanta is right back in the running of Heatley or Kovulchuk gets hurt.

Beyond that, no one else is going to sign this kid without a trade happening first to make it happen. And it would have to be a pretty damn good trade bait being put out there. Watch out for Florida in that regard...

...Bouwmeester and 2nd rounder to the Pens for the first pick? If I were Patrick, I'd do it. He needs a #1 defensman for the future way more than potential goal scorers, which they have coming out their ears. Potential being the operative word.


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Old
09-25-2003, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
The key to realizing that Nashville's defense will be fine comes with understanding that it's the system, not the players. You don't honestly think Minnesota is a talented hockey team do you? Well, did you ever think Nashville was a talented defensive team? No, well we finished top 9 in GA two of the past 3 seasons (00-01, 02-03). Hmmmm
my number of 260 came from the last time they had a bunch of dmen that hadn't played together much. could be different if they're used to each other in the AHL is suppose, you could be right.

but systems need familiarity. where's that guy going to be? etc.

but even within this 'system' (what team does NOT have a 'system'?) i simply see a lot of, well, rookie mistakes being made. think kuba and schultz and mitchell never made mistakes on their way to a working system in minny? mitchell went from -16 to +13 in one season. it does not happen overnight. and when you turn over that much of your blueline in one off-season, it DEFINITELY does not happen overnight.

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09-25-2003, 12:10 PM
  #21
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Was this an attempt to urke Carolina fans into an uproar? Just because of last year they're going to finish last? Not a chance! In fact in another thread I'd predicted Carolina to be the most improved team over last year.
It's between Pitts, Nash, and Yotes IMO with Lemieux's team being the front runner. No offense Pens fans, not a knock on the team, they're just in a VERY unfortunate situation.

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09-25-2003, 12:11 PM
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i'm surprised that no one has mentioned chicago, to this point.

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09-25-2003, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nomorekids
i'm surprised that no one has mentioned chicago, to this point.
as a die-hard chicago fan, i honestly had them listed before boston, but loyalty killed it. i also draft lots of hawks, haven't won a hockey pool in awhile...

seriously i predict (and really hope) that chi-town's younger guys bell, calder, arnason contribute solidly, especially arnason. maybe ruutu and radulov can make competition for ice-time interesting.

backup goaltending and defence are still major question marks, could be ugly. definite ovechkin possibilities if one or two things go wrong, like first-line injuries.

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Old
09-25-2003, 12:30 PM
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chicago
pittsburgh

clearly the two worst teams

 
Old
09-25-2003, 12:34 PM
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Pits
Chi
Car
Nash
Pho

I think it will go down that way with Chicago winning the pick and taking Ove but refusing to sign him will let him re enter the draft to prove that they won't be bullied around. Of course, they will win the lottery the next year and draft him again.
(don't bother, it's just a bad joke. Much like the team's chances of winning the cup this year)

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