HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

The Ovechkin Derby: Is there a worse team out there than Carolina?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-25-2003, 07:31 PM
  #51
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Did you by chance watch the game where they held the St. Louis Blues to 13 total shots in a game ??
missed it. 13 shots???

the worst teams will look brilliant sometimes, notably the terrible islanders of the mid-late nineties. usually against their crosstown rivals!

i did catch a game, 3-0 loss to calgary at home, terry crisp for fox sports said it was the worst game of the season for them.

man what a bad start nashville had last season, same with buffalo.

is ovechkin worth 'throwing' a season over? tough for a coach to orchestrate, but could a gm trade most of a team's older guys for picks, throwing this season, and keep the confidence of the fans? just speculation. i'd imagine not one market in hockey could take it.

Looger is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 07:36 PM
  #52
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
missed it. 13 shots???

the worst teams will look brilliant sometimes, notably the terrible islanders of the mid-late nineties. usually against their crosstown rivals!

i did catch a game, 3-0 loss to calgary at home, terry crisp for fox sports said it was the worst game of the season for them.

man what a bad start nashville had last season, same with buffalo.

is ovechkin worth 'throwing' a season over? tough for a coach to orchestrate, but could a gm trade most of a team's older guys for picks, throwing this season, and keep the confidence of the fans? just speculation. i'd imagine not one market in hockey could take it.
It really wasn't a fluke. Legwand and Johannson were out so they only way we coudl win games was to play total defense in that last 15 or so game stretch. We lost most of the games, but not by huge margins, in fact, the Preds had one of the better records for the 2nd half of the season. They were legitimately playoff threats *1 point out with a game on the Oilers* at one point before Legwand went down with Johanson already out.

As for the gm throwing the season.....we have no elders to dump , and I'm so glad that we have lost most of the deadweight on this team.

Enoch is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 07:36 PM
  #53
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
missed it. 13 shots???

the worst teams will look brilliant sometimes, notably the terrible islanders of the mid-late nineties. usually against their crosstown rivals!

i did catch a game, 3-0 loss to calgary at home, terry crisp for fox sports said it was the worst game of the season for them.

man what a bad start nashville had last season, same with buffalo.

is ovechkin worth 'throwing' a season over? tough for a coach to orchestrate, but could a gm trade most of a team's older guys for picks, throwing this season, and keep the confidence of the fans? just speculation. i'd imagine not one market in hockey could take it.
Yup, lowest total all season for St. Louis.

Yeah, our start killed us. Injuries snowballed to begin the season and it was almost over before it began. Then the injury bug bit again as the season drew to a close and we bit the dust hard.

And no, I can't see us tanking this season. Especially considering there might not be a next season, I wouldn't want to leave such a bad taste in the mouth of the fans. In a non-traditional market, the Preds play a rather boring brand of hockey (to the casual observer) and only winning will bring the fans at first. A disastrous season, even if it nets Ovechkin, would likely demolish hockey in Nashville if there is no next season. You can't have a very bad product in a non-traditional market, then have a strike and expect people to come. God I hope it doesn't come to that.

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 07:41 PM
  #54
Evilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: France
Country: France
Posts: 29,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBadBert
Pittsburg (With the exception of Lemieux, Straka and Morozov, this is a minor league team)
Nope.
Check the roster dude.
Young, talented, but inexperience will cause tons of losses.
Certainly not a minor league team though.

Evilo is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 07:41 PM
  #55
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
You can't have a very bad product in a non-traditional market, then have a strike and expect people to come. God I hope it doesn't come to that.
i think baseball proved that, attendance has never recovered in many markets, some traditional. last i heard it's still down 10% or more in some places since the strike.

an nhl strike/lockout one season or longer would destroy two or three teams. carolina, florida, tampa, despite cinderella runs or recent resurgence, could be in trouble.

Looger is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 07:48 PM
  #56
triggrman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 18,921
vCash: 500
add chicago and boston too

triggrman is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 07:57 PM
  #57
#37-#93-#27*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 3,079
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to #37-#93-#27*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingboy2999
Oh come on....
According to most we're the worst everything else, we might as well be the worst team period.

#37-#93-#27* is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 08:00 PM
  #58
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Matter
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 26,108
vCash: 500
Chicago has an outside shot, not as good as the Pens, Jackets or Preds though. Not IMO. Thibault will win them a fair number of games.

Anyway, Jacob... I'm curious as to why you think we have more defensive upside (the Pens) with our young guys than offensive. Looking forward, we have several good offensive talents: Morozov, Fata, Abid, Beech, Sivek, Koltsov... even Kraft if he yanks his head out. Couple others that are decent, too. Who do we have other than Orpik who could really lead this team as a defensman in a couple years? No one.

Rozy and Melichar are very solid but very injury prone. They're not going to lead anyone most likely. Really, in terms of talent, size and leadership, Orpik is the only one who really has that chance. Every organization needs more than one top-tier defender to make a run at the Cup.

I'd take Bouwmeester and a decent pick in exchange for Ovechkin without too much hesitation. Our D is pretty bad, even in terms of who is in the system / who we've traded for lately. Focht, Berehowsky... all those types are fill-ins at best. That or I'd trade for an already established defenseman (say #3 guy on a good team) and a solid (2nd line) forward too. Hard to say who would make such a trade though. Ovechckin is still an unknown quantity.

If St. Louis weren't so iffy on D with the injuries every year, and so stacked at forward, I wouldn't mind seeing a trade to get Jackman in a Pens uni.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 08:10 PM
  #59
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
Chicago has an outside shot, not as good as the Pens, Jackets or Preds though. Not IMO. Thibault will win them a fair number of games.

Anyway, Jacob... I'm curious as to why you think we have more defensive upside (the Pens) with our young guys than offensive. Looking forward, we have several good offensive talents: Morozov, Fata, Abid, Beech, Sivek, Koltsov... even Kraft if he yanks his head out. Couple others that are decent, too. Who do we have other than Orpik who could really lead this team as a defensman in a couple years? No one.

Rozy and Melichar are very solid but very injury prone. They're not going to lead anyone most likely. Really, in terms of talent, size and leadership, Orpik is the only one who really has that chance. Every organization needs more than one top-tier defender to make a run at the Cup.

I'd take Bouwmeester and a decent pick in exchange for Ovechekin without too much hesitation. Our D is pretty bad, even in terms of who is in the system / who we've traded for lately. Focht, Berehowsky... all those types are fill-ins at best. That or I'd trade for an already established defenseman (say #3 guy on a good team) and a solid (2nd line) forward too. Hard to say who would make such a trade though. Ovecheckin is still an unknown quantity.

If St. Louis weren't so iffy on D with the injuries every year, and so stacked at forward, I wouldn't mind seeing a trade to get Jackman in a Pens uni.
Thibault isn't as dependable as he once was, though. If you're going to cite a good goalie as an asset to keep a team out of the bottom, then Nashville and Columbus should be included in that absolution as well. Vokoun and Denis were as good, if not BETTER than Thibault last year, with defenses that were just as bad as Chicago's.

__________________
www.thepredatorial.com

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 09:31 PM
  #60
Mack
Registered User
 
Mack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,586
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Mack
IMO pittsburgh and nasville have the best chance

Mack is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 09:54 PM
  #61
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,459
vCash: 500
sometimes i feel i'm singing to the deaf.

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 09:01 AM
  #62
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
sometimes i feel i'm singing to the deaf.
What was that ???

Enoch is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 09:02 AM
  #63
Dr.Strangelove91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tricolore world
Posts: 332
vCash: 500
Columbus and Pitts.

Although, I would not mind seeing the Habs finish last and win the lottery. I think Ovechkin would look awesome in a Habs uniform. Let's go back to the glory days. Gotta keep dreamin' no...

Dr.Strangelove91 is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 09:34 AM
  #64
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
If St. Louis weren't so iffy on D with the injuries every year, and so stacked at forward, I wouldn't mind seeing a trade to get Jackman in a Pens uni.
what makes you think st. louis would EVER trade jackman?

reminds me of the flames fans who somehow think they could trade conroy and gauthier for a 'true' #1 center, with less than thirty of those guys to go around!

i mean if you're privy to some inside information, please let us know!

Looger is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 09:55 AM
  #65
tom_servo
Registered User
 
tom_servo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
Chicago has an outside shot, not as good as the Pens, Jackets or Preds though. Not IMO. Thibault will win them a fair number of games.

Anyway, Jacob... I'm curious as to why you think we have more defensive upside (the Pens) with our young guys than offensive. Looking forward, we have several good offensive talents: Morozov, Fata, Abid, Beech, Sivek, Koltsov... even Kraft if he yanks his head out. Couple others that are decent, too. Who do we have other than Orpik who could really lead this team as a defensman in a couple years? No one.

Rozy and Melichar are very solid but very injury prone. They're not going to lead anyone most likely. Really, in terms of talent, size and leadership, Orpik is the only one who really has that chance. Every organization needs more than one top-tier defender to make a run at the Cup.

I'd take Bouwmeester and a decent pick in exchange for Ovechkin without too much hesitation. Our D is pretty bad, even in terms of who is in the system / who we've traded for lately. Focht, Berehowsky... all those types are fill-ins at best. That or I'd trade for an already established defenseman (say #3 guy on a good team) and a solid (2nd line) forward too. Hard to say who would make such a trade though. Ovechckin is still an unknown quantity.
Zippy, I think that the Pens will be in dire need of a goalscorer very soon, even more so than defensemen (with which they're relatively strong). They have depth in forward, but could any be called blue-chip scorers? No, not many. Not even a single one. But I could count at least two blue-chip defensemen, Whitney and Orpik, with possibly a third in Welch.

Ovechkin is an unknown quantity just like every other prospect. Bouwmeester included.

tom_servo is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 10:39 AM
  #66
Evilo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: France
Country: France
Posts: 29,013
vCash: 500
Yep.
Welch, Orpik, Whitney are all projected as top 4 dmen. That's not even mentionning the depth behind them (Lupaschuk, Bissonnette, Nemec... plus the young guys already on the team : Melichar and Rozsival).
What we lack is a top flight offensive wizard prospect.

Evilo is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 11:28 AM
  #67
Sam I Am
Registered User
 
Sam I Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,482
vCash: 500
Is any team going to start the season with a weaker defense than Boston. And with less in nets...still it's hard to imagine them competing with the llikes of Pittsburg. Too many too good forwards.

Revised predictions

Pittsburg
Columbus
Carolina
Calgary
Montreal

Sam I Am is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 11:52 AM
  #68
tom_servo
Registered User
 
tom_servo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am
Is any team going to start the season with a weaker defense than Boston.
Pittsburgh aside, Washington has a particularly laughable defense, where guys named Doig and Kwiatkowski hold prominent positions.

tom_servo is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 11:57 AM
  #69
Lambert Closse
Registered User
 
Lambert Closse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 2313 Ste-Catherine W
Country: Canada
Posts: 817
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Strangelove91
Columbus and Pitts.

Although, I would not mind seeing the Habs finish last and win the lottery. I think Ovechkin would look awesome in a Habs uniform. Let's go back to the glory days. Gotta keep dreamin' no...
I do not agree. Habs will fight for a play-off spot until late march ans fall short of getting either in post-season or in the lottery picks. Once again Habs management will not know what to do on trading deadline day: buy or sell just like they did every year since the Muller-Schneider for Malakhov-Turgeon year.

Habs will pick 12th, draft 6'2" 222 pounds d-man Billy Charlebois from Moose Jaw Saskatchewan, that will come to 4 trainig camp and never make the team.

Lambert Closse is offline  
Old
09-26-2003, 01:04 PM
  #70
CupBound
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am
Is any team going to start the season with a weaker defense than Boston. And with less in nets...still it's hard to imagine them competing with the llikes of Pittsburg. Too many too good forwards.

Revised predictions

Pittsburg
Columbus
Carolina
Calgary
Montreal
You think that Calgary will finish last in the west? Below Chicago, Nashville, SJ, Phoenix etc?

Not likely.

My choices are:

Pittsburgh
Carolina
Chicago
Nashville
Phoenix

CupBound is offline  
Old
09-27-2003, 03:14 PM
  #71
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Matter
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 26,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Zippy, I think that the Pens will be in dire need of a goalscorer very soon, even more so than defensemen (with which they're relatively strong). They have depth in forward, but could any be called blue-chip scorers? No, not many. Not even a single one. But I could count at least two blue-chip defensemen, Whitney and Orpik, with possibly a third in Welch.

Servo-meister (can I call you that ),

Sorry for the delay in replying to this...

I have to say I still disagree in principle about our prospects defensively vs offensively. Do we have any "blue chip" scorers out there? Unlikely unless Koltsov or maybe Fata really meet the expectations that people once had of them. Even then unlikely. However, I think we have several kids that could develop into 50 pt+ guys over the next few years.

On the flip side, I can only count Orpik as a possible all-star calibre defensman in the making. Whitney is very talented, but where is he now? He's not even in camp AFAIK so it's hard for me to consider him someone who can immediately start developing within and aiding the Pens organization. Even if he is on the team in a year or two, what happens when he or Orpik is hurt? We're back to being "real thin on D". If one of our young forwards gets hurt, there are plenty of talented kids waiting in the wings for their shot.

Plus, it's much easier to trade good prospects for a good forward than it is for a good defensman in this league. Talented, proven D are a much more valuable asset in trade negotiations than are the average [35-45] pt forward let's say.

I'm not saying we don't *need* the next Jagr (talent-wise) on offense - lot's of teams do - I'm saying Craig and Edzo should build the club up around a defense, and a group of versatile forwards (which we have), THEN you go out and get the blue chip guy if you can. IOW, I think Atlanta did it backwards. They're just lucky as hell to have Bob Hartley right now because that will help their team D tremendously.

Anyway, I do agree we need that Blue Chip guy sooner or later. But there's no question we will fail without 2 or 3 "Top 3 cablibre" defensmen out there. And by Top 3 I mean guys who could make the Top 3 on all but the best defensive teams....

Just MO of course. I could be off.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
09-27-2003, 07:28 PM
  #72
Enoch
This is my boomstick
 
Enoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cookeville TN
Country: United States
Posts: 12,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy
I think Atlanta did it backwards. They're just lucky as hell to have Bob Hartley right now because that will help their team D tremendously.
Exactly! Hartley is also supposed to be good at devoloping youngsters..

Enoch is offline  
Old
09-27-2003, 08:52 PM
  #73
ziggy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Posts: 178
vCash: 500
Haven´t read the whole thread but I don´t see Carolina repeating as the worst team. Pittsburg is the clearcut favorite for me. Nashville seems to be going nowhere as well, they´ve got some young kids, but noone like Heatley/Kovalchuk. Chicago is a darkhorse. And I seriously think Edmonton could fall flat on their faces this year, just a feeling I have. To round out the bottom five - what with the five worst teams being the ones having a shot at 1st overall in the lottery - I´d say the Bruins.

ziggy is offline  
Old
09-28-2003, 02:13 PM
  #74
Brownies
Registered User
 
Brownies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Writing an Haiku or watching an habs game
Posts: 2,978
vCash: 500
Mmmm, you can call José Théodore and asks him... At this point, a big part of Ovechkin future remains in his hands if you see what I mean... :p

Brownies is offline  
Old
09-28-2003, 05:54 PM
  #75
agentfouser
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
pittsburgh
columbus
phoenix
maybe chicago, but i think thibault can hold them in there

beyond those, however, i think it comes down to whoever gets hit by injuries worst. so, which teams are most prone to losing a player to injury and then collapsing?

not los angeles - they hung in there a long time last year with half a team, and they're deeper this year.
montreal - koivu's loss would hurt
calgary - iginla

 
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.