HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

The Ovechkin Derby: Is there a worse team out there than Carolina?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-25-2003, 03:57 PM
  #31
nordique
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcorejacket29
I think you've made this mistake before, but it's todd marchant that the jackets added not brian marchment...
True...but if the Jackets want Marchment, I'm sure Ferguson would gladly ship him over for Marchant, even in the state of our defence now.

 
Old
09-25-2003, 04:11 PM
  #32
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=SmokeyClause]So basically, this team is the same talent-wise as the Expansion team? They are equivalent in terms of experience and play and since they are going to have the same results (actually worse when you consider that they have a better goaltender behind them), they must be of very similar talent.

And, I will keep emphasizing the 'system' point. Every team has a system. Some are better than others. The Preds have one of the best defensive systems in the league (a step below Minny's but still good). Like I mentioned, we have been top 9 in defense two of the past 3 years.
[QUOTE]

hey man paraphrase all you want. 260 was simply a number i pulled out of my ass.

and for the record i don't see the blue line as a cohesive corps being any better than game 1 of season 1.

from the 5+ games i watched last year i didn't see a system that worked particularly well, maybe it's just me, maybe i didn't watch a lot of games. it reminded me a lot of the maple leafs, don't ask me why...

we can analyze and analyze, it's simply an out-of-my-ass prediction. that's why they play the games. this isn't college football where there's so few games that teams can 'underachieve' and 'overachieve'.

i'm simply predicting regardless of system, jason york being the only guy i can think of off the top of my head over 300 games, they will get shelled. maybe i'll be proven wrong, we shall see.

Looger is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 04:17 PM
  #33
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
So basically, this team is the same talent-wise as the Expansion team? They are equivalent in terms of experience and play and since they are going to have the same results (actually worse when you consider that they have a better goaltender behind them), they must be of very similar talent.

And, I will keep emphasizing the 'system' point. Every team has a system. Some are better than others. The Preds have one of the best defensive systems in the league (a step below Minny's but still good). Like I mentioned, we have been top 9 in defense two of the past 3 years.

hey man paraphrase all you want. 260 was simply a number i pulled out of my ass.

and for the record i don't see the blue line as a cohesive corps being any better than game 1 of season 1.

from the 5+ games i watched last year i didn't see a system that worked particularly well, maybe it's just me, maybe i didn't watch a lot of games. it reminded me a lot of the maple leafs, don't ask me why...

we can analyze and analyze, it's simply an out-of-my-ass prediction. that's why they play the games. this isn't college football where there's so few games that teams can 'underachieve' and 'overachieve'.

i'm simply predicting regardless of system, jason york being the only guy i can think of off the top of my head over 300 games, they will get shelled. maybe i'll be proven wrong, we shall see.
Timonen has 330+ games of NHL experience.

And atleast you admit it's an out of your ass prediction. I make off the wall predictions all the time. Just don't expect Preds fans to follow your logic.

And I know our system might not look good (Though 5 games is a really, really small sample) but the results are there.

And surely you don't believe the line in bold. Do I really have to go back and show you...again? That year, as a cohesive corps, we had 0 players that had ever played together. Every player in this years corp has played together with the Exception of Zidlicky/Hamhuis.

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 05:24 PM
  #34
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Timonen has 330+ games of NHL experience.

And atleast you admit it's an out of your ass prediction. I make off the wall predictions all the time. Just don't expect Preds fans to follow your logic.

And I know our system might not look good (Though 5 games is a really, really small sample) but the results are there.

And surely you don't believe the line in bold. Do I really have to go back and show you...again? That year, as a cohesive corps, we had 0 players that had ever played together. Every player in this years corp has played together with the Exception of Zidlicky/Hamhuis.
sorry, didn't know timonen had played that many games. i stand corrected.

i really still think having a few journeymen like berehowsky is a tremendous advantage when the chips are down. he'd played nhl in 93/94 and gone down to the ahl, only to return with the preds. i saw the tremendous effect that bob boughner had on calgary's defence corps, pulling it up by the collar. he'd been an unspectacular player his whole career, but was an old man in cowtown.

berehowsky's never been worse than a -9 on an expansion team.

i'd expect thomas kloucek to perform, he was decent as a ranger in my opinion.

and jason york posts solid numbers.

but removing two cogs in a defence is actually quite traumatic. maybe more so than a tear-down rebuild, which at the end of last season i thought was going to happen.

i stand by my assessment.

and don't tell me what i believe and i don't believe.

Looger is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 05:56 PM
  #35
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 30,880
vCash: 500
the thing that's being overlooked is that there are really only two "rookies" that are being added to the predators' defense, this year. of those rookies...
1. dan hamhuis- first round draft pick, scouting reports actually point out that he plays beyond his 20 years. has a full season in the AHL under his belt, and has impressed everyone the second half of the year last year\preseason this year. the only true "rookie."
2. Marek Zidlicky- said by many to be the best offensive d-man in the sm-liiga last year(which is considered a tougher league than the AHL). Isn't exactly a kid(25 years old.) is a rookie only in the sense that he hasn't played in north america to this point. his play has been reminscent of a more physical kimmo timonen.

that said, it's being overlooked that we're not even the only team that plans to possibly insert two rookies into the lineup. LA is possibly going to go with Denis Grebeshkov and Essa Pirnes. Philadelphia could end up with both Pitkanen and Woywitka making the team. It's simply being overlooked because it's not Nashville , a team that is traditionally considered to be a weaker team. On the whole, who knows? maybe we are, but I can near guarantee that, after our camp....defense isn't going to end up being our problem. our scoring looks to be the problem, but i'm not even concerned about that, because we were winning games 2-1 down the middle of the season(where we posted the third best record in the LEAGUE) and if need be, we can do it again. We've got a stud goalie, and i honestly believe(i consider myself a realistic person, if not a pessimist) that our defense is...at WORST....AS GOOD as last year, but more likely it's better. that said...i don't think we'll finish in the bottom five in the league. i don't think we're quite ready for the playoffs yet...i could see it being close...and finishing 9th or 10th...but by no means the bottom of the league.

__________________
www.thepredatorial.com

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 05:59 PM
  #36
#37-#93-#27*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 3,079
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to #37-#93-#27*
Rangers

#37-#93-#27* is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:05 PM
  #37
DevilFisch
Registered User
 
DevilFisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edison, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 8,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DevilFisch Send a message via AIM to DevilFisch
I think Pittsburgh is the favorite now, but my gut is saying Florida will end up with the #1 overall pick in the draft. AGAIN.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they traded the pick again too.

DevilFisch is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:13 PM
  #38
Owen Wilson
Registered User
 
Owen Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 1,792
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Owen Wilson Send a message via MSN to Owen Wilson
Whoever said Carolina has obviously not been paying attention to offseason moves. Weekes was one of the best goalies before that concussion sidelined him. Thye added Boughner and Markov, plus they got Wesley back. Francis, O'Neill, Vrbata, Vasicek, healthy Cole and Brind'amour and you've got yourself a team that will be fighting for the division with Tampa Bay.

My top(actually low) 5

Pittsburg (With the exception of Lemieux, Straka and Morozov, this is a minor league team)

Nashville (Still young and inexperienced)

Montreal ( I'm a Habs fan and I know they ain't going to do much this year. A lot of young players playing this year and learning the ropes)

Chicago (Ruutu will impress; Daze, Sullivan and Zhamnov are solid forwards and Thibault can hold his own in net, but the rest is downright scary)

Phoenix (Didn't improve at all from last year, Traded their top D-man for a 3rd line centre.)

Owen Wilson is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:14 PM
  #39
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
our scoring looks to be the problem, but i'm not even concerned about that, because we were winning games 2-1 down the middle of the season(where we posted the third best record in the LEAGUE) and if need be, we can do it again.
i've stated this elsewhere but in my opinion if anything nashville will be better this year in the area of offense. delmore is gone but walker, johansson and legwand were looking good when not injured, these three guys could score 70-80 goals. scottie upshall and jordin tootoo look to add some offense too i bet.

the preds were a cinderella story last spring, looked like they were trying to save the owner that ticket increase! but that backbreaker game against edmonton seemed to deal a blow. can they rebound?

Looger is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:22 PM
  #40
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
sorry, didn't know timonen had played that many games. i stand corrected.

i really still think having a few journeymen like berehowsky is a tremendous advantage when the chips are down. he'd played nhl in 93/94 and gone down to the ahl, only to return with the preds. i saw the tremendous effect that bob boughner had on calgary's defence corps, pulling it up by the collar. he'd been an unspectacular player his whole career, but was an old man in cowtown.
OK, Bob Boughner, in his first year as a Predator, had played two full years in the NHL before he laced him up for us. Arrived in Calgary with 210 more games of experience. The Boughner you saw was quite a bit better than the Boughner who played for the Predators in their inaugural season.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
berehowsky's never been worse than a -9 on an expansion team.
Berehowsky was so bad that since leaving the Predators, he hasn't found a regular spot on anyone's rotation. He's played 3 years of post-Preds hockey and averaged 30 or so games a year. There's a reason this guy is a journeyman and it isn't cause he's a good hockey player.

And that goes to show you why +/- is sometimes meaningless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
i'd expect thomas kloucek to perform, he was decent as a ranger in my opinion.

and jason york posts solid numbers.
No arguments here. Kloucek was one of the Rangers most prized prospects and York was our best Dman last year. I'm not too worried about their contributions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
but removing two cogs in a defence is actually quite traumatic. maybe more so than a tear-down rebuild, which at the end of last season i thought was going to happen.
We lost Boughner and Drake for alot of the 2000-01 season. Didn't hurt us then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
i stand by my assessment.

and don't tell me what i believe and i don't believe.
I didn't tell you what you believed. You told me, I questioned it. I mean, that statement, at face value, doesn't make a lot of sense. 6 players that have never played together before have more cohesion than 3 players who played most of last season together and 3 newcomers (one of which has played with the Predators). While the latter doesn't have alot of cohesion, surely you don't think they are equal to having 6 newcomers.

Believe what you want. But don't try to pass this by a Predators fan and expect to get a happy response. Now, maybe if you had seen something more than 5 games last year, your comments would hold weight. But we have heard too many snide remarks from too many people who know too little about the Preds to make any remark.

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:23 PM
  #41
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 30,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
i've stated this elsewhere but in my opinion if anything nashville will be better this year in the area of offense. delmore is gone but walker, johansson and legwand were looking good when not injured, these three guys could score 70-80 goals. scottie upshall and jordin tootoo look to add some offense too i bet.

the preds were a cinderella story last spring, looked like they were trying to save the owner that ticket increase! but that backbreaker game against edmonton seemed to deal a blow. can they rebound?
I'm not THAT worried about the offense...because I think that with a better defense, the offense can focus more on scoring than backchecking(we spent WAY too much time in our end, last year) and so hopefully goals will score themselves, but what i've seen in preseason is a team that's gunshy and hesitant...which could be attributed to the fact that it's a mix of NHL and AHL guys. That said, it's as I've said in the past(and I know Smokey has made similar statements,) it's really too early to call, either way. Predators fans(even the objective ones) seem to believe this is by far the best team we've ever iced...and the rest of the league believes it to be the worst. I'd be inclined to go with the people that actually follow the team and are familiar with the guys that comprise it..but...no one knows. This could be a cinderella team....or we could very well be stepping up the Podium to select Ovechkin. I can see positives to both situations

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:26 PM
  #42
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
Predators fans(even the objective ones) seem to believe this is by far the best team we've ever iced...and the rest of the league believes it to be the worst. I'd be inclined to go with the people that actually follow the team and are familiar with the guys that comprise it..but...no one knows.
It's a delicate balance between homers who know what's going and unbiased people who have no clue.

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:37 PM
  #43
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
And surely you don't believe the line in bold.
right here - you're telling me what i believe.

look, i have my opinion, and you've succeesfully challenged some of my facts. i'm not making snyde remarks.

Looger is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:39 PM
  #44
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looger
right here - you're telling me what i believe.
Well, I didn't mean to tell you what to believe. I consider it questioning what you believe. But to each his own.

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
09-25-2003, 06:40 PM
  #45
Looger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
Predators fans(even the objective ones) seem to believe this is by far the best team we've ever iced...and the rest of the league believes it to be the worst.
know watcha mean, living in calgary for seven years i saw some terrible teams iced, with gm's entirely missing the problems that needed to be fixed.

this season they look better than they have for a long time in my opinion, but until there's a return to playoffs they'll be considered an ovechkin contender by people who haven't closely watched the team.

if preds fans are excited than maybe they won't be bottom-five this year, we shall see.

Looger is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.