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Why Hate Scott Stevens?

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05-13-2005, 02:28 PM
  #101
c-carp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
I don't think many people believe Stevens is a cheapshot but context cannot be ignored.

I think almost all of Stevens' hits are clean and acceptable but the Lindros' hit was absolutely merciless, if not a bit malevolent.

I don't have that much of a problem with the Kariya hit but the Lindros hit was questionable.

Context is key and I don't think there would be that many players out there who would aim to hit someone's head when they've already had five concussions (one just three months prior to the hit). The last one could've potentially ended Eric Lindros' career and handicapped him for life.





Completely different hits.

Moore and Stevens are completely different players and their hits are completely divergent too. I am not going to argue about how Stevens will fight his own fights but the hit itself is entirely different.

Lindros had the puck and Stevens aimed for the puck-carrier. That is alright by hockey standards.
When Moore went to hit Naslund, the puck was no where near Naslund. Instead of going for the puck (Moore was closer to the puck btw) targetted Naslund's hit. Legal but dirty hit.

I think Moore's hit was much more dirtier than Stevens' hits. None of Stevens' hits are actually dirty but I just find the fact that he would still aim for Lindros' head a bit reckless.

Jovo I just have one question. If one hit could have handicapped the Big E for life and I am not in a position to doubt this. I dont know his medical history other than he has concussion problems and concussions ended his brothers career. That being said if he knew this he didnt belong on NHL ice. I think the game moves too fast for Stevens or any other player to let up. I dont think at that level you should let up. Lindros should get some of the blame here.

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05-13-2005, 02:31 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
Jovo I just have one question. If one hit could have handicapped the Big E for life and I am not in a position to doubt this. I dont know his medical history other than he has concussion problems and concussions ended his brothers career. That being said if he knew this he didnt belong on NHL ice. I think the game moves too fast for Stevens or any other player to let up. I dont think at that level you should let up. Lindros should get some of the blame here.

Stevens isn't the only guy to blame for Lindros' concussions, if that idiot ever learned to keep his head up, he would be playing in Philly dominating the league still, but no, the moron needed a couple more hits from Kaspy and Stevens to lay him out and put him out for a year to get him to realize that.

Why make excuses for Lindros' being out, he's out because he put himself in the position to get railed by a defenseman that looks for big hits, it was just a matter of time. Its a Lindros problem, both Eric and Bret are just weak when it comes to handling concussions or learning from them.

Stevens isn't the one to blame.

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05-13-2005, 02:32 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by T@T
I think all the Stevens haters will find new flamebait very soon in a guy named Phaneuf
I cannot wait to see that kid suit up as well.

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05-13-2005, 02:35 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillyWilly
I have never seen a defenseman that plays clean, if he did he wouldn't last in the NHL for more than a game. People can try to mention a defenseman that does, but chances are he's cross checked the hell out of a player in the lower back when all he had to do was pin him against the board, no such thing as a clean playing defenseman.
Lidstrom. 4 or 5 time Lady Byng candidate. He's as squeaky clean as a hockey player can get.

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05-13-2005, 02:38 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Lidstrom. 4 or 5 time Lady Byng candidate. He's as squeaky clean as a hockey player can get.

Ever see the guy in the playoffs? he's not exactly the pope out there and you are aware that a cross check is not considered a clean way of hitting right? EVERY DEFENSEMAN CROSS CHECKS THE HELL OUT OF PLAYERS in the corner and against the boards.

Just because he gets away with it doesn't mean he's a clean defenseman and the Lady Byng counts ur season points and lack of pim's for the award, the playoffs not really, i know he's not a clean defenseman, you gotta be honest with yourself, every defenseman plays cheap, not all the time but during some moment in the game.


I always thought Francis is a squeaky clean hockey player, i can't remember him doing anything dirty during a game.

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05-13-2005, 02:45 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillyWilly
I have never seen a defenseman that plays clean, if he did he wouldn't last in the NHL for more than a game. People can try to mention a defenseman that does, but chances are he's cross checked the hell out of a player in the lower back when all he had to do was pin him against the board, no such thing as a clean playing defenseman.
Tomas Kaberle

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05-13-2005, 02:51 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillyWilly
Ever see the guy in the playoffs? he's not exactly the pope out there and you are aware that a cross check is not considered a clean way of hitting right? EVERY DEFENSEMAN CROSS CHECKS THE HELL OUT OF PLAYERS in the corner and against the boards.

Just because he gets away with it doesn't mean he's a clean defenseman and the Lady Byng counts ur season points and lack of pim's for the award, the playoffs not really, i know he's not a clean defenseman, you gotta be honest with yourself, every defenseman plays cheap, not all the time but during some moment in the game.


I always thought Francis is a squeaky clean hockey player, i can't remember him doing anything dirty during a game.
Yes I have watched him in the playoffs and no I haven't seen him cross checking the hell out of opposing players in the corners. He'll muscle guys up against the boards but he generally has one hand up on the glass and his stick in front of the other player. He uses leverage and pressure, not heavy impacts to exert force on opposing forwards.

Francis is pretty clean as well.

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05-13-2005, 02:54 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Yes I have watched him in the playoffs and no I haven't seen him cross checking the hell out of opposing players in the corners. He'll muscle guys up against the boards but he generally has one hand up on the glass and his stick in front of the other player. He uses leverage and pressure, not heavy impacts to exert force on opposing forwards.

Francis is pretty clean as well.
Yep I agree. Lidstrom, Kaberle are about as clean as it gets for Dmen. Lidstrom has always relied on positioning and reach to contain forwards. He's so skilled, he doesn't need to drive them into the boards.

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05-13-2005, 03:12 PM
  #109
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What about Numminen and Timonen? I may looking through blue-white glasses here, but they have always seemed pretty clean to me.

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05-13-2005, 03:59 PM
  #110
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Yes, Ulf Samuelsson was such a clean defenseman too...just because they don't get penalized for it, doesn't mean it never happens.

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05-13-2005, 04:11 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChillyWilly
Yes, Ulf Samuelsson was such a clean defenseman too...just because they don't get penalized for it, doesn't mean it never happens.
Both are Swedish defensemen. That is where the similarities between Ulf and Lidstrom ends.

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05-13-2005, 05:03 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c-carp
Jovo I just have one question. If one hit could have handicapped the Big E for life and I am not in a position to doubt this. I dont know his medical history other than he has concussion problems and concussions ended his brothers career. That being said if he knew this he didnt belong on NHL ice. I think the game moves too fast for Stevens or any other player to let up. I dont think at that level you should let up. Lindros should get some of the blame here.
I agree with that. Lindros shoulders some of the blame himself as well. So does Bobby Clarke for rushing him in so early. So does Carl Lindros and Bonnie Lindros for putting so much pressure on his son. So does the Flyers' medical staff for giving him unreliable consultation.

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05-13-2005, 05:10 PM
  #113
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I have no problem with Stevens in fact he's one of my favorite players. Alot of those huge hits were in important games (playoffs), I can't remeber if Lindros's was in playoffs or not but hockey's a contact sport and if you wanna skate down center ice with your head down your going to have to face the consequences. I can't recall any of his big hits being that dirty either, don't recall any elbows being up or knee on knees which I hate, just hard clean hits with the shoulder, nothing wrong with that in my books, mind you I do feel bad when the guys get serioulsy injuried and so does Scott but like I said before it's a contact sport, people are going to get hurt.

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Old
05-13-2005, 05:42 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy
I can't remeber if Lindros's was in playoffs or not but
It was Game 7 of the Eastern Conf Finals.......The devils went on to complete the miraculous comeback after being down 3 games to 1.......Dallas was just a formality and Stevens won the Conn Smythe

Even though the game was tied 1-1 at the time with much of the game to go... after "The Hit" every single Devils fan knew we were going to play Dallas who was waiting for the winner.


**********************

Side Note: I've been watching Stevens for almost two decades and I can't remember him ever delivering a hit like his famous ones during the regular season.


Last edited by JimEIV: 05-13-2005 at 05:55 PM.
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Old
05-13-2005, 08:40 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Boucicaut
The idea is the score more goals than they do.
Great game plan...for intramurals.

Part of the equation that you left out, for whatever reason, is that you "score more goals than they do" in large part by prohibiting "them" from scoring.

And a basic element of doing so, of course, is taking one's opponent out of the play whenever given the opportunity. A Nik Lidstrom does this more subtely and incredibly effectively. Scott Stevens does it both subtely, and violently when the opportunity and situation calls for it.

His hits have been changing playoff games and series for decades. And, despite the complaints by his critics, they have resulted in few penalties; this guy is not only incredibly physical, he is incredibly smart. (Stevens critics never fail to conveniently overlook the fact that the guy is infrequently penalized; that borders on disingenuousness.)

Perhaps a few here envision an NHL where forwards are allowed to skate in uninhibited over the blueline and get their "free chance" at scoring on the goalie. And at the end, we can total up who scores the most.

Others of us prefer for that brand of hockey to be limited to beginners and greybeard leagues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
But punishing somebody with PCS is pretty brutal.
A player who continually puts himself in vulnerable positions on the ice is "pretty brutal". And it is no coincidence that said player (hello, #88) ends up with multiple concussions. The best players venture into high-traffic areas, but are shrewd enough to typically avoid the big hits and minimize the impact of checks. It's an important part of survival (and a long career in the NHL).


Last edited by Trottier: 05-15-2005 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
05-14-2005, 02:20 AM
  #116
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Hear, Hear. Well said.

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05-14-2005, 08:54 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Nope, just facts, what is there to be sour about?
The fact that the Devils won three cups with Stevens as their captain. If he was a Flyer and did the same for them you wouldn't even think of calling him a cheapshot artist, the only difference is neither would I.

That's sour grapes.

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05-15-2005, 05:29 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou is God
The fact that the Devils won three cups with Stevens as their captain. If he was a Flyer and did the same for them you wouldn't even think of calling him a cheapshot artist, the only difference is neither would I.

That's sour grapes.
And? Sakic, Yzermen etc have won cups and I like them as players.

Winning has got nothing to do with it, I dont hate the devils, they simply bore me as the Wild do.

Other players I hate (Tucker, Domi, McCabe, Tibbetts etc) are hardly successful. If I hate players, I hate them for a reason, not because they won a couple of cups.

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05-15-2005, 07:16 AM
  #119
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Calling a player like Stevens dirty is probably the most ridiculous assertion I've ever heard related to hockey.

His job is to not let you skate in free. If you have your head up, you can judge whether you should skate around the check (and in such how much buffer you need to have when doing so) or pass/dump the puck. His job is to force you to give up the puck or skate to the outside. If your head is down (assuming you're going to barrel right in, which is usually the case in such a situation) and he doesn't hit you he isn't doing his job; he isn't forcing you to give up the puck or go to the outside. In such a case you may as well have a pylon out there.

How many guys get concussions (or any injuries that wouldn't be classified as bruises or "boo-boos") from face-to-face body checks when their heads aren't down? It'd take a completely freak accident for that to happen.

Put these two points together and what you have is simple: Keep your head up and do your job, expecting him to do his. A player with his head skating towards Stevens has a very low chance of getting injured. Why don't you guys focus on knee-to-knees, elbowing, and, most importantly, checks from behind (which plagued the Sabres quite often last season).

As far as "letting up", if he does he can just as likely end up being the one on his ass. If the target is aware of Stevens' position, as he should be, he should be able to absorb the most vicious of legal shoulder checks. That may or may not result in said player sledding across the ice without a sled, but it almost certainly won't result in his brains being turned to split-pea soup.

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05-15-2005, 07:21 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
And? Sakic, Yzermen etc have won cups and I like them as players.

Winning has got nothing to do with it, I dont hate the devils, they simply bore me as the Wild do.

Other players I hate (Tucker, Domi, McCabe, Tibbetts etc) are hardly successful. If I hate players, I hate them for a reason, not because they won a couple of cups.
I think you slightly missed his point, which is that if he won a couple cups for your team, you wouldn't have anything bad to say him. And neither would he. He wasn't saying that you dislike him because he won cups.

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05-15-2005, 07:32 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
I think you slightly missed his point, which is that if he won a couple cups for your team, you wouldn't have anything bad to say him. And neither would he. He wasn't saying that you dislike him because he won cups.
Hed be wrong, I hated Tibbetts before he was on the Flyers and when he was on the Flyers. Id be the same with Tucker, Domi, McCabe, Stevens etc. I dont like Brashear, I think hes an embarressment to the team.

If I hate them, I hate them and that doesnt change if they play for my team, only hypocritical homer fans change their views depending on if a player players on their team or not.

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05-15-2005, 12:05 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Hed be wrong, I hated Tibbetts before he was on the Flyers and when he was on the Flyers. Id be the same with Tucker, Domi, McCabe, Stevens etc. I dont like Brashear, I think hes an embarressment to the team.

If I hate them, I hate them and that doesnt change if they play for my team, only hypocritical homer fans change their views depending on if a player players on their team or not.
Com'on man, be real. If Stevens became a Flyer instead of a Devils 1991 and lead you guys to THREE Stanley Cups and on the way delivering legal, clean and punishing hits, you'd hate the guy. Rigggghhhttt....

BTW, I don't buy your "I don't hate the Devils" bit for one second, I still remember you hijacking a thread of mine in this forum with clear hatred towards them, I could fish out that thread if you like.

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05-15-2005, 12:26 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou is God
BTW, I don't buy your "I don't hate the Devils" bit for one second, I still remember you hijacking a thread of mine in this forum with clear hatred towards them, I could fish out that thread if you like.
But you must admit Lou is God, the poster you are addressing sure is an expert at...HATING.

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05-15-2005, 01:38 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
I agree with that. Lindros shoulders some of the blame himself as well. So does Bobby Clarke for rushing him in so early. So does Carl Lindros and Bonnie Lindros for putting so much pressure on his son. So does the Flyers' medical staff for giving him unreliable consultation.
that whole medical situation with the Big E was a mess indeed.

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05-19-2005, 12:05 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Hes a cheapshot artist who only does big hits on defenceless players. The hits have intent to injure all over them.

I loved the fact that he was out injured with PCS, karma working at its finest. The only thing that could top that is Tucker having to retire from a cheapshot.
How are they defenseless? Does someone hold them while Stevens hits them? I don't get this defenseless statement because every player in the NHL has the ability to keep their head up going through center. I guess Lindros and Kozlov are exceptions to the case. Anyone who has their head down and eyes on the puck doesn't deserve to play hockey, Lindros didn't learn this in junior because nobody could budge him, if it wasn't Stevens it may have been Blake or Kaspar or Jovo.

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