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Around the League #5: 2013 Play-offs Edition!: Nucks fire AV, AVs hire Roy

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05-29-2013, 10:50 PM
  #501
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We will see indeed. I believe though that your argument about the Hawks facing weaker competition was proven false earlier in this thread.

You say the Kings are on a whole other level. I say the same thing about the Hawks. Far and away the best team in the league this year. A dynamic offensive team that also happened to be the best team in the league at keeping pucks out of their own net.

They are as good at keeping the puck out as the Kings, but far superior at scoring. Maybe the Kings can grind it out, but it is going to be tough for them to outscore the Hawks, even in 2-1 games.
It's hard to be a "dynamic offensive team" when it's nearly impossible to get zone possession time against LAK.

The one thing CHI has going for them is the ability for their D to make the 100-foot breakout passes for odd-man rushes. It's been a factor all year long, and is potentially the one thing that could break open that LAK trap.

Other than that, I don't see their forwards withstanding the physical pressure from the LAK F/D, nor using zone possession time to achieve anything.

I also see the LAK forwards taking advantage of the bottom-4 D on that team. The CHI bottom-6 is also nowhere as deep IMO.

Their 2nd line is also a bit of a dud. Any top-6 line without Kane on it (tonight it was Hossa-Handzus-Saad) is just non-existent offensively right now at ES.

Bolland-Stalberg-Bickell is an elite-level 3rd line. Likely will out-play the Stoll-Clifford-Lewis line. However I see Richards-Carter-Penner clowning whatever CHI has to offer as a 2nd line.

I feel Kopitar-Brown-Williams at the very worse goes "even" against the Toews unit, whoever his wingers are.

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05-29-2013, 10:52 PM
  #502
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REgular season means nothing. ARe you seriously trying to argue the Hawks are a better club on the basis of what occurred in regular season?

Hawks would've been pummelled by the Blues in a 7 game series. Would have lost the physical battle against the Sharks. They're not even equipped to go into a 7 game series with LA.

Last time the Kings played Chi they pumped in 5 goals. not that it means much of anything, just saying. Hawks beat up on a lot of not so good teams this year. They had an easy schedule down the stretch cept for playing the Blues and they had some trouble with them too.
Oh well, we will have to agree to disagree.

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05-29-2013, 10:53 PM
  #503
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And LA has yet to play a team who can actually score goals. The lack of offensive talent on the Blues and Sharks played right into their hands.
Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Burns...Dan Boyle...trust me that's enough fire power to be considered a "team who can actually score goals".

Hell, look at how many goals CHI manged to put up against a much weaker DET team. Inferior goaltending (Quick>Howard) and inferior defense (top-6 on LAK>top-6 on DET). ANA managed more goals against them than CHI.

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05-29-2013, 10:54 PM
  #504
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Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture, Burns...Dan Boyle...trust me that's enough fire power to be considered a "team who can actually score goals".

Hell, look at how many goals CHI manged to put up against a much weaker DET team. Inferior goaltending (Quick>Howard) and inferior defense (top-6 on LAK>top-6 on DET). ANA managed more goals against them than CHI.
That's one power play unit, which is the only reason the Sharks even made the playoffs.

The Sharks had zero depth by the second round. They were never a threat and the Kings still limped past them.

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05-29-2013, 10:55 PM
  #505
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REgular season means nothing. ARe you seriously trying to argue the Hawks are a better club on the basis of what occurred in regular season?

Hawks would've been pummelled by the Blues in a 7 game series. Would have lost the physical battle against the Sharks. They're not even equipped to go into a 7 game series with LA.

Last time the Kings played Chi they pumped in 5 goals. not that it means much of anything, just saying. Hawks beat up on a lot of not so good teams this year. They had an easy schedule down the stretch cept for playing the Blues and they had some trouble with them too.
Not to mention the LAK is a whole different beast come playoff team.

Absolute adherence to their systems play, Quick elevates his game by upping his save percentage by 5%, and they turn up the physical game.

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05-29-2013, 10:57 PM
  #506
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And LA has yet to play a team who can actually score goals. The lack of offensive talent on the Blues and Sharks played right into their hands.

The Kings will be tested against teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh because they'll lose any game they give up more than 2 goals in.
lolwut?

The Blues and the Sharks are virtually the only clubs that can muster much offense against the Kings who dominate around net and in their own zone. To say that the Sharks don't have offensive talent is incredible.

As mentioned just establishing puck possession in the Kings end is tough if you can't win puck battles.

Kings don't give up much and it hasn't mattered who they are playing. They just limited arguably the top big forward in the game. Hawks don't have anybody that will push the Kings as much as Thornton did and I dare say he's one of the few on the planet that can at this point.

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05-29-2013, 10:59 PM
  #507
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That's one power play unit, which is the only reason the Sharks even made the playoffs.

The Sharks had zero depth by the second round. They were never a threat and the Kings still limped past them.
That's a good point. But it was one of the weakest series' the Kings has played in the last two seasons. There's no point to us arguing this further until we see what happens over the next 7 games of that series. Will be interesting to watch though. My money's on LAK, as much as I despise that team.

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05-29-2013, 11:03 PM
  #508
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That's a good point. But it was one of the weakest series' the Kings has played in the last two seasons. There's no point to us arguing this further until we see what happens over the next 7 games of that series. Will be interesting to watch though. My money's on LAK, as much as I despise that team.
Sharks are worthy and just extended the Kings more than any team has been able to do in years. Thornton just had the playoffs of his life. Team was on a mission this year.

Sharks stepped up. A very talented team played their best series ever. Kings still won.

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05-29-2013, 11:03 PM
  #509
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lolwut?

The Blues and the Sharks are virtually the only clubs that can muster much offense against the Kings who dominate around net and in their own zone. To say that the Sharks don't have offensive talent is incredible.

As mentioned just establishing puck possession in the Kings end is tough if you can't win puck battles.

Kings don't give up much and it hasn't mattered who they are playing. They just limited arguably the top big forward in the game. Hawks don't have anybody that will push the Kings as much as Thornton did and I dare say he's one of the few on the planet that can at this point.
Joe Thornton is a setup man who was on the ice with a nobody and a defenseman they had to move to forward just to be able to have four lines.. guy never stood a chance.

Crosby will be another story.

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05-29-2013, 11:14 PM
  #510
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I think CHI's bottom 6 will be able to out score the LAK's bottom 6.

LAK are far more physical than CHI, but I don't think the Hawks will be overwhelmed. I think it depends on Crawford and how well the CHI Dmen are able to clear out rebounds.

Sharp - Toews - Kane can outplay Brown - Kopitar - Williams.

We also haven't seen CHI's best yet.

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05-29-2013, 11:16 PM
  #511
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Joe Thornton is a setup man who was on the ice with a nobody and a defenseman they had to move to forward just to be able to have four lines.. guy never stood a chance.

Crosby will be another story.
Speaking of teams that haven't had a real challenge yet...


Let's see Crosby try to succeed against this dynamic duo


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 05-29-2013 at 11:21 PM. Reason: Clarifying that PIT has had it easy thus far
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05-29-2013, 11:18 PM
  #512
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Speaking of teams that haven't had a real challenge yet...

Pretty sure they just blew up the eastern conference equivalent of the Kings.

I'd take Krejci over Thornton as well.. actually I'd take that line over anybody on the Kings, Sharks, or Blues. Weird how people here want to keep riding the big, tough players but ignore something like Krejci/Lucic/Horton. Behold, a big, tough line who can actually put up points too.

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05-29-2013, 11:20 PM
  #513
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Pretty sure they just blew up the eastern conference equivalent of the Kings.

I'd take Krejci over Thornton as well.
I did that wrong, was trying to suggest that Crosby hadn't seen a challenge yet. And that Chara/Bergy would give him a headache, no pun intended.

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05-29-2013, 11:23 PM
  #514
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Sharks are worthy and just extended the Kings more than any team has been able to do in years. Thornton just had the playoffs of his life. Team was on a mission this year.

Sharks stepped up. A very talented team played their best series ever. Kings still won.
And the Hawks are better than the Sharks. More scoring depth and faster overall.
The Hawks haven't faced a beast like the Kings but the Kings haven't faced a team like the Hawks yet. The Blues are a mirror image of the Kings and the Sharks are a fairly weak 5 on 5 team.

It doesn't matter about matchups anyway. All the teams in the top 7 of the west are awfully close, it's really a coin flip and only 2 teams in the East can compete with these West teams which happens to be the 2 teams remaining. It's truly the 4 best teams left in the playoffs.

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05-29-2013, 11:24 PM
  #515
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I did that wrong, was trying to suggest that Crosby hadn't seen a challenge yet. And that Chara/Bergy would give him a headache, no pun intended.
Pittsburgh is weird. I had them written off half way through the first round, but now Vokoun has the same stats as Quick since stepping in. They're the wild card of the remaining four. They're riding a high goals for and a low goals against.. but they won't need to worry about goals against if they're playing the Kings.

The only thing I'm certain about for Pittsburgh is that Crosby will put up points against anybody.

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05-29-2013, 11:26 PM
  #516
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Pittsburgh is weird. I had them written off half way through the first round, but now Vokoun has the same stats as Quick since stepping in. They're the wild card of the remaining four.

The only thing I'm certain about for Pittsburgh is that Crosby will likely put up points against anybody.
I think Vokoun is top-3 or 4 amongst goalies in terms of save percentage since the last lockout (0.921). That's better than Lundqvist. It's no surprise he's been in pseudo-god mode since taking over.

But then again, playing against a bunch of grinders in Ottawa tends to boost your goalie's save percentage. They are the epitome of a team that will shoot from anywhere just to get shots on goal.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 05-29-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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05-29-2013, 11:37 PM
  #517
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Hawks in 7, Pittsburgh in 7

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Old
05-29-2013, 11:39 PM
  #518
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I think CHI's bottom 6 will be able to out score the LAK's bottom 6.

LAK are far more physical than CHI, but I don't think the Hawks will be overwhelmed. I think it depends on Crawford and how well the CHI Dmen are able to clear out rebounds.

Sharp - Toews - Kane can outplay Brown - Kopitar - Williams.

We also haven't seen CHI's best yet.
We haven't seen Chicagos best in the playoffs in a longtime. Thats my whole point. We saw the Kings at their best last year and repeating this year.

Lets get this out of the way as well. Hawks are extremely fortunate to be moving on and had to win 3 in a row and the final game in OT to get to this point. Hawks were one shot away from being eliminated in a few of those games. Particularly game 7.

Hawks are dreaming if they think they did anything but survive this series. They were ******** themselves in the 3rd as the Wings dominated and won puck battles.

Kings and Sharks held serve in the series but Kings were never really worried and it showed.

Also, anybody saying Sharks were easy they dismantled the Canucks readily in straight games. This being a club the Hawks lost to in the playoffs 2 yrs ago.

The Kings annihilated the same Canucks club a year later. Absolutely ran them over.

Next, last season virtually identical Hawks club lost in the first round, and in convincing fashion, to the Phoenix Coyotes. A team the Kings later dismantled for fun.

So in respective seasons against mutual playoff foes the Kings have destroyed the Canucks and coyotes and the Hawks were vanquished by both of them.

People can ignore these things but all indicators in respective matchups means the Kings are a better team now and have taken apart clubs that have or would have given the Hawks fits.


Last edited by Replacement: 05-29-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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05-29-2013, 11:43 PM
  #519
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The Sharks were fed power plays the entire Vancouver series to mask their terrible 5 on 5 play, much like during the regular season. They also weren't as depleted against Vancouver as they were against LA; hell, analysts were actually praising the depth of the Sharks in round 1.

Also, not sure why the regular season doesn't matter to you, but playoffs from years past somehow do. Talk about being choosey.

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05-29-2013, 11:44 PM
  #520
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And the Hawks are better than the Sharks. More scoring depth and faster overall.
The Hawks haven't faced a beast like the Kings but the Kings haven't faced a team like the Hawks yet. The Blues are a mirror image of the Kings and the Sharks are a fairly weak 5 on 5 team.

It doesn't matter about matchups anyway. All the teams in the top 7 of the west are awfully close, it's really a coin flip and only 2 teams in the East can compete with these West teams which happens to be the 2 teams remaining. It's truly the 4 best teams left in the playoffs.
This part is quite something. Seems like its been awhile since the final 4 was this strong.

If anything I hope the Hawks can make a series out of it for it to be entertaining.

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05-29-2013, 11:48 PM
  #521
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The Sharks were fed power plays the entire Vancouver series to mask their terrible 5 on 5 play, much like during the regular season. They also weren't as depleted against Vancouver as they were against LA; hell, analysts were actually praising the depth of the Sharks in round 1.

Also, not sure why the regular season doesn't matter to you, but playoffs from years past somehow do. Talk about being choosey.
Because playoffs is for real and regular season is about just making it to the dance.

You don't seriously have trouble following the distinction do you?

When it counts is playoffs. Obviously those results are more indicative of who the better teams are in 7 game series.

Want more?

Kings finished 8th last season and 4th this season and are obviously the most dominant club in hockey these past two seasons. So regular season means what? Ask the Canucks.

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05-29-2013, 11:49 PM
  #522
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Because playoffs is for real and regular season is about just making it to the dance.

You don't seriously have trouble following the distinction do you?

When it counts is playoffs. Obviously those results are more indicative of who the better teams are in 7 game series.
The teams who played in the playoffs two years ago aren't the teams who are playing in the playoffs right now.

Weird, huh?

Although it would be awesome to see Hossa playing for both Pittsburgh and Chicago at the same time. That Hawks/Wings series might have been weird though.

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05-29-2013, 11:53 PM
  #523
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Also, anybody saying Sharks were easy they dismantled the Canucks readily in straight games. This being a club the Hawks lost to in the playoffs 2 yrs ago.

The Kings annihilated the same Canucks club a year later. Absolutely ran them over.

Next, last season virtually identical Hawks club lost in the first round, and in convincing fashion, to the Phoenix Coyotes. A team the Kings later dismantled for fun.

So in respective seasons against mutual playoff foes the Kings have destroyed the Canucks and coyotes and the Hawks were vanquished by both of them.

People can ignore these things but all indicators in respective matchups means the Kings are a better team now and have taken apart clubs that have or would have given the Hawks fits.
You can make these sorts of arguments about anyone. The Sharks beat the Canucks who beat the Hawks two years ago... but the Canucks also beat the Sharks two years ago. Two years ago the Sharks beat the Kings... and the year before that the kings lost to the Canucks who eventually lost to the Blackhawks...

None of this is relevant.

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05-29-2013, 11:55 PM
  #524
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A Hawks/Bruins final would leave me satisfied no matter who won.

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05-29-2013, 11:56 PM
  #525
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The teams who played in the playoffs two years ago aren't the teams who are playing in the playoffs right now.

Weird, huh?

Although it would be awesome to see Hossa playing for both Pittsburgh and Chicago at the same time. That Hawks/Wings series might have been weird though.
I'm having a hardtime understanding what you are stating. Hossa has been with the Hawks for all of the years in question. We're talking basically identical lineups with these teams from year to year. At least as far as the core players. Hossa had his head down and got his bell rung by Torres on the way to the Hawks first round disaster last season. Other than that not sure what you are saying.

How is it not relevant that the Hawks have had all kinds of difficulty playing teams with a system game the last couple playoff years.

They're about to face the masters. They had more than enough trouble playing the pretenders like Nucks, Yotes, Wings in last couple seasons.

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