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Around the League #5: 2013 Play-offs Edition!: Nucks fire AV, AVs hire Roy

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Old
06-03-2013, 09:38 AM
  #676
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
The Hawks have been dictating the pace for the majority of the first 2 games, have taken L.A. completely out of their game by playing a high paced, forechecking game and keeping the puck in the L.A. zone. They just look like the faster, more cohesive unit thus far and did so before the injuries for L.A. started to hit.

Perhaps L.A. is gassed but i think even a fresh L.A. team would have a hard time against this Hawks team. As i said before, they haven't played a team this good in their 2 year run. Canucks, St.Louis (2) Phoenix, NJ, SJ are all at least a level below this Hawks team and the best of that group (likely '12-'13 St. Louis) plays the same style that the Kings play, basically a Kings-lite version. This is a whole new beast altogether that can actually push the pace 5 on 5 and score goals in bunches unlike the rest of those teams (outside of San Jose on the PP).
The series isn't over but the Kings are on life support.
The Kings have injuries at key positions. Two Centers have concussions, another is injured meaning that LA's top 3 centers are Injured. it doesn't get worse than that in hockey. Doughty is playing injured. Green just came back from injury. probably a lot more banged up as Sutter is tight lipped about such things.

The difference between LA this year and last is being healthy vs being injured. That happens. Chicago was out one player, Hossa, last year, and folded to the Phoenix Coyotes so lets not discount how much key injuries take a toll. Blackhawks are healthy and rolling. How the cookie crumbles.

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06-03-2013, 09:44 AM
  #677
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The Hawks folded last year because they didn't know how to beat Smith. They learned their lesson and worked on how to be a great goalie.

Injuries aside Quick has been a goalie that usually keeps his team in games especially when LA is only allowing 26 shots. That didn't happen yesterday.

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06-03-2013, 10:05 AM
  #678
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Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG 2m
Boston D Andrew Ference, who played in Game 1 after a lengthy absence, just made his way through Consol Energy Center wearing a walking boot

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06-03-2013, 12:22 PM
  #679
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I hope the pens bounce back nicely today partly cus I hate Boston and partly cus I want a right and exciting series

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06-03-2013, 12:29 PM
  #680
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I like the Pens.

I'm just going to say it and leave it there.

I hope for them to win in 7.

If anything, a Pitts-Chi final validates our method of rebuilding.

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06-03-2013, 12:41 PM
  #681
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If the league wants a series to attract new fans, you can bet they're hoping for a CHI - PIT series.

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06-03-2013, 03:50 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
I like the Pens.

I'm just going to say it and leave it there.

I hope for them to win in 7.

If anything, a Pitts-Chi final validates our method of rebuilding.
This is essentially year 7 of a rebuild and the Oilers still lack a #1 goalie, dubnyk is essentially a #2- #1B (on a really good night goalie)

Pittsburgh-Chicago have flaws in there goaltenders but both in fact every team in this playoff (final 4) has an all star caliber d-man to cover up flaws, some like chicago have 2

All final four teams maybe the exception of Pittsburgh and L.A right now have 4 lines that can score.

These deficiencies can be offset by impact forward players like Crosby, Malkin, Carter, Richards, kopitar, Brown

For all this talk that Oilers are building in the mold of those teams your setting up yourself for huge disappointment.

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06-03-2013, 04:17 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
This is essentially year 7 of a rebuild and the Oilers still lack a #1 goalie, dubnyk is essentially a #2- #1B (on a really good night goalie)

Pittsburgh-Chicago have flaws in there goaltenders but both in fact every team in this playoff (final 4) has an all star caliber d-man to cover up flaws, some like chicago have 2

All final four teams maybe the exception of Pittsburgh and L.A right now have 4 lines that can score.

These deficiencies can be offset by impact forward players like Crosby, Malkin, Carter, Richards, kopitar, Brown

For all this talk that Oilers are building in the mold of those teams your setting up yourself for huge disappointment.
Crosby/Malkin aside,
Carter is a 30 goal scorer, and really a 60 point player
Richards is a 60 point player
Kopitar is a 70-75 point player
Brown is a 55 point player.

Kopitar being the youngest at 25.

This is exactly what we have in Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov, if not better. Gagner scored at a 65 point pace this year. What the Kings players have on the Oiler players is experience, age, and maturity.

Schultz might turn into that all star caliber defenceman. He outscored Doughty this year.

Dubnyk isn't Quick. He is a Crawford, or a Vokoun and probably even a Rask.

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06-03-2013, 05:17 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Tw0Shoes View Post
Crosby/Malkin aside,
Carter is a 30 goal scorer, and really a 60 point player
Richards is a 60 point player
Kopitar is a 70-75 point player
Brown is a 55 point player.

Kopitar being the youngest at 25.

This is exactly what we have in Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins and Yakupov, if not better. Gagner scored at a 65 point pace this year. What the Kings players have on the Oiler players is experience, age, and maturity.

Schultz might turn into that all star caliber defenceman. He outscored Doughty this year.

Dubnyk isn't Quick. He is a Crawford, or a Vokoun and probably even a Rask.
Lots of flaws in your arguments there.

1) Comparing the value of our forwards to that of LA using points alone is ridiculous. LAK's top6 have always been great 2way players, capable of playing the physical game. In terms of pure offensive potential the Oilers are actually better off IMO, but that's not going to help when you don't have an elite transition game.

2) Don't ever compare Schultz to Drew Doughty again. If anything compare Klefbom's future potential for impact to Doughty's. A reach at best.

3) Vokoun has the second highest SV% of goalies who've played >5 seasons since the 05 lockout. Rask has a career SV% of 0.927. If Dubnyk is either of those guys the Oil are sitting pretty in goal.

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06-03-2013, 05:23 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Lots of flaws in your arguments there.

1) Comparing the value of our forwards to that of LA using points alone is ridiculous. LAK's top6 have always been great 2way players, capable of playing the physical game. In terms of pure offensive potential the Oilers are actually better off IMO, but that's not going to help when you don't have an elite transition game.

2) Don't ever compare Schultz to Drew Doughty again. If anything compare Klefbom's future potential for impact to Doughty's. A reach at best.

3) Vokoun has the second highest SV% of goalies who've played >5 seasons since the 05 lockout. Rask has a career SV% of 0.927. If Dubnyk is either of those guys the Oil are sitting pretty in goal.
Weird. I agree with you on all your points. Gonna have to insult you or something to balance it out.

I'd be very very happy if Dubnyk was close to Vokoun.

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06-03-2013, 06:49 PM
  #686
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I can't remember a defence group anywhere near as mobile or gifted as what Chicago has put together.

We all know about Keith & Seabrook....but...Leddy looks like a second coming of Keith when he decides to go with it and even Roszival....the apparent 6th guy....can skate.

This is a group which can cover the entire rink with ease.
There's a good reason that Chicago was the best defensive team in the NHL this year. And lets just say it wasn't Corey Crawford.

LA's hard forecheck caused them some issues yesterday, but not enough to take advantage of. The thing about LA always finishing their checks is that if you're not selective enough about it, you get caught out of position and behind the play. Chicago is the best transition team in the league, and used this to create numerous odd man situations, several of which they scored on.

I think LA pretty much played the same game they've been playing all along. They scored 2 goals, which is usually enough for them to win. But Chicago's speed and transition (aspects completely absent from the Sharks and Blues) caused them rarely seen defensive breakdowns.

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Old
06-03-2013, 07:40 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Lots of flaws in your arguments there.

1) Comparing the value of our forwards to that of LA using points alone is ridiculous. LAK's top6 have always been great 2way players, capable of playing the physical game. In terms of pure offensive potential the Oilers are actually better off IMO, but that's not going to help when you don't have an elite transition game.

2) Don't ever compare Schultz to Drew Doughty again. If anything compare Klefbom's future potential for impact to Doughty's. A reach at best.

3) Vokoun has the second highest SV% of goalies who've played >5 seasons since the 05 lockout. Rask has a career SV% of 0.927. If Dubnyk is either of those guys the Oil are sitting pretty in goal.
1st off, LA's forwards haven't always been great 2 way players. That's ridiculous. How do you explain Philly finishing dead last in the league in 2006-2007? Or Dustin Brown's first 4 years in the league, +/- was -10,-21,-13,-15? Or Kopitar's first 3 years? -12,-15,-17. Must be all that great 2 way play.

2ndly, mentioning 2 people in one sentence isn't comparing them. I'm not saying their equal, I'm saying that Schultz put up better numbers than him this year. It's a fact, gonna argue it? He put up all star offensive numbers for a defenceman, and he's in his rookie year. My point was that he could be an all star caliber defenceman, in time.

3rdly. Vokoun is 36 years old. I'm not comparing him to his past, I'm saying right now, Dubnyk is the equivalent of Vokoun.. at 36. He's a Corey Crawford. Not saying that he is "the answer" or a world beater, I'm saying he's the equivalent of the goalies on two teams who were built in the same fashion as the Oilers(ie: got their better players through the draft)

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06-03-2013, 07:58 PM
  #688
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And just to round out what I'm saying, Carter and Richards were -17, and -12 respectively the year they were on the last place philly team, and scored 37, and 32 points respectively. They were 22, and 21 years old.

Dubnyk is 27, when Vokoun was 27 he'd had a couple years in the .900-.910 range, and one year at .918. In the dead puck era.

You are comparing people in their prime to kids just entering into the league.


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06-03-2013, 07:58 PM
  #689
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Quote:
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1st off, LA's forwards haven't always been great 2 way players. That's ridiculous. How do you explain Philly finishing dead last in the league in 2006-2007? Or Dustin Brown's first 4 years in the league, +/- was -10,-21,-13,-15? Or Kopitar's first 3 years? -12,-15,-17. Must be all that great 2 way play.
Draft time write-ups on the mentioned players:

Mike Richards:

Quote:
...Defensively, as he showed in the Memorial Cup, he seems to bear down especially hard on draws in his own end and more than holds his own against bigger players. ...
Jeff Carter
Quote:
...For his present level of play, he already is a responsible defensive player, a good faceoff man and a strong forechecker. ...
Dustin Brown

Quote:
Capable of playing solid defense, he has been rewarded with penalty killing duties throughout the year. He doesn't get intimidated by physical opposition and is willing and able to use his frame to his advantage in front of the net and along the boards.
You're right about Kopitar, his defensive game wasn't established early on. But within 2-3 years he was already a stud in that facet.

Good defensive players will look bad if their team struggles. Even 2-time Selke winner Rod Brind'amour was below -20 when Carolina struggled. Your argument is pointless when you're talking about these players playing on piss-poor teams. You didn't even watch them play in those years did you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tw0Shoes View Post
2ndly, mentioning 2 people in one sentence isn't comparing them. I'm not saying their equal, I'm saying that Schultz put up better numbers than him this year. It's a fact, gonna argue it? He put up all star offensive numbers for a defenceman, and he's in his rookie year. My point was that he could be an all star caliber defenceman, in time.
Again with the over-reliance on offensive numbers. Is that the only measure of a defenseman's game? Why didn't Sergei Gonchar ever win a Norris? Mark Streit? Sheldon Souray? More appropriate comps would be a guy like MDZ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tw0Shoes View Post
3rdly. Vokoun is 36 years old. I'm not comparing him to his past, I'm saying right now, Dubnyk is the equivalent of Vokoun.. at 36. He's a Corey Crawford. Not saying that he is "the answer" or a world beater, I'm saying he's the equivalent of the goalies on two teams who were built in the same fashion as the Oilers(ie: got their better players through the draft)
36-year old Vokoun, the man with a 0.919 SV% in the regular season and 0.937 SV% in the playoffs. If Dubnyk is that player then the Oilers are set in net for the next decade.

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06-03-2013, 08:14 PM
  #690
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Man, that was a soft play by Crosby 30 seconds into a game.

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06-03-2013, 08:21 PM
  #691
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Dumb is the more suitable word IMO.

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06-03-2013, 08:26 PM
  #692
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And yet they couldn't do it in the big leagues when they first got here. What's your point? Their teams were **** because they relied on players who weren't ready, like the Oilers. How long did LA go without making the playoffs? 6 years. Philly turned it around because they did a bunch of free agent signings that summer. I did watch some games, more so philly than la, but no I did not watch them play that often, did you? I'm comparing guys on a **** team to guys that were on a **** team at the same age. How does your arguement hold up when the oilers are a **** team? Maybe Hall/Eberle/Nugent-Hopkins/Yakupov's great defensive game is just being disguised by our **** team. Blah blah blah.

Gonchar/Streit/Souray. Were all those defencemen All-Stars? Yes. Has Drew Doughty won a Norris? No. Did I say All-Star Dman? Yes. Did I say Norris? No.

Did Dubnyk have better than a .919 sv % this year? Yes. In the playoffs? ... well he didn't let in a goal.

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06-03-2013, 08:36 PM
  #693
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Poor Pittsburgh, they look like ****! Omgoodness... getting absolutely schooled!

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06-03-2013, 08:37 PM
  #694
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See you next year Pittsburgh. Sorry Iggy, scoring against the Islanders isn't quite the same as trying to score against the 2011 Cup champs.

EDIT: 3-0. Wow.

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06-03-2013, 08:38 PM
  #695
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3-0 Bean-town in the first.

It's not good for the overall good of the game attracting new fans, but part of me wants both Conference finals to be sweeps and the final to be a short series, be it a sweep or 5 game series.

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06-03-2013, 08:40 PM
  #696
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I just can't get over how bad Pittsburgh looks for a supposed elite team with lots of great players... It's embarrassing.

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06-03-2013, 08:40 PM
  #697
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That was a pretty passing play.

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06-03-2013, 08:46 PM
  #698
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4-1 Boston, after the first period;just imagine if this series ends in a sweep.

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06-03-2013, 08:48 PM
  #699
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Pittsburgh finally lights the lamp. #parade

All sarcasm aside... Pittsburgh is the one team that can explode and bury a team no matter how much they are trailing. Wouldn't count them out but certainly a pathetic start to the series for them.

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06-03-2013, 08:50 PM
  #700
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Put Vokoun back in for the second period

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