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Old
05-17-2013, 05:46 PM
  #426
caps4cup
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Originally Posted by DanTHEMan71 View Post
Imagine if Backstrom had the heart of MP85. Everyone here, and myself included, wouldn't even considering trading him. It seem like Nicky's lost his extra gear and scoring touch over the last couple years. I'd attribute that to his injuries and the constant staff changes we've gone through.

Like all players his age, he could very well regain his form very soon. I'm hoping he does because we can't really trade him if we want to compete for the playoffs next year. I can't see us getting equal present value for him this summer. We'd get mostly futures pieces that wouldn't pay dividends until at least 2 years down the road. We really just have to wait it out with him because, whether we like his recent play or not, his contract has ridiculous value for his upside.
There's no way we are trading Backstrom and no way it should even be brought up. He is a young center who will produce over a PPG, and is fantastic defensively. If we see a continuation of the last 2/3rds of this season next year, Backstrom will likely be a 90 point player at least, while helping OV get back to the 50 goal mark. Just because he had 1 bad playoff series doesn't mean he should be traded. There'd be no way to replace him in our lineup and he's way too valuable to be traded.

Everyone needs to just step off the ledge. Backstrom traded? Green traded? Calm down.

Why would you trade a center that will score over a point per game with great defense or a Dman that can score 25 goals and a point per game? Especially when they're clearly irreplaceable...

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05-17-2013, 07:25 PM
  #427
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I want something like this.

Eart-Backs-Ovi
Laich- Ribs/?????-Brow
Wilson-Latta-Ward
Hendricks-Beagle-MP85

Green -Alzner
NEW DAMN DMAN-Carlson
Erskine/Oleksy-Hillen

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Old
05-17-2013, 07:41 PM
  #428
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I wish Backs would shoot the damn puck. Watching Crosby, there's nothing great about these plays. He's just getting the puck on net with a flustered goalie.

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05-17-2013, 07:42 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
I want something like this.

Eart-Backs-Ovi
Laich- Ribs/?????-Brow
Wilson-Latta-Ward
Hendricks-Beagle-MP85

Green -Alzner
NEW DAMN DMAN-Carlson
Erskine/Oleksy-Hillen
Why?

Our 3rd line was great and Wilson's a RW. Why would you move Perro to 4RW?

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05-17-2013, 07:57 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
I want something like this.

Eart-Backs-Ovi
Laich- Ribs/?????-Brow
Wilson-Latta-Ward
Hendricks-Beagle-MP85

Green -Alzner
NEW DAMN DMAN-Carlson
Erskine/Oleksy-Hillen
What makes you think either should be ahead of Perreault, or on the 3rd line?

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Old
05-17-2013, 08:10 PM
  #431
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Where do people honestly see Orlov fitting in at this point? For the time being I don't know that there is an everyday spot in the roster, unless he plays 2LD. Is he pretty much destined for Hershey next year at this point? I guess the same can be asked of Kundratek, really.


Also, is LD a real option for Orlov at this point? I know he played right most of, if not all, of last year, and IIRC there were issues with him playing the left side for whatever reason.

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05-17-2013, 08:11 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Dr John Carlson View Post
What makes you think either should be ahead of Perreault, or on the 3rd line?
Well I love 85, but I want a whole line dedicated to forecheck and physicality that plays more than 5 min a game. I think that 3rd line would do wonders for us.

Unless of course, Oates is willing to pull a Hunter and use the 4th line more than 2 min a game. It is just a idea.

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05-17-2013, 08:28 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Fitlanbox View Post
Where do people honestly see Orlov fitting in at this point? For the time being I don't know that there is an everyday spot in the roster, unless he plays 2LD. Is he pretty much destined for Hershey next year at this point? I guess the same can be asked of Kundratek, really.


Also, is LD a real option for Orlov at this point? I know he played right most of, if not all, of last year, and IIRC there were issues with him playing the left side for whatever reason.

I see him fitting in Hershey, sadly.

I suspect it was a mistake to move him to LD. Playing defense is not like playing forward. Its not nearly as easy. He is a RD and looked more comfortable to me there. Even at RD he may now be 5th on the depth chart. Injuries costs jobs in sports. Orlov and Kundratek know all about it.

The best thing he has going for him was a weak playoffs from Erskine, and the fact that he and Hillen seem a bit injury prone.

But with the S* trio Schultz Schilling and Schmidt, chances may be far and few between for him. He may be 5th or even 6th on the LD depth chart.

I have not liked George's development of our prospects and Orlov's stock is dropping.

I see him losing trade value in all this. Probably Schilling and others too. Heck Sarge may not even fetch a 7th at this point.

We are not that stocked in DC that our guys in Hershey are automatically studs. This is not Detroit.

I feel bad for Orlov, and injuries may have a big hand in it. I had him penciled in for 3RD to start this year. Now I do not project him in our lineup at all next year.

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05-17-2013, 09:34 PM
  #434
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New here still getting the hang of this.

But idk how we could possibly swing this considering the cap situation, but all I know is that we have way too many playmakers (with the exception of OV and i guess brouws)in our top 6. We need guys that fire the puck. Yeah Brouwer has a heavy shot, but who knows if hell produce like he did this year next season.

Call me crazy but I think Fehr has top 6 ability, I don't think he's in the best role that suits his best attributes. Yeah he's played great on the 3rd line, but the guy has skill, and can fire it.


And...the D..is just a mess. Way too many bottom pair guys. It's unreal.

I mean ersksie defiantly stepped up this year, and I appreciate that, but he's a bottom pair/maybe scratch guy anywhere else in this league. He struggles with his mobility and making a simple pass out of the zone and he doesnt get the puck up&out when needed. When he's on the ice we get hemmed in our zone so often.

Hillen, he has puck moving upside, but he gets tossed around like a rag doll.

Greenie, yeah, obviously a great offensive defenseman, but Jesus how many chances are we gonna give him to be better defensively? Points don't make it better when you consider how awful he is defensively. He tries toe dragging through everyone in every situation. Put Him at foward for all I care. Doesn't he know that he can basically be a one man breakout every time out of the zone (given his skating ability)?
Why doesn't he learn?

I think Alzner is great. He is our most reliable D man, but needs to gain confidence with his offensive ability.

Carlson is still progressing and is a good pick moving guy.

I can go on and on about the D, but who are the geniuses that scout the defensemen we bring to our team? We went a few years where we Only drafte Offensive D men. Who does that?

Lastly (and I apologize for ranting, It's just very frustrating being a caps fan), why don't we try throwing some of our skilled fowards out on the PK every once in a while? And why are we so dang passive?

When we lose, the excuse is always "we had to kill to many penalties, our penalty killers were dead and no one else got the chance to be on the ice"

Teach and rely on other guys to kill (at least every once in a while). They're pro hockey players, they can figure it out how to be effective on the PK.

Meh

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Old
05-17-2013, 10:00 PM
  #435
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On the Orlov issue, I think he's the second best LD in the organization at this point. If they don't acquire anyone in the offseason, they have to give him a chance to beat out Hillen for his spot.

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Old
05-17-2013, 10:29 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by StyGuy View Post
But idk how we could possibly swing this considering the cap situation, but all I know is that we have way too many playmakers (with the exception of OV and i guess brouws)in our top 6. We need guys that fire the puck. Yeah Brouwer has a heavy shot, but who knows if hell produce like he did this year next season.

Call me crazy but I think Fehr has top 6 ability, I don't think he's in the best role that suits his best attributes. Yeah he's played great on the 3rd line, but the guy has skill, and can fire it.


And...the D..is just a mess. Way too many bottom pair guys. It's unreal.

I mean ersksie defiantly stepped up this year, and I appreciate that, but he's a bottom pair/maybe scratch guy anywhere else in this league. He struggles with his mobility and making a simple pass out of the zone and he doesnt get the puck up&out when needed. When he's on the ice we get hemmed in our zone so often.

Hillen, he has puck moving upside, but he gets tossed around like a rag doll.

Greenie, yeah, obviously a great offensive defenseman, but Jesus how many chances are we gonna give him to be better defensively? Points don't make it better when you consider how awful he is defensively. He tries toe dragging through everyone in every situation. Put Him at foward for all I care. Doesn't he know that he can basically be a one man breakout every time out of the zone (given his skating ability)?
Why doesn't he learn?

I think Alzner is great. He is our most reliable D man, but needs to gain confidence with his offensive ability.

Carlson is still progressing and is a good pick moving guy.

I can go on and on about the D, but who are the geniuses that scout the defensemen we bring to our team? We went a few years where we Only drafte Offensive D men. Who does that?

Lastly (and I apologize for ranting, It's just very frustrating being a caps fan), why don't we try throwing some of our skilled fowards out on the PK every once in a while? And why are we so dang passive?

When we lose, the excuse is always "we had to kill to many penalties, our penalty killers were dead and no one else got the chance to be on the ice"

Teach and rely on other guys to kill (at least every once in a while). They're pro hockey players, they can figure it out how to be effective on the PK.

Meh
I don't think we need another top 6 winger at this time. Ovi,Mojo,Laich,Erat,Brouwer is already one too many and I agree about Fehr having the ability to be in the top 6 but with his contract we can keep him on the 3rd and just move him up when injuries come.

Obviously you are right about our defense.

As for skilled guys on the PK we have Backstrom, Johansson, Green, and Carlson constantly on the PK and I would consider them all fairly skilled unless you want to put Ovechkin there.

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Old
05-17-2013, 10:41 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
I wish Backs would shoot the damn puck. Watching Crosby, there's nothing great about these plays. He's just getting the puck on net with a flustered goalie.

Agreed. Backstrom is a solid 1C but not a star, unfortunately. He was great in the Habs series but we had no center depth that year.

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Old
05-18-2013, 12:30 AM
  #438
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Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but what do you think the Caps would want for Neuvirth? Same package as Varlamov? I think the Devils will role with Brodeur/Hedberg again since both are under contract next year with no trade clauses. Neither are under contract for 14/15 though. Like what I've seen from him, and think he'd make a solid starter somewhere. I know you guys just extended him, but with Holtby being the definite number 1 now I figure he could be dangled for a trade.

Since we'll be in the same division after this year maybe McPhee/Lamoriello won't wanna do this trade, but it's something to think about. Thanks in advance.

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Old
05-18-2013, 12:32 AM
  #439
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You guise want to fix it? Wait a week(maybe 2 or 3), then you'll be too ashamed to post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
What?
Clearly the situation is our fault. We are bad and we should feel bad.

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Old
05-18-2013, 01:17 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
I don't think we need another top 6 winger at this time. Ovi,Mojo,Laich,Erat,Brouwer is already one too many and I agree about Fehr having the ability to be in the top 6 but with his contract we can keep him on the 3rd and just move him up when injuries come.

Obviously you are right about our defense.

As for skilled guys on the PK we have Backstrom, Johansson, Green, and Carlson constantly on the PK and I would consider them all fairly skilled unless you want to put Ovechkin there.
True, maybe what I'm trying to say is...just balance the PK out throughout the lineup so guys can stay in the flow of the game, and maybe have it be more aggressive (why not ovi? just make sure he lnows what hes doing) so we can create short handed chances, we could have a dangerous PK with the right philosophy. I feel like the excuse of guys being to tired from PK'ing when we lose is a cop out of some sort, it's like Oates accepts a loss if we're in the box a little too much.

And I know we're kind of set with our top 6 (minus ribs obviously) but there's hardly any snipers in it. Yeah ovi is but who else? Brouws?

Johansson passes too much and doesn't have killer instinct when it comes to burying it, and Erat isn't necessarily a sniper, I see him as a playmaker for the most part.

I just wish a tweak or two to address that was remotely possible, I think we'd be even more formidable in the playoffs with guys that fire it when they have the chance.

Backy and ribs never shoot the puck which (even though they're primarily setup guys) really bothers me, I mean you miss 100% of the shots you dont take right? I feel like that's a huge reason we couldn't score. I'm sick of hearing stuff like "oh the rangers just block everything and lunquist stole the series".

I dont recall seeing our team throw everything possible at the net to see what will happen much like the rangers did against us. (And how they ultimately beat is in game 7)

Granted I know that's not really our system but I didn't even see us do it in times of dire need of a goal.

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05-18-2013, 05:29 AM
  #441
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I see him fitting in Hershey, sadly.

I suspect it was a mistake to move him to LD. Playing defense is not like playing forward. Its not nearly as easy. He is a RD and looked more comfortable to me there. Even at RD he may now be 5th on the depth chart. Injuries costs jobs in sports. Orlov and Kundratek know all about it.

The best thing he has going for him was a weak playoffs from Erskine, and the fact that he and Hillen seem a bit injury prone.

But with the S* trio Schultz Schilling and Schmidt, chances may be far and few between for him. He may be 5th or even 6th on the LD depth chart.

I have not liked George's development of our prospects and Orlov's stock is dropping.

I see him losing trade value in all this. Probably Schilling and others too. Heck Sarge may not even fetch a 7th at this point.

We are not that stocked in DC that our guys in Hershey are automatically studs. This is not Detroit.

I feel bad for Orlov, and injuries may have a big hand in it. I had him penciled in for 3RD to start this year. Now I do not project him in our lineup at all next year.
I did not see anything in his play, frankly, that made his stock drop. In fact, I found him, in the few games he played, to be one of the more effective guys at calmly finding the right outlets under pressure and getting the puck out of our defensive zone. I'm completely befuddled by how the Caps have handled him this season.

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05-18-2013, 05:59 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
On the Orlov issue, I think he's the second best LD in the organization at this point. If they don't acquire anyone in the offseason, they have to give him a chance to beat out Hillen for his spot.
Upside depth chart he can be a 1LD. Alzner seemed to take major strides offensively to close out the year, including 7 shots in game 7. 2LD may be it. 3LD may be meeting reasonable goal at this point.

More than Hillen taking his spot in the lineup is, he has not had a good 13 months. He was a scratch in the playoffs last year and was concussed this year. I don't want to know the count.

His time in Hershey healthy he didn't seem to impress/no good reports posted here. Where was he on Hershey's LD depth to close out the year?

Regardless he is going to have to impress in camp to beat out Hillen. Hillen's stock rose this year and is a coaches fav and think will be tough to bump out. I can see them serving the same role but wonder if his transition to LD is complete.

Hillen is cheaper if we are forced to count beans.

I also see George having to rethink his entire D plan (what is the 2LD role / demote Erskine, who was just inked) and decide to go younger next year. The only glimmer of hope I saw this year is that he was recalled briefly from Hershey even though he was not playing well.

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05-18-2013, 06:58 AM
  #443
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I also see George having to rethink his entire D plan (what is the 2LD role / demote Erskine, who was just inked) and decide to go younger next year.
That way he has to come up to the need of 2LD at all.

If McPhee figures that Erskine/Hillen can't do the job he will have Orlov and not much else potentially (Schmidt? Doubt it after Justin Schultz's defensive play).

Or trade. Which will be prohibited by the cap.

So that could be done this way:

Drop Schultz, trade Erskine and promote Orlov. Hillen is another LD in the roster.

Schmidt/Schilling are first to call-up. If there is an injury or Orlov doesn't cut it, try Schmidt.

Expecting Orlov to outplay Hillen (with a season under Oates already) out of training camp isn't reasonable.

But expecting Orlov to play better (than Hillen) in post-season after one full regular season under Oates? Yeah, sign me up. Will George see it in such way?

Heck, maybe we should have Alzner-Orlov-Schmidt at some point @ LD. How would we get there through Schultz and Erskine and Hillen?

Anyway, Hillen is a good backup plan for regular season if Orlov/Schmidt aren't blossoming. And a cheap one!

After all, what's the point of getting into playoffs with Erskine? Another exit. Even if younger LD will have their share of blunders - teach them better.

Also, there is not much talk about CalleJo!

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05-18-2013, 08:15 AM
  #444
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While it shouldn't in theory take much to beat others for the 2LD spot, I wrote him into the 3RD spot a year ago, and yet he never got close to that this year. Moving into the 2LD spot just seems a huge leap.

The two guys in front of him at LD now just got new contracts. Heck throw in Alzner, all 3. From early post season reports, GM is happy with his roster and I do not see Erskine nor Hillen moved.

While I want Orlov to be our 2LD I have lowered expectations after his somewhat of a disappearing act this past year.

He will have to exceed expectations to be our 2. He must punk out Hillen in camp. Start a fight and George will love him again. Sadly, I think he has to wow but we all know GM's will take the bait. Hit, be seen. It's not difficult.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 05-18-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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05-18-2013, 11:06 AM
  #445
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I don't think we need another top 6 winger at this time. Ovi,Mojo,Laich,Erat,Brouwer is already one too many and I agree about Fehr having the ability to be in the top 6 but with his contract we can keep him on the 3rd and just move him up when injuries come.

Obviously you are right about our defense.

As for skilled guys on the PK we have Backstrom, Johansson, Green, and Carlson constantly on the PK and I would consider them all fairly skilled unless you want to put Ovechkin there.
As you say, add Fehr to that list and you have too many....turn one of them (plus+ if necessary) into a top four D-Man....

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05-18-2013, 11:08 AM
  #446
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on the subject of 19.....you would be hard pressed to find a bigger fan but I consider moving him in the right deal.... not sure what that is, likely one where he is the best player in the trade but if the return was significant enough I would at least listen

other than 8, 27, 74 im not sure there is a player I wouldnt look at moving

EDIT:

Prlly add 20 to that list

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05-18-2013, 11:08 AM
  #447
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so...you visualize backstrom as the second coming of bengt gustafsson?

those 80s teams. they were the blue collar version of the ovechkin capitals. an elite regular season team that consistantly failed to finish early round playoff series where they held an advantage. thats the only difference.

bengt was a great hockey player. far better than his stats ever showed that he was. how many times is his name on the stanley cup?
Actually, yes. I do visualize Backstrom sort of like Gustafsson..... but Backstrom has more raw talent and offensive prowess. I think the Caps need to have some more "blue collar" approach to them. The problem is, if we look closely at recent history, it takes certain types of superstars to fit into a blue collar mentality. Crosby and Malkin with Pens and Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Zetterberg comes to mind. Same with Kopitar and Doughty.

The biggest problem I see with the Caps is that Ovechkin IS their team, their identity, their leader and go-to guy. I don't think he is capable of leading his team to a title and I think the team sort of revolves around him and his game. Same with Green.... I don't think he's cut from champion cloth.

The way I see it.... if the Caps don't think they can win the cheese with Ovie and Green, they need to do something bold. Because with each disappointing exit, I think the mental toll it takes on Ovechkin, the team and the fans is taxing. When teams are built around one megastar, there is unlimited pressure and angst that comes with that. It happened in Boston with Raymond Bourque and in Philly with Eric Lindros.

Back to my point on Backstrom..... I think he is the TYPE of superstar that will gel well with a group of hardworking players as well as talented ones. Like most Swedes, he don't have the "superstar" ego or mentality..... he's like Zetterberg and Kopitar like that.

Green has always been more fluff than stuff to me. Highlight reel player who just doesn't have "it" when it matters most. He produced on the ice when healthy but he isn't the type of anchor who can carry a defense on his back... yet he is paid like one. Ovechkin is a megastar who raises fans from their seats.... a lot like Pavel Bure used to...... but he also can't put a team on his shoulders and lead them like a Crosby, Toews, Brown, etc. With each big loss I can sense the toll is enormous on Ovechkin. He's been compared to Crosby and Malkin since day one and still has no Cup and is considered an "underachiever" by many hockey pundits. I think this just keeps getting worse.

All of that said, McPhee is a terrible GM in my opinion. And, Leonsis is a marketing man and salesman, and if he thinks moving Ovechkin is a poor business decision, he will never make that type of move.

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05-18-2013, 11:41 AM
  #448
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We arent moving backstrom. Get off the damn pipe. Number 1 centers just come out of thin air right?

Jesus

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05-18-2013, 02:35 PM
  #449
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You know what all those players you mentioned had that Ovechkin has never had? A good defense.

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05-18-2013, 02:51 PM
  #450
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* backstrom is not a star? by what definintion? he was 3rd in the league in assists. he's been an allstar. he's been a 100pt player. what about him is not a star?

* 2LD: My read is that Erskine is 2LD to start next season with the idea that either Orlov or Schmidt move him off of it as the season progresses. To do that one of them will have to play Hillen to the 7d backup role and start the season as 3LD. Its just my uneducated view that Orlov is not comfortable on LD and will be traded if he doesnt comform and Schmidt will start the season in Washington next season.

* 3rd line: No the caps arent going to start the season with two rookies on the 3rd line. I can see both Wilson and Latta on the roster but not on the same line.

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