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05-20-2013, 11:57 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Ugggghhhh.
Say what you want about Matty P - at least he was willing to go to the front of the net (and got rewarded for doing so), which is more than you can say for our entire first line for vast stretches of games 3-7.

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05-20-2013, 12:13 PM
  #527
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Seemed to me guys like Callahan and Dorsett drew quite a few penalties. Not sure why you always equate agitators with MORE penalties.

Dino, Courtnall, and Hunter all seemed to take penalties but drew more than they took.

Yes we do need more toughness. We don't have enough. We have tried the skill player route time and time again to no avail.
i equate elbows and crosschecking and roughing with penalties. i noticed the capitals getting for more of those things than the rangers. yes callahan and dorsett got away with some hideous things. i am not sure why you equate the rangers getting away with it with the capitals getting away with it as they were clearly not already. here you say the caps needed more of that.

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05-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #528
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No arguments, regarding our core/captaincy vs other championship caliber teams.
And for the record, I get that a core overhaul isn't easy, its not even likely. Its not like GMGM (or hopefully the new GM if Ted pulls his head out of his unowut) can simply put up a for sale sign on the core four and get the right return. Changing the core is both hard and risky. Staying the course is easy and will achieve predictable results - more regular season success and playoff failures.

So my point is that until we get a GM who truly holds the players and coaches accountable for their failings, and until we change the culture that accepts losing and makes excuses, nothing will really change. Better puck luck may land us a single series win, but it will not carry us to the Cup finals. The refs have never costs us a series. Our response to officiating variance is what cost us the series. But then both Ovi and GMGM put the blame on officiating in their subtle yet obvious post series pressers. No accountability at all.

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05-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #529
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I hope they keep Schultz and make him 2LD, too. Silver linings!
Based on the way McPhee aggressively pursued a $4.5 medium term redundancy, you'll get your wish!

Laich-Ovechkin-Backstrom
Erat-Johansson-Brouwer
Chimera-Perreault-Ward
Wilson-Beagle-Fehr
Volpatti

Alzner-Green
Schultz-Carlson
Erskine-Oleksy
Hillen

Holtby
Neuvirth

Assuming Alzner at $3.5 and Johansson at $2.2, that vomit-inducing 23 man roster is over the cap at $65,028,463.

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05-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #530
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Thoughts on Clarkson?

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:22 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i equate elbows and crosschecking and roughing with penalties. i noticed the capitals getting for more of those things than the rangers. yes callahan and dorsett got away with some hideous things. i am not sure why you equate the rangers getting away with it with the capitals getting away with it as they were clearly not already. here you say the caps needed more of that.
Because in hockey the refs always seem to catch the retaliators..not the initiators. We don't initiate enough.

We've seen this time and time again in the playoffs over the past 6 years with the Caps. We are always responding to guys like Upshall, Hartnell, Marchand, Callahan and Dorsett and they are always diving, headbobbing and initiating.

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05-20-2013, 12:23 PM
  #532
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Question for those suggesting moving Neuvy. Are you proposing that Grubauer moves up or sign a free agent for a year? Just asking because after only 1 year pro split between Reading and Hershey not sure Grubauer is ready to make that jump. I would like to see him be the man for an entire season in HErshey 1st.

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05-20-2013, 12:24 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by kicksavedave View Post
Are you for real? You really can't tell the difference between aggressive, gritty play and penalties? .
i am for real. yes. i just checked. i pinched myself. i am real. mr bobrouse wants agitators. he wants some good dirty hockey.

aggressive and gritty play is what jay beagle and matt hendricks bring at a low level and what troy brouwer brings and a higher level. none of those players are like dorsett at the lower end or dale hunter at the high end.

what br wants is jarko ruutu or in his dreams the second coming of ken linsman. not the second coming of steve konowalchuk or ulf dahlen

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05-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by kicksavedave View Post
And for the record, I get that a core overhaul isn't easy, its not even likely. Its not like GMGM (or hopefully the new GM if Ted pulls his head out of his unowut) can simply put up a for sale sign on the core four and get the right return. Changing the core is both hard and risky. Staying the course is easy and will achieve predictable results - more regular season success and playoff failures.

So my point is that until we get a GM who truly holds the players and coaches accountable for their failings, and until we change the culture that accepts losing and makes excuses, nothing will really change. Better puck luck may land us a single series win, but it will not carry us to the Cup finals. The refs have never costs us a series. Our response to officiating variance is what cost us the series. But then both Ovi and GMGM put the blame on officiating in their subtle yet obvious post series pressers. No accountability at all.
Yeah, i'm with you. The best we can do with GMGM still at the helm is add parts that can give us a better chance. Thats really all I am suggesting. I do think we are a 2/3 pieces from a run into 3rd round territory, but agree with the core we have I'm not sure we have what it takes for a championship.

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05-20-2013, 12:33 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Because in hockey the refs always seem to catch the retaliators..not the initiators. We don't initiate enough.

We've seen this time and time again in the playoffs over the past 6 years with the Caps. We are always responding to guys like Upshall, Hartnell, Marchand, Callahan and Dorsett and they are always diving, headbobbing and initiating.
not in the case of the caps. they got tagged for initiating and retaliating. ov's charging and roughing penalties were for first contact. when erskine put a forearm on callahan and took roughing penalty after the whistle, that was not retaliation either.

green's penalty for crosschecking was more or hitting him after the ref chose not to call a penaly than the crosscheck. green drew blood and that should have been a major penalty. my read on that was that the referee acknowledged the slew foot and told green he wasnt calling a penalty. then green hit dorsett.

so...it was not about first contact or retaliation.

we talked much during the playoffs. you said the refs wouldnt keep calling the games to lopsided and the caps needed to step up their physical play. they did and the result was more penalties.

lets be honest. you like old tyme hockey. you like more fighting and like more hitting and, yes...you like more dirty stuff. to me that playoff series showed that if the caps step up to your way of play they will just have to kill more penalties.

i hope you get what you want though, so we can put that style aside.

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05-20-2013, 12:37 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Lefty9420 View Post
Also factor in that many of the same issues facing the team this year were ones that were facing the team last year. This past offseason GMGM's biggest move was acquiring Joey *** Crabb, who spent most of the year in Hershey.
Ribero?

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #537
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George having a plan is like Spicoli's dad having an ultimate set of tools

Jay Beagle aggressive and gritty play?

Team worst minus this year, soft as a kitten... I hope Latta gets a long look. Shakeups do not need to come from the top down. Beagle can be our 5C/7RW next year. I don't think you will notice him missing. He dominated under Dale and Dale rode the hot hand, much to the dismay of many.

This past season, he did not impress me much if at all.

Patti Latta Wilson

Wilson can get PP time and bump ups. The season need not be a development write off because I wrote him into a 4RW slot in May.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
George having a plan is like Spicoli's dad having an ultimate set of tools

Jay Beagle aggressive and gritty play?

Team worst minus this year, soft as a kitten... I hope Latta gets a long look. Shakeups do not need to come from the top down. Beagle can be our 5C/7RW next year. I don't think you will notice him missing. He dominated under Dale and Dale rode the hot hand. This past season he did not impress me much if at all.
I thought Beagle was VERY underwhelming this year. He better come back with more of a gritty side if he wants to stick here.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:45 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
George having a plan is like Spicoli's dad having an ultimate set of tools

Jay Beagle aggressive and gritty play?

Team worst minus this year, soft as a kitten... I hope Latta gets a long look. Shakeups do not need to come from the top down. Beagle can be our 5C/7RW next year. I don't think you will notice him missing. He dominated under Dale and Dale rode the hot hand. This past season he did not impress me much if at all.
Have to agree with this too, was not impressed with Beagle like i was last year. Would love to see Latta make the jump, I'm torn with Wilson though (whether we should rush him or not). I think he is ready though.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:52 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
i am for real. yes. i just checked. i pinched myself. i am real. mr bobrouse wants agitators. he wants some good dirty hockey.

aggressive and gritty play is what jay beagle and matt hendricks bring at a low level and what troy brouwer brings and a higher level. none of those players are like dorsett at the lower end or dale hunter at the high end.

what br wants is jarko ruutu or in his dreams the second coming of ken linsman. not the second coming of steve konowalchuk or ulf dahlen
So our 4th liners bring a small amount of aggressive and gritty play, so we're all set there? As already pointed out, Brouwer hits, but is otherwise not any sort of an agitator or highly gritty. Certainly the rest of our top six is still sorely lacking in toughness, grit, feistyness, and ultimately, heart. Ribs, no, Erat, no, MoJo, LOL no, Backstrom, not any more. So that leaves Ovi.

I think what BR is saying is not that he wants dirty hockey. Its that we're tired of being on the wrong end of the retaliation penalty, or the uncalled initiation penalty. Basically tired of getting pushed around and showing up for game 7 flat as a pancake, already defeated before the puck even drops. Ultimately teams impose their will in the playoffs. The ones that do, succeed. The ones that are dictated to, fail and then make excuses. This team simply lacks any presence who will do whatever it takes to win, over 60 minutes and 7 games. The Rangers simply wanted it more than us.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #541
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Have to agree with this too, was not impressed with Beagle like i was last year. Would love to see Latta make the jump, I'm torn with Wilson though (whether we should rush him or not). I think he is ready though.
Beagle getting his jaw smashed in by Asham may have softened his game a little. I get that it happened in Oct 2011 and he played hard for the rest of that season when he came back, but ultimately the guy brings very little grit or toughness to the 4th line.

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05-20-2013, 01:06 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
I thought Beagle was VERY underwhelming this year. He better come back with more of a gritty side if he wants to stick here.
In all discussions what is lost is, what does coach O want from his 4th line?

I thought Ward on 4 was a waste and killed our energy lines... energy. But Ward had to be in the lineup. Next year it will likely be Fehr at 4RW. Those are goal scorers.

Is it a goal for GM's to have 4 scoring lines because they have 5 goal scoring RW's?

Without a checking line, that 4th line has to have a clear role and be constructed wisely. They are the only changeup/unique line out there.

What I want on that 4th line is new blood. No, no pun intended, Tex. It's not easy to broker deals for Nick and Ovi. It's much easier to not re-ink Hendricks and see if we can survive. I think we can. Let's try Latta.

Do we need 2 more years of Beagle? If Oates wants 3 scoring lines and to refuse to match lines/check, he can be safely traded.

Wilson may be in Plymouth next year but personally think its a waste of his development. Letting him beat on the school boys in juniors seems the wrong move to me. Just because George has inked all our RW's for 2+ more years should not dictate what is best for Wilson.

RH's RW Depth Chart

King Ovi
Brouwer
Ward
Fehr
Wilson
Latta
Beagle
Crabb


Last edited by RandyHolt: 05-20-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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Old
05-20-2013, 01:08 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Lefty9420 View Post
Question for those suggesting moving Neuvy. Are you proposing that Grubauer moves up or sign a free agent for a year? Just asking because after only 1 year pro split between Reading and Hershey not sure Grubauer is ready to make that jump. I would like to see him be the man for an entire season in HErshey 1st.
I would sign a cheap veteran backup for this season, yeah, then bring up Grubauer for good the following season if he keeps performing. If Holtby is really going to carry 3/4 of the workload like he did this season, the quality of the backup is almost inconsequential. The difference between a .900 and a .920 backup is like 10 goals for a quarter season.

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05-20-2013, 01:11 PM
  #544
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Clarkson?

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05-20-2013, 01:13 PM
  #545
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Clarkson fell off in the second half, though that may just be that his shooting luck took a dive (though who knows what his true talent level is...)

I like the player, but he earned himself way more than you should pay for that skillset, I imagine. Plus Caps are loaded with righty wingers etc.

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05-20-2013, 01:31 PM
  #546
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More like over loaded with RW's.

While Latta and Beagle are centers first both can play RW. Beagle got quite a few games in at RW to start his career. I thought our 4th line looked best with him at RW.

George seems to have gloves!!1! type love moments and just re-inks without really thinking it through. Fehr for instance 2 more years at 1.5... I am not sure where he even fits in our lineup. Regardless if he is worth the contract / play level, where will he play?

I can understand trading Forsberg. Maybe not the return most wanted, but RW depth was deep.

He will really be off his rocker if he inks yet another RW vet without moving someone out. Lost his mind. Especially with Oates's stick on boards preference.

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05-20-2013, 01:39 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Assuming Alzner at $3.5 and Johansson at $2.2, that vomit-inducing 23 man roster is over the cap at $65,028,463.
Trade Holtby and either promote Grubauer or sign Toskala/bought out Bryz on the cheap/Cloutier/broke ass Theodore/Huet/Leighton and they're set.

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05-20-2013, 01:46 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Jay Beagle aggressive and gritty play? .
where did i say beagle was dirty?? he is an aggressive forechecker and a gritty player.

or...is aggressive meant only in a german shepard sort of way and gritty is a uphemisum for dirty?

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05-20-2013, 01:50 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by kicksavedave View Post
So our 4th liners bring a small amount of aggressive and gritty play, so we're all set there? As already pointed out, Brouwer hits, but is otherwise not any sort of an agitator or highly gritty. Certainly the rest of our top six is still sorely lacking in toughness, grit, feistyness, and ultimately, heart. Ribs, no, Erat, no, MoJo, LOL no, Backstrom, not any more. So that leaves Ovi.

I think what BR is saying is not that he wants dirty hockey. Its that we're tired of being on the wrong end of the retaliation penalty, or the uncalled initiation penalty. Basically tired of getting pushed around and showing up for game 7 flat as a pancake, already defeated before the puck even drops. Ultimately teams impose their will in the playoffs. The ones that do, succeed. The ones that are dictated to, fail and then make excuses. This team simply lacks any presence who will do whatever it takes to win, over 60 minutes and 7 games. The Rangers simply wanted it more than us.


where did i say brouwer was an agitator? i said brouwer was an aggressive and gritty player. some agitators are not terribly gritty. they are just dirty. thats how they agitate. they slash you behind the leg when noone is looking. they try and slew foot you. a slew foot is not gritty. its cheap.

as for what brouse wants. i have great respect for his views and i know his tastes. he likes dirty players. esa tikkanen-dirty. dale hunter-way dirty, dino ciccarelli-dirty. do you know a clean agitator? some are just dirtier than others. there was a reason kenny linsman was called "the rat"

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05-20-2013, 01:56 PM
  #550
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where did i say beagle was dirty?? he is an aggressive forechecker and a gritty player.

or...is aggressive meant only in a german shepard sort of way and gritty is a uphemisum for dirty?
Where did I say, that you said Beagle was dirty?

Is this that old media trick of repeating lies and hoping the masses eventually just blindly believe it as truth?

I do not consider him an aggressive forechecker nor a gritty player. He is a center and is up high, not in aggressively on the FC. Beagle plays a very respected and clean game. He doesn't hit very much at all. He does give a little nudge after the whistle sometimes.

I do realize it is the Tex definition of those words. But this the NHL, not the nobody hits league.

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