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It's over, now let's fix it. Keyboard GMs unite.

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Old
05-14-2013, 12:47 PM
  #76
CapGoodie
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No player has given this Caps fan as much joy as Ovechkin, but I'm losing patience with #8.

When there's a chance to bulldog someone through the glass, he's all in.

When there's a chance to score, he's all in.

When there's a chance to maybe hustle for five or six strides to the d-zone half-wall and chip a puck out of the zone - there are too many times he simply can't be bothered or thinks it's not his job. I'm not sure you create a winning culture around that.

I'd never expect or coach that guy to think defense first, but he takes personal vacations from plays/battles that don't interest him - even in crucial playoff situations and I've soured on watching it. I'm not sure exactly where I'd stand on the idea of moving him but IMO he was a big reason this series was lost. He's got to do a lot more than wallpaper a few guys here and there and then wait around for the easy offensive opportunities or PP's to fall into his lap. He did a disservice to the C on his jersey in these playoffs and I don't know how realistic it is to expect the rest of the team to win in spite of it.

Backstrom had a troubled series but I thought the effort and the willingness to sacrifice was still there. There were a ridiculous amount of terrible turnovers coming off his stick but I think it was just a tough stretch for Backstrom, who to me still has the ability to be a winner in big situations.

From an old time poster motivated by frustration to actually log in here again, I do agree with those that say the time has come to put the focus of change on this core group.....and I'd also agree it might make sense for the direction of that change to come from a different person in the GM's chair (and I'm a fan of GMGM).

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05-14-2013, 01:06 PM
  #77
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scuderi has two cups. so, it would take an overpayment to get him, but yea, he would be a good fit. i am not sure how that fixes the offensive vapor lock/annual choke that overcomes the lead players on this team. mike knuble couldnt fix it and karl alzner is still quoting him.

if the caps couldnt win a cup with rod langway, i am not sure how mike scuderi gets it done. but its worth a try.

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05-14-2013, 01:06 PM
  #78
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we're back to the random ovechkin bashing?


Last edited by ChibiPooky: 05-14-2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: not necessary
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Old
05-14-2013, 01:09 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DCRedhawk21 View Post
Very much this... but GMGM has passed on good top-4 LD options in the past (Willie Mitchell?) so I'm not anticipating this actually coming to fruition.
lets see what scuderi gets and whether you would pay it. willie mitchell was a bargain for who got him, but wasnt he pretty clear that he wanted to stay out west?

he passed up on volchenkov but didnt that turn out to be a good pass?

i would have traded carlson, varly and a 1st for pronger but i would not have resigned him to that hideous contract. would that have been worse than forberg for erat?

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05-14-2013, 01:12 PM
  #80
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Good to see you around these parts again, CG. The issue all along has been an apparent predominant goal of managing Ovechkin's ego rather than anything loftier. Ovechkin has allowed that dynamic to exist and it is fair to question his desire to work on his areas of weakness (something that tends to separate the very good from the great). But overall there's has never seemed to be the sort of motivated, detail-oriented developmental approach in place for this team to take it to the next level.

Maybe with more practice time next season Oates can start to bring that into place but I don't have much faith in his assistants or whether that will truly be an imperative next step.

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05-14-2013, 01:25 PM
  #81
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Capitals has a couple of solid frenchiseplayers and all talk is about to drop/trade em all. 2 good defenders and 2 good forwards and the team would be back on track. Well trade nr8 or 19 for what? how can you NOT want a A-grade playmaker and a A+ grade goalscorer on the team?
Calm down , whats coming in from under? Drafts? cant be all bad..

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05-14-2013, 01:25 PM
  #82
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Agreed we need a top 4 D. Trade MJ90/Orlov for some depth on 3rd/4th lines, Peverly/Kelly type.

I don't mind our forward group, just add a little more punch, as Patty shouldn't be a regular.

Martin Erat ($4.500m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Eric Fehr ($1.500m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Troy Brouwer ($3.667m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Mathieu Perreault ($1.050m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.575m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Matt Hendricks ($1.100m)

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05-14-2013, 02:16 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Maryland17 View Post
Agreed we need a top 4 D. Trade MJ90/Orlov for some depth on 3rd/4th lines, Peverly/Kelly type.

I don't mind our forward group, just add a little more punch, as Patty shouldn't be a regular.

Martin Erat ($4.500m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Alex Ovechkin ($9.538m)
Eric Fehr ($1.500m) / Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Troy Brouwer ($3.667m)
Jason Chimera ($1.750m) / Mathieu Perreault ($1.050m) / Joel Ward ($3.000m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.575m) / Jay Beagle ($0.900m) / Matt Hendricks ($1.100m)
I'd go along these lines, but keep Jojo. Trade Ward if they need the cap space. Buy out Schultz.

90 - 19 - 8
10 - 21 - 20
25 - 85 - 16
24 - 26 - 83
miscellaneous forwards

27/trade target - 52
trade target/27 - 74
4/38 - 61/36
4/38/36/61

70
30

If 81 can be that LD, keep him. If not, trade him + other assets (Neuvirth?) for someone who can. Move a D prospect for a forward prospect (Kundratek?).

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05-14-2013, 02:37 PM
  #84
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So Klesla for Johansson was pretty well-received on both ends. Assuming that went through, what would the Caps want for Neuvirth?

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05-14-2013, 02:41 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by IPreferPi View Post
So Klesla for Johansson was pretty well-received on both ends. Assuming that went through, what would the Caps want for Neuvirth?
Neuvirth and a 1st for a 2nd

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05-14-2013, 02:53 PM
  #86
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I think keeping Ribeiro is a must. We finally get a top end 2C and now we don't want to keep him?

I think we HAVE to find a way to keep him. This year he wasnt too good at ES, but in 4 of the 5 previous seasons he has ES point totals of 48, 48, 52, 55. This year was just a down year offensively at ES for him, in a shortened sample size. Even if you generously project him to have only 20 PP points next year, he should be a lock for 65 points at the very least, which we should not pass up IMO.

Erat-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Horton-Ribeiro-Brouwer
Laich-Perreault-Fehr
Chimera-Beagle-Wilson

Alzner-Green
Orlov/FA/Trade-Carlson
Orlov/FA/Trade-Oleksy

Holtby


Trade Johansson for either a 1st in this years draft, a good forward/Defensemen prospect+, or a top 4 LHD.

Trade ward to the highest bidder. He's a solid 3rd liner but there's better ways to spend some of that 3M (Ribeiro or maybe a guy like Horton).

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05-14-2013, 02:53 PM
  #87
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i like this team moving forward. couple new parts one in the top 4 and one in the top 6. Oates is a great coach, and the young core seems to be back. cant take a 7 game series against a team who blocks ****ing everything and say 8 or 19 are bad now. We also have found a great goalie.

i like where this team is heading.

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05-14-2013, 02:54 PM
  #88
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Keeping the team as is will get us nowhere. We lost because of secondary scoring. Ward and Chimera were our best forwards in the playoffs and they should stay. The problem is Ovechkin can do it himself.

When I look at the above posts' lineup I shake my head. You seriously think our defence was the problem? Other than Erskine, who can be replaced internally with Orlov, our D is quite sufficient to make a cup run. Holtby as well. 5-0 is a bad indication of how we played that series. When it hit 2-0 we just gave up.

The main problem was secondary scoring. It's pretty obvious. It really ticks me off to see people thinking we should go into next year without picking up any top 6 goal scorers. Unless the plan is to not really force the issue and just see what happens. Maybe wait for Kuznetsov to come after next season (which is what is happening, we will not have Kuz next year).

Look at this BS, who can score and be a threat with this lineup? I mean seriously? And you want to lose Ribeiro who basically MADE our 2nd leading goal scorer this season in Brouwer:

90 - 19 - 8
10 - 21 - 20
25 - 85 - 16
24 - 26 - 83


We wont do jack with that lineup. Our offence will **** the bed without a 2nd line center like Ribs.

I do agree finding a responsible shutdown partner for Green in order to reunite Carlson/Alzner, and rotate the 3rd pair with Orlov, Hillen, Kundratek, and maybe Schultz is also important. But that wasn't our main problem this year. It was the fact that we relied on OV, who relied on the PP. Shut that down (which seems to be easy in the playoffs) and were basically playing Hunter Hockey with that lineup FILLED with Grinders. Erat will get injured, it's what he does every year. He should still pot 20 goals but I'm still not even sure about that with Laich centering him. That roster is jam-packed with players who would like to have a 20-goal season rather having 1 or 2 players that expect at least 25-30.

I know the reality of the FA market and the trade market. I know it isn't easy to acquire those kinds of top 6 scorers. I understand that in order to get those assets we would have to trade Backstrom and/or MoJo. And at this point I'm fine with it. Playmakers are a dime a dozen and I'm not sure Backstrom is going back to his 30-goal pace any time soon so, IMO, he's replaceable.

The problem is McPhee never takes those chances. The 1st move that needs to made this summer is McPhee needs to pack his **** and leave. If his contract is up this season, I would be infuriated if he was resigned. Whether he's running circles in his own head by this point or he's genuinely an idiot, we need someone with a fresh perspective who can see this team for what it really is; a pretty solid back-end with OV and a bunch of grinders.

I know PIT stocked up at the deadline but look at their scoring depth. Malkin, Crosby, Neal and Iginla are all players that could score 30 goals and nobody would be surprised. Who on our roster, other than OV, can we say the same about. Their 3rd line is a 1st line compared to ours in regards to scoring. Real contenders like CHI and BOS all kill us in scoring depth. That's the main problem.

Keeping the team as is, minus Ribeiro, will further the problem.

Edit: Getting Horton and keeping Ribs is a good start. Although I think we're looking for someone with more firepower than Horton, it doesn't matter if their softer, they just need to be decent 2-way.


Last edited by DanTHEMan71: 05-14-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old
05-14-2013, 02:57 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DanTHEMan71 View Post
We lost because of secondary scoring.
Uhhh...didn't all the scoring come from the secondary scorers?

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05-14-2013, 02:58 PM
  #90
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offseason hopes: Sign Ribs, and go with two bruins Horton and Ference.

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05-14-2013, 02:59 PM
  #91
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Uhhh...didn't all the scoring come from the secondary scorers?
Moreso from tertiary scoring, but yeah, if the big guns were firing, it's over in 4-5.

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05-14-2013, 03:04 PM
  #92
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offseason hopes: Sign Ribs, and go with two bruins Horton and Ference.
I was thinking about Ference but I think we could get someone better than him.

Regardless, getting Horton with Ribeiro and Brouwer as I suggested would be awesome. Gives us some more snarl which is great. Also, he seems like a good possession player, but at the same time he doesn't seem to need the puck on his stick at all times which is important to play with Ribeiro. Horton-Ribs-Brouwer could really be alot like Lucic-Krejci-Horton.

If this happened, the 3rd line of Laich-Perreault-Fehr would be really solid IMO. Good forechecking, defense, and will provide alot of offense from our 3rd line.

Add this to the fact that we could get a very nice return for Mojo, and Kuznetsov could come over next year, and that team has alot of potential.

Edit - Horton will also be only 28 by the time the season starts so he'd fit in nicely age wise. Maybe a 4yr 18mil deal, or 5yr 20m?

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05-14-2013, 03:08 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Moreso from tertiary scoring, but yeah, if the big guns were firing, it's over in 4-5.
That was my thought.

Mojo and Backstrom...just terrible. Mojo had that one nice play to get behind the defense to set up a goal...but besides that...just terrible. I love his speed...but if he's not going to do more scoring in the playoffs? Just go.

And Backstrom was just MIA the whole series. He had to have been injured or something. I'm kinda done with him for some reason. I dont think he'll be moved becasue all things considered, he a really good player...but something was a miss this time around.

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05-14-2013, 03:11 PM
  #94
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Uhhh...didn't all the scoring come from the secondary scorers?
Yes, funnily enough that's very true. Yes, our grinders did more than what was expected out of them. But it was obviously not sustainable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Moreso from tertiary scoring, but yeah, if the big guns were firing, it's over in 4-5.
Exactly. OV is the entire 1st line, and once he was shut down, we didn't have another legitimate 1-2 punch on the 2nd line that could've taken advatange of the 2 other Rangers D pairings. Ribs with Semin could've done the job. But not Ribs with Brouwer.

Other than the 1st line, most of our quality scoring chances came from the point because fortunately we still have some offence on D. If it wasn't for that, this series would've been an absolute cakewalk for Lundqvist.

Our 5 on 5 consisted on puck possession leading to nothing because only OV is a consistent finisher. I can't word this any other way; shut down OV and we're ****ed. In hindsight, I can remember how pissed I was that we let Semin walk after getting Ribs. The reality of that finally set in after this series.

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05-14-2013, 03:13 PM
  #95
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Mojo needs to go train with Tom Wilson this offseason, or at least wherever Tomas Holmstrom trained. If he could learn to protect the puck, he'd be a really good player.

Backstrom needs to go train this offseason. Worst playoff series of his career.

I'm actually pretty optimistic about Oates with a full summer of analysis and a full TC of implementation.

But I'm a lot less than optimistic that McPhee will get him the tools needed to make any sort of improvement, especially on defense.

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05-14-2013, 03:22 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Mojo needs to go train with Tom Wilson this offseason, or at least wherever Tomas Holmstrom trained. If he could learn to protect the puck, he'd be a really good player.

Backstrom needs to go train this offseason. Worst playoff series of his career.

I'm actually pretty optimistic about Oates with a full summer of analysis and a full TC of implementation.

But I'm a lot less than optimistic that McPhee will get him the tools needed to make any sort of improvement, especially on defense.
which, outside of a smattering of moves here and there, has been makfi's achilles heel his entire tenure at the helm.

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05-14-2013, 03:26 PM
  #97
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which, outside of a smattering of moves here and there, has been makfi's achilles heel his entire tenure at the helm.
The worst part is, he doesn't even have to make a bunch of moves. One legitimate top-4 LD would improve the defense by leaps and bounds. There's plenty of good minor league and prospect depth to use as fill-ins and/or trade bait.

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05-14-2013, 03:26 PM
  #98
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Capitals has a couple of solid frenchiseplayers and all talk is about to drop/trade em all. 2 good defenders and 2 good forwards and the team would be back on track. Well trade nr8 or 19 for what? how can you NOT want a A-grade playmaker and a A+ grade goalscorer on the team?
Calm down , whats coming in from under? Drafts? cant be all bad..
the capitals have embarrassed themselves in the playoffs almost every year of ovechkin's career. a couple of times wouldnt kill them. being outclassed and losing wouldnt hurt them. that has really never happened. except for the sweep at the hands of the lower seed lightning who havent made the playoffs since the caps have held leads in every series they have lost. in the majority of those cases they have had two game leads.

its hard on players when that happens once. its happened to ovechkin and backstrom over and over again. if you cant see the effect it has had on their regular season game, you are not looking. if you dont think there is a cummulative effect that weighs these players down come playoffs, they you aren't looking at all.

in the usa we call it a monkey. you have a monkey on your back. you have to play and carry the monkey. by now these monkeys are getting heavy.

you tell me. if you dont trade these players for fresh starts, how do they get over the hump? we certainly know that if 8 and 19 cant get over the hump, the team will never be able to carry them over.

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05-14-2013, 03:29 PM
  #99
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Culture Change Need?

http://thefarmclub.net/2013/05/14/wa...change-needed/

Does this change anything or is it going to be a "keep on rolling" mentality?

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05-14-2013, 03:35 PM
  #100
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Someone threw out a Backstrom for Koivu, Clutterbuck + idea on the trade board. I like that framework quite a bit.

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