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05-15-2013, 06:22 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Put Ovechkin back on the left and you have room for Horton. **** this slavish left-right adherence with a rake. Which one of Kunitz/Dupuis/Neal is a right shot? Which one of Brown/Williams is a left shot? Is Vanek useless playing on his off wing?

Call up Orlov and put him on his off side too. Worst case we win more hockey games.
oates won't do that. its primary to his thinking. but if your plan includes firing mcphee, then if putting ov back on the left creates the option to fire oates. the coaching revolving door is an issue and jerking ov around after getting his 50 goal pace back will have pitfalls.

just sayin

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05-15-2013, 06:27 AM
  #202
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Ranger fan coming in peace: I think your coach needs to go. Oates stood like quiet like a church mouse for the series. I know torts is a clown of a coach, but Oates has to show some emotion. The team should see some passion from their coach. If he had expressed some fire maybe things would have gone different. Wash was the more talented team in this series.
the caps always lose to lesser teams. its the rule not the exception. they lost when scheonfeld and boudreau yelled and screamed at the referees and showed fire. they lost when bryan murray and dale hunter and adam oates stood respectfully behind the bench.

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05-15-2013, 06:44 AM
  #203
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Good posts Art and Dan

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There is no player in the universe with the work-rate to offset those two enough for a high-intensity playoff game.
I think Erat displayed that high energy effective board work to give it a try. Ribs too. Also, its why I wanted Ward tried up top in a panic desperation move. Yes I was even willing to break up Chimera MP Ward after a game in which they did not score. MJ on the rush is his strength. That line did not generate Qchances on the rush all series. Our top line sucked. I would have swapped centers Ribs and Nick. Nick was ripe for a demotion.

Oates did not need to scream and yell, he needed to try to address weaknesses in his scoring lines.

I am really surprised more did not want him to try to improve upon his lines during the series. My attempts to throw ideas were all met with, "we can't risk hurting MJ / Fehr feelings and confidence", and you cannot break up X line. Sending the wrong message. Fehr seemed to peak in game 2 and never scored. He is paid as our 4th line RW. He was like a god here because he started hitting out of no where. People seem to think MJ is overly sensitive and fragile. He is ****ing viking.

Now everyone's feelings are hurt and confidence is shiat. And all the lines are broken up after being embarrassed in a game 7 at home.

I grade Oates a D for this series. He literally did nothing other than deal with the Erat injury, and shorted his bench a few times. He was stubborn in his lines/lineup, and rode a broken Erskine too much. Our 3rd line was our best line all series. He did little to fix the other 3.

For the year, he gets a C+. I grade heavily on the playoffs. Sans the playoffs, he definitely got a B+ for sorting out Ovi Green and the PP.


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05-15-2013, 07:13 AM
  #204
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It's been stated more than once that Oates approaches coaching through the eyes of a player. So he's going to reward effort and chances more than results, because that's what a player would want, and it kind of makes sense, but perhaps not in the playoffs.

I think that is why we didn't see any changes. The Caps were generating opportunities with all of their lines, just not finishing. Then Game 7 happened.

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05-15-2013, 07:30 AM
  #205
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All good points Amin.

But I did not see coordinated attacks among all those chances, I didn't see enough quality chances, and I didn't see... line cohesion for a lack of a better word.

1st line - all pitched in 1 goal but individually. It was ugly most nights. D
2nd line - great possession on the boards early, potted the odd goal later. C+
3rd line - best line all series yet no promotions? Fehr injury fill in for Erat is not a promo. A-
4th line - sucked and had no energy at all - only individual hitting. Punked by NY's 4 big time. D

Staying calm and staying the course can have its rewards, but when it results in a 5-0 blowout at home in game 7, after being shutout in game 6, it likely was not the correct course.

The players look to the coach. They trust him. But game 7 embarrassments test that trust.

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05-15-2013, 07:37 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
3rd line - best line all series yet no promotions? Fehr injury fill in for Erat is not a promo. A-
4th line - sucked and had no energy at all - only individual hitting. Punked by NY's 4 big time. D

Clearly 3rd line was playing often against the 3rd pair. I saw the numbers/charts actually. It is a difference. Maybe that was a plan also.

4th line absence was obvious. With no Wolski, who wouldn't bet for it anyway?

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05-15-2013, 07:39 AM
  #207
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Side note. Many were doubting Chimera's performance in regular season. Bad contract / product of Semin and so on. How things changed in playoffs!

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05-15-2013, 08:26 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Raikkonen View Post
Clearly 3rd line was playing often against the 3rd pair. I saw the numbers/charts actually. It is a difference. Maybe that was a plan also.

4th line absence was obvious. With no Wolski, who wouldn't bet for it anyway?
Did you see any sign of Oates line matching, specifically getting Ovi out against the Rags bottom pair / 4th line at home?

I argued 4th line with Ward for game 1 was not going to work. I wanted him to be a ringer after a loss, since he was out / coming back from injury, and the 4th line never looking better. I wanted the 4th line to pound the Dmen all series but most importantly, in game 1. Soften them up for Ovi to swoop in and score.

Sure, Ward has to be in. I understand. But he is not a 4th line RW. And he did nothing, and that line did nothing. Once in, I wanted Ward put with a scoring center. Met with resistance since Fehr started hitting like a.... 4th liner energy guy. On the wrong line.

If it weren't for that Erat injury, I think Ward would have been our 4RW all series. Poor old Wolski probably got a chill when he saw Erat go down, thinking it was is big chance.

Poor Woitek.

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05-15-2013, 09:49 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Lex444 View Post
Ranger fan coming in peace: I think your coach needs to go. Oates stood like quiet like a church mouse for the series. I know torts is a clown of a coach, but Oates has to show some emotion. The team should see some passion from their coach. If he had expressed some fire maybe things would have gone different. Wash was the more talented team in this series.
One thing I did notice about Tortorella when I was at Game 7, between the 2nd and 3rd periods as soon as the referees came back on the ice, he came out to the bench and engaged them in a lengthy and animated conversation. One can only interpret that he was "working" the referees. When Oates came out the referees did slide over to have a chat with him but it was an abbreiviated one.

With that being said, I think you'll find very few Capitals fans at this juncture that don't believe that Adam Oates has done a heck of a job with this Capitals team. Looking foward to seeing him behind the bench for a full season next year. His training wheels are officially off.

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05-15-2013, 10:08 AM
  #210
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I wish we could get Antropov and Subban. We'd be set.

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05-15-2013, 10:08 AM
  #211
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A Richards/Carter type trade made by a new GM is needed to fix this team, IMO. And that doesn't necessarily mean OV is a part of the trade.

The Country Club that is the Caps needs a new, mentally stronger, foundation.

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05-15-2013, 10:09 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Did you see any sign of Oates line matching, specifically getting Ovi out against the Rags bottom pair / 4th line at home?

I argued 4th line with Ward for game 1 was not going to work. I wanted him to be a ringer after a loss, since he was out / coming back from injury, and the 4th line never looking better. I wanted the 4th line to pound the Dmen all series but most importantly, in game 1. Soften them up for Ovi to swoop in and score.

Sure, Ward has to be in. I understand. But he is not a 4th line RW. And he did nothing, and that line did nothing. Once in, I wanted Ward put with a scoring center. Met with resistance since Fehr started hitting like a.... 4th liner energy guy. On the wrong line.

If it weren't for that Erat injury, I think Ward would have been our 4RW all series. Poor old Wolski probably got a chill when he saw Erat go down, thinking it was is big chance.

Poor Woitek.
Right, Fehr's hitting is why he shouldn't have been demoted. That's why everyone thought he was playing well. His hitting.

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05-15-2013, 10:21 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
Right, Fehr's hitting is why he shouldn't have been demoted. That's why everyone thought he was playing well. His hitting.
Hitting... is not his game. And sure enough, it disappeared.

Notice how that 3rd line did much better when he was off it?

Fehr did not score despite all the confidence he had. He actually played like a 4th liner most of the series. All hail Eric Fehr can stop any time now.

Were you the one that was worried about his confidence, when I suggested we needed to move Ward up in the lineup? Its like you have no idea what he has gone through in his career. The dude can handle anything the coach throws at him.

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05-15-2013, 10:22 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by WetHog View Post
A Richards/Carter type trade made by a new GM is needed to fix this team, IMO. And that doesn't necessarily mean OV is a part of the trade.

The Country Club that is the Caps needs a new, mentally stronger, foundation.
I agree. Ovi could be a key part in the fixing process once the trade(s) or done. But if nothing else we need to change the culture. The core have had plenty of chances and it always ends the same. That begins to create a mentality of failure. We need to mixed things up.

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05-15-2013, 10:26 AM
  #215
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Well checking in on Capgeek, two years from now 10 Caps on the current roster will be UFAs. Adding up the last year of their salaries, we're talking $22,262,500, more than a third of next year's cap. Some of the players that would become UFAs will be Green, Ward, Erat, Fehr, Erskine and Neuvirth (Hillen/Beagle/Olesky/AV) and some of the other players that might just hit the UFA market at the same time are Patrick Kane, Jonathan Toews and Bobby Ryan.

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05-15-2013, 10:27 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Hitting... is not his game. And sure enough, it disappeared.

Notice how that 3rd line did much better when he was off it?

Fehr did not score despite all the confidence he had. He actually played like a 4th liner most of the series. All hail Eric Fehr can stop any time now.
The 2nd line was also a lot better with him on it. You seem to have missed my sarcasm. Hitting was never why anyone thought he was playing well. The 3rd line wasn't even better as much as it was just more productive.

Quote:
Were you the one that was worried about his confidence, when I suggested we needed to move Ward up in the lineup? Its like you have no idea what he has gone through in his career. The dude can handle anything the coach throws at him.
I wasn't "worried" about his confidence. I said it made no sense to demote a player who had been one of the best on the team in favor of one who had done nothing so far in the series. I said it sent the wrong message, but that was a minor aspect of my reasoning. It would have set Fehr up for failure. You say he played like a fourth liner...I wonder how much he would have scored dragging around Beagle and Hendricks.

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05-15-2013, 10:56 AM
  #217
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After that series it's natural that we're all playing the blame game to some degree, but I would have a hard time blaming the likes of Eric Fehr, Perreault, Chimera and Ward and their performance. Now the two Swedes would be at the top of my list and why they are not at the center of the wrath of fans is beyond me.

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05-15-2013, 11:24 AM
  #218
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After that series it's natural that we're all playing the blame game to some degree, but I would have a hard time blaming the likes of Eric Fehr, Perreault, Chimera and Ward and their performance. Now the two Swedes would be at the top of my list and why they are not at the center of the wrath of fans is beyond me.

backstrom was so uncharacteristically ineffective only explanation is he was hurt in some form.

hard to really be mad at a guy, or pin blame, when they were trying to play thru an injury.

if it comes out he wasnt hurt, that's another discussion.

the other one? well.....

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05-15-2013, 11:31 AM
  #219
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Who do they replace Green with though? Too often, he's the only way they breakout of the zone.

Trading him just opens one major hole to fill another. Instead of being short one top-4 defenseman, the team will be short two.

I think they need to trade from the wings and prospect pool to strengthen the defense and/or center spots.
Absolutely it creates a hole. So does a $6+ mil a year defender who's averaged 35 missed games a year over the past 3 (averaged this year out over an 82 game season).

Trading Green absolutely creates a monster hole. The other option (if you want the core changed) is Backstrom. Is his value as high right now? Either one is hard to replace. I expect McPhee to throw the "it's too hard" card and rotate out more bottom 6 forwards and 5-7 Ds and hope he gets lucky as always.

The wings aren't returning you anything of exceptional value like a Green and Backstrom will. I don't know...I think the core of this team needs to be altered further. Trading either one would be bittersweet though for sure. I'd much rather keep them for sure...

And no, in my head, trading Green would return a top 4 defender + (if not a top pair guy), so there wouldn't be two holes in the top 4.

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05-15-2013, 11:32 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
backstrom was so uncharacteristically ineffective only explanation is he was hurt in some form.

hard to really be mad at a guy, or pin blame, when they were trying to play thru an injury.

if it comes out he wasnt hurt, that's another discussion.

the other one? well.....
About two years ago, Alex started underperforming so badly that a lot of people assumed he was hurt...because it had to be something right?

I'm not making any assumptions.

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05-15-2013, 11:36 AM
  #221
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Heres how id fix it,
Play Ovechken, Backstrom and Fehr on the number one line. Both Backstrom and Ovechken played their best hockey when Victor Kozlov played the wing. They need somebody who can cycle and protect the puck, who isn't afraid to go to the front of the net and pay the price. Johanssen is not a winger, a marshmellow who gets overwhelmed in one one on one board play. What he can be is an extremely effective 2 way center wh uses his feet to play keep away while his 2 wingers Laich and Brower go to the net. Which brings us to Rebeiro save the money let him walk all he did was teach Ovi and company to complain about the officiating. Erat with Latta and Ward a line with a bit of everything. Chimera with beagle and Wilson our energy line that would be miserable to play against. Perreault in case Johanssen cant get the job done or Backstrom goes down. Volpatti same reason for bottom six. See how this shakes out before Kuznetzov(if)comes over after the Olympics.
Defence Keep ALzner Carlson Green add Orlov. Erskine, well, guys a disaster love his heart and effort but just doesnt have the foot speed. The Rangers targetted him specifically he's 7th or 8th defenceman at best and thats being charitable. Shultz see Erskine except he doesnt have the heart or effort(buy out), Poti see ya. Oleksy, gamer 6 th dman,Hillen fill in 6 th or 7th dman not terrible because at least he can skate. We need a 4-5 defenceman preferably a left handed shot, with size who can play an up tempo game.
Goaltending not sold on Holtby guy gets beat to the glove side, short side way to often. For all the good he does with his ability to move the puck he will commit turnovers by trying to do too much. Holtby's record vs Lundquist 6-8 Neuvirth record vs Lundquist 4-1
just saying. Neuvirth a winner, in junior,in the AHL should give him a chance to run with it next year. The Capitals well its like the Islanders many moons ago when they had to decide between Billy Smith and Chico Resch after numerous playoff set backs they made the right choice.
Coaching Oates did a good job in the shortened season, dont like his devotion that players shouldnt play they're off wing though. If its all about speed and quickly handling the puck then Erskine or Shultz should never have seen the ice

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05-15-2013, 11:38 AM
  #222
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About two years ago, Alex started underperforming so badly that a lot of people assumed he was hurt...because it had to be something right?

I'm not making any assumptions.
Fans by their nature want to let their favorite players off the hook, even if it means making up excuses. I'm sure Backstrom was nicked up like every player in the NHL postseason is right now. Not an excuse.

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05-15-2013, 11:40 AM
  #223
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Heres how id fix it,
Play Ovechken, Backstrom and Fehr on the number one line. Both Backstrom and Ovechken played their best hockey when Victor Kozlov played the wing. They need somebody who can cycle and protect the puck, who isn't afraid to go to the front of the net and pay the price. Johanssen is not a winger, a marshmellow who gets overwhelmed in one one on one board play. What he can be is an extremely effective 2 way center wh uses his feet to play keep away while his 2 wingers Laich and Brower go to the net. Which brings us to Rebeiro save the money let him walk all he did was teach Ovi and company to complain about the officiating. Erat with Latta and Ward a line with a bit of everything. Chimera with beagle and Wilson our energy line that would be miserable to play against. Perreault in case Johanssen cant get the job done or Backstrom goes down. Volpatti same reason for bottom six. See how this shakes out before Kuznetzov(if)comes over after the Olympics.
Defence Keep ALzner Carlson Green add Orlov. Erskine, well, guys a disaster love his heart and effort but just doesnt have the foot speed. The Rangers targetted him specifically he's 7th or 8th defenceman at best and thats being charitable. Shultz see Erskine except he doesnt have the heart or effort(buy out), Poti see ya. Oleksy, gamer 6 th dman,Hillen fill in 6 th or 7th dman not terrible because at least he can skate. We need a 4-5 defenceman preferably a left handed shot, with size who can play an up tempo game.
Goaltending not sold on Holtby guy gets beat to the glove side, short side way to often. For all the good he does with his ability to move the puck he will commit turnovers by trying to do too much. Holtby's record vs Lundquist 6-8 Neuvirth record vs Lundquist 4-1
just saying. Neuvirth a winner, in junior,in the AHL should give him a chance to run with it next year. The Capitals well its like the Islanders many moons ago when they had to decide between Billy Smith and Chico Resch after numerous playoff set backs they made the right choice.
Coaching Oates did a good job in the shortened season, dont like his devotion that players shouldnt play they're off wing though. If its all about speed and quickly handling the puck then Erskine or Shultz should never have seen the ice
One question, how is marshmallow soft Mojo supposed to excel as a two-way C, when he's marshmallow soft? If he can't hold a puck after a hit, how's he supposed to play effective D as a 3rd C?

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05-15-2013, 11:45 AM
  #224
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Any shots "at" Fehr here are actually directed at those that said Ward should not be promoted because of Fehr's hitting/effort level. Fehr is Fehr and as our lowest paid RW, is not expected to score much and to me, is not above the odd scratch.

It seems everyone wanted Fehr promoted before demoted except me. He was hitting with all his might.... but in Joel Ward's spot.

Well much to the fans delight, Fehr got moved up to 2 yet did not score. In fact, it appeared to me to do better on 3 but whatever. The bigger problem was on our top line.

Nothing against Fehr at all, and I was very happy with his effort level.

Its just that Oates rolled with 4 scoring RWs and Fehr was in the way of putting Ward in a place to you know, do his thing. If Ward is stuck on 4, those in front of him have to be scoring. You cant wait 4 loses to make a move.

Speaking of 4th liners not being above a scratch. I wanted to sit beagle and was met with resistance for his RH faceoffs. He finished a team worst -5.


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05-15-2013, 11:51 AM
  #225
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One question, how is marshmallow soft Mojo supposed to excel as a two-way C, when he's marshmallow soft? If he can't hold a puck after a hit, how's he supposed to play effective D as a 3rd C?
Johansson has great defensive instincts. He was awesome on the pk and at even strength his rookie year.

Which makes me hate him even more. Because the guy is lazy. Rather than try to grow as an athlete and turn that talent into on ice performance, he's done nothing. He'd rather do spin moves, and drop passes and whip low percentage passes to Ryan McDonagh.

He's gone from talented defensive center to soft perimeter winger through pure lack of effort.

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