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Trade Proposal Det/Ott.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:35 AM
  #1
DanStewartFC
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Trade Proposal Det/Ott.

What would it take to get Jason Spezza since Detroit needs a center and Ottawa has so many centermen. I know Detroit would have to overpay a lot for him, but how about the below deal?

To Detroit: C Jason Spezza, D Brian Pothier.

To Ottawa: D Jiri Fischer, C Jiri Hudler, 1st rounder 04, 1st rounder 05, C Tomas Kopecky, LW Boyd Devereaux (or C Jason Williams), 2 million.

OR

To Detroit: C Jason Spezza, D Brian Pothier, RW Martin Havlat.

To Ottawa: D Jiri Fischer, C Pavel Datsyuk, 1st rounder 04, 1st rounder 05, C Tomas Kopecky.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:43 AM
  #2
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It would take more than Detroit would be willing to offer.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:44 AM
  #3
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The Sens are not interested in exchanging their quality for others quantity. The Sens already have waiver issues, so adding extra bodies doesn't do them a lot of good.

The Sens are more likely to pitch a Todd White and Petr Schastlivy for Brendan Shanahan type of deal.

I know the Wings would probably turn that down, but it's for the same reason the Sens would - both teams want to win the Cup this year.

Bad trading partners.

One thought - Pothier and Van Allen for Draper?

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:05 AM
  #4
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in your second proposal how does adding datsuyk suddenly make the deal good enough to get havlt? break it down in to three parts:

Datsuyk for Havlat: NO
Fischer for Pothier: Yes
The picks and Kopecky for Spezza: NO

This trade will not happen both Havlat and Spezza are too good and too young.

the first proposal is a no too.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:07 AM
  #5
Other Dave
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The Red Wings simply don't have the assets to get Spezza out of Ottawa. Lindros, the last big rookie center to be traded, went for a stud 1st rounder in his draft year, a first and second round pick from the year before, a first round pick from the two subsequent years, a starting goaltender, a puck moving defencemen, and a roleplayer. And cash.

Even if we assume that Spets is worth only half that (2 1st rounders, 2 roster players), Detroit can't put together a package attractive enough, since they don't have the young draft picks avalable. And even if they did, Ottawa wouldn't have room for the roster guys.

Also keep in mind that most of Spezza's salary has already been paid to him, so Ottawa would be doubly foolish to trade him.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:24 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup4Wings
To Detroit: C Jason Spezza, D Brian Pothier, RW Martin Havlat.

To Ottawa: D Jiri Fischer, C Pavel Datsyuk, 1st rounder 04, 1st rounder 05, C Tomas Kopecky.

You'd have to include some lube for Muckler's behind if you want to make that trade.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:29 AM
  #7
officeglen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup4Wings
What would it take to get Jason Spezza since Detroit needs a center and Ottawa has so many centermen. I know Detroit would have to overpay a lot for him, but how about the below deal?

To Detroit: C Jason Spezza, D Brian Pothier.

To Ottawa: D Jiri Fischer, C Jiri Hudler, 1st rounder 04, 1st rounder 05, C Tomas Kopecky, LW Boyd Devereaux (or C Jason Williams), 2 million.

OR

To Detroit: C Jason Spezza, D Brian Pothier, RW Martin Havlat.

To Ottawa: D Jiri Fischer, C Pavel Datsyuk, 1st rounder 04, 1st rounder 05, C Tomas Kopecky.


Ottawa: Needs #1/2 LW - doesn't need #2/3, #3,#4,#5 LW, any C (we have lots, all sorts of sizes and shapes, so sorry Comrie, Hudler, Kopecky, Jason Williams), any RWs (Havlat will sign at some point), any D, any G, any draft picks,and cannot accept more players than they give up. Unlikely to give any D, any RWs, and LWs, will give C, prospects and draft picks. Generally content with team, and will play excess C at LW at this point.

"Ottawa has so many centermen" - so why do you propose even more coming back? In both proposals we trade one C and get two C back?

If you want a future #1 C, Spezza, at least try to address the primary need area of the Sens, a #1 LW. And if you, or anybody else, doesn't think Spezza will be a #1 C, then don't propose anything.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:32 AM
  #8
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It would probably take something like Zetterberg + Fischer + picks with maybe a few other prospects thrown in (just for Spezza, I don't know what this guy was thinking including Havlat).

It's a deal that wouldn't make sense for either team: Detroit would be gutting their future depth for one player who isn't going to be a big factor in the Cup run, while Ottawa has enough depth already and would be giving up a future top 10 scorer.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:57 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkorama
in your second proposal how does adding datsuyk suddenly make the deal good enough to get havlt? break it down in to three parts:

Datsuyk for Havlat: NO
Fischer for Pothier: Yes
The picks and Kopecky for Spezza: NO

This trade will not happen both Havlat and Spezza are too good and too young.

the first proposal is a no too.
Datsyuk and Havlat are pretty much equivilant in terms of talent and potential. Look at the numbers

Datsyuk
GP G A P +/-
70 11 24 35 4 .50 pts/gm
64 12 39 51 20 .797 pts/gm

Havlat
73 19 23 42 8 .575 pts/gm
72 22 28 50 -7 .694 pts/gm
67 24 35 59 20 .881 pts/gm

Based on the numbers Datsyuk is ahead of Havlat in terms of progress. So many people trash Datsyuk and underestimate his talent. Havlat is good but Datsyuk is on the same level my friend.

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:02 AM
  #10
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Datsyuk: Born Jul 20, 1978, Height: 5'11".
Havlat: Born Apr 19, 1981. Height: 6'1".

Boy, you're right. They're *exactly* the same.

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:26 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
It would probably take something like Zetterberg + Fischer + picks with maybe a few other prospects thrown in (just for Spezza, I don't know what this guy was thinking including Havlat).

It's a deal that wouldn't make sense for either team: Detroit would be gutting their future depth for one player who isn't going to be a big factor in the Cup run, while Ottawa has enough depth already and would be giving up a future top 10 scorer.
I like the idea of Shanahan+ Fischer for Spezza better
as Shanny gives more leadership+experience and hes a lock at #1 Lw position although hes older and has peaked he would fit in better I think. Ottawa loses a lot here as they sacrifice one of the best looking players in the future but Shanahan and Fischer have an immediate and profound impact in the here and now . Detroit gets a frachise center but really would somewhat cease to be a cup contender and go into more of a rebuilding phase I am not sure if this is the right choice with Yzerman,Hasek,Lidstrom , and Hull on the verge of knocking on retirements door but it sure would make the future look bright.

p.s. could Ottawa afford Shanny? and is cup now>spezza?

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:27 AM
  #12
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Datsyuk, a playmaker who is playing with Brett Hull, the single BEST player in perhaps the history of the NHL to play with IF you are a playmaking center. Datsyuk's assist totals will be inflated playing with Hull, as he will put in 10-20 goals that 99% of the rest of the league will not be able to do.

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:47 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Ottawa loses a lot here as they sacrifice one of the best looking players in the future..
I'm not too sure about that. Some say that Spezza's ears look "a bit funny" and prefer the more masculine look of Shanahan.

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Old
09-24-2003, 08:27 AM
  #14
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Detroit cant afford to trade two of their young good players plus picks and prospects for one star young player. Detroit does not have the depth in the organinzation to make a trade like this. Even if it means getting a number one center for many years to come. Because that great player wont have much talent around him.
The Wings are in a sticky situation right now. They are trying to win the cup, and at the same time re-tool the roster when the older players leave and have left.

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Old
09-24-2003, 08:32 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup4Wings
What would it take to get Jason Spezza since Detroit needs a center and Ottawa has so many centermen. I know Detroit would have to overpay a lot for him, but how about the below deal?

To Detroit: C Jason Spezza, D Brian Pothier.

To Ottawa: D Jiri Fischer, C Jiri Hudler, 1st rounder 04, 1st rounder 05, C Tomas Kopecky, LW Boyd Devereaux (or C Jason Williams), 2 million.

OR

To Detroit: C Jason Spezza, D Brian Pothier, RW Martin Havlat.

To Ottawa: D Jiri Fischer, C Pavel Datsyuk, 1st rounder 04, 1st rounder 05, C Tomas Kopecky.

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Old
09-24-2003, 09:20 AM
  #16
abalog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Other Dave
Datsyuk: Born Jul 20, 1978, Height: 5'11".
Havlat: Born Apr 19, 1981. Height: 6'1".

Boy, you're right. They're *exactly* the same.

Other Dave
This is your comeback? You have to come up with something better than that.

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Old
09-24-2003, 09:26 AM
  #17
abalog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
Datsyuk, a playmaker who is playing with Brett Hull, the single BEST player in perhaps the history of the NHL to play with IF you are a playmaking center. Datsyuk's assist totals will be inflated playing with Hull, as he will put in 10-20 goals that 99% of the rest of the league will not be able to do.
Have you ever watched Datsyuk play?
You still have to get him the puck. Datsyuk makes passes that 90% of the league would not be able to do.
Yes playing with Hull helps but I am sure Havlat is not playing with no talent ass clowns himself.

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Old
09-24-2003, 11:03 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abalog
This is your comeback? You have to come up with something better than that.
Seeing as you can't understand, I'll explain it to you very simply:

Arnason is about 3 years older than Nash and they had similar seasons. NOBODY will tell you that Nash and Arnason have shown similar progress. The fact that Datsyuk is 3 years older gives him a HUGE developement edge over Havlat. A good comparison for Datsyuk is Scott Gomez and I don't think anyone would really compare Gomez to Havlat in terms of talent.

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Old
09-24-2003, 02:52 PM
  #19
Egil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abalog
Have you ever watched Datsyuk play?
You still have to get him the puck. Datsyuk makes passes that 90% of the league would not be able to do.
Yes playing with Hull helps but I am sure Havlat is not playing with no talent ass clowns himself.
I'm not saying Datsyuk sucks, simply that playing with Brett Hull as a playmaker inflates your stats. Nothing wrong with it, but tis the case.

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:14 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
I'm not saying Datsyuk sucks, simply that playing with Brett Hull as a playmaker inflates your stats. Nothing wrong with it, but tis the case.
actually datsyuk and zetterberg are more the playmakers than hull, hull just makes sure he's open when the puck comes his way,

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:34 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
actually datsyuk and zetterberg are more the playmakers than hull, hull just makes sure he's open when the puck comes his way,
That's what he was implying, but I think the sentence is just worded incorrectly. If not then Egil has never watched a hockey game in his life, which I don't think is the case

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:17 PM
  #22
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ah my bad

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:31 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e)
The Sens are not interested in exchanging their quality for others quantity. The Sens already have waiver issues, so adding extra bodies doesn't do them a lot of good.

The Sens are more likely to pitch a Todd White and Petr Schastlivy for Brendan Shanahan type of deal.

I know the Wings would probably turn that down, but it's for the same reason the Sens would - both teams want to win the Cup this year.

Bad trading partners.

One thought - Pothier and Van Allen for Draper?
Shanahan is 34, so I bet the Wings would take it....they need more young blood.

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:04 PM
  #24
abalog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Seeing as you can't understand, I'll explain it to you very simply:

Arnason is about 3 years older than Nash and they had similar seasons. NOBODY will tell you that Nash and Arnason have shown similar progress. The fact that Datsyuk is 3 years older gives him a HUGE developement edge over Havlat. A good comparison for Datsyuk is Scott Gomez and I don't think anyone would really compare Gomez to Havlat in terms of talent.
Plan and simple,
we are comparing Havlat and Datsyuk.
Their numbers are about the same. If you look at my original post the only point I was trying to make was that Datsyuk and Havlat are on the same level. Period. End of Story.

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:40 PM
  #25
officeglen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abalog
Plan and simple,
we are comparing Havlat and Datsyuk.
Their numbers are about the same. If you look at my original post the only point I was trying to make was that Datsyuk and Havlat are on the same level. Period. End of Story.
The point was their ages and size aren't the same. Period. End of thread.

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