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06-15-2013, 02:51 PM
  #1
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What would you do with the Jets defense?

Lots of talk about Hainsey and Byfuglien has me thinking about the Jets defense in general.

We criticize Enstrom: Nope, it's not Enstrom, he's pocket Lidstrom
We criticize Byfuglien: Nope, he produces a stunning rate of offense and brings a size and skillset that is very hard to find
We criticize Hainsey: Nope, he's very solid, plays tough minutes and gets the job done.
We criticize Bogos... haha who am I kidding.

Bottom line is, even with some pretty nice pieces on defense, this Jet team can't seem to keep the puck out of our net when it matters. I am not going to get into the whole Pavelec debate, I've made my point pretty clear on him. However, he is the guy we have long-term and if we want to win more games we need to protect our net better.

I think we need a change back there. I truly believe that Postma and Redmond will continue to make positive steps forward next year. I do not think that Trouba will be on the Jets, but that might be the worst bet I could make as he could go either way.

What I would do if I was managing the Jets D personnel is:

A> Trade Stuart: Yes, the guy is a warrior, well liked. Battles and gives his all. Problem is, he just isn't very good. He'd be better suited as a 7th guy on a deep team that can be a cheerleader that draws in occasionally and plays a few gritty minutes. We need more from our guys, and when Stu is forced to play in the top 4? Yikes. I suggest that Postma and Redmond already play a better game then Stuart and their shortcomings are due to youth and inexperience, while Stuarts are due to skill. The first 2 will get better, Stuart will not.

B> Resign Hainsey: If the price is right. I like Ron. I think he does a reasonable job. I like that he can play more minutes if needed. I don't think he is a critical piece and if he is looking for big money I wish him the best of luck elsewhere.

C> Trade Byfuglien: This will most likely be my most controversial statement. I know what he brings to the table. I know how unbelievably dynamic he can be. I understand he can single-handedly change a game. Problem is, he can do that for the opposition, too. I do not like the fact that this guy just seems to take parts of the season off. I don't know if it's due to conditioning, injury, or just not giving a **** but there is nothing more maddening than say, getting worked by a division rival at home and your biggest, most star-powered player just seems like he wants to go home and have a nap. I believe that Byfuglien has a lot of value around the NHL (because if you could get him to play hard every game he would be the best defenseman in the league). I think we could parlay that value into a more well rounded consistent defenseman, or a scoring top 6 winger.

D> Keep Enstrom: You have to figure that this guys bad luck is going to change. You don't just magically go from being a guy who is one of the best in the league and consistently healthy, to being a bandaid who struggles with the puck. Yes, even the Enstrom we've seen in Winnipeg has been pretty damn good, but he hasn't been what he was. I think he can still get there, and I think he just needs to get healthy and get his confidence back. We need to be patient and give him that chance, because it's not like he is trying to prove some potential, he is just trying to return to form.

E> Sign Clitsome: Kind of like Hainsey, if the price is right sign the guy. He is a bit of an enigma. When he is playing confidently and moving his feet, he really contributes to the team. He has shown a real offensive knack and good instincts. He tends to struggle in his own end at times but we need to remember that in NHL games, he is still relatively inexperienced. He's played 180 games over 4 seasons. Not a rookie but defensemen often take longer to figure it out. The good news about Clitty is that being better in your zone is something you can learn. Offensive instinct is not. I'd love to have him stick around on the bottom pair, which leads me to:

F> Keep plugging in Postma and Redmond: I think they are both developing nicely. It will be interesting to see how Redmond bounces back from his injury, though from the looks of it this guy will be back to 100% at TC. Postma I thought got better as the season went on and he is starting to use his speed and hands to get the puck out of trouble in our zone which is good news. Those are exactly the tools he needs to use to exit our end.

I didn't mention Bogosian because IMHO he's the only guy in our D who just doesn't need to be debated. You sign him, as long as you can. His wrist should be much better this year with a good long off season. You know he is going to work out, strengthen and stay very fit. He is a gem on and off the ice, and has a lot of time to get better and better. He will be an elite defenseman in this league for years to come.

Finally, if we do jettison Stuart, and if Hainsey walks we will need to try and find a reliable guy who can play top 4 minutes. That will be no small task. I'd love to get a Tallinder or Visnovsky.

Bottom line is, I hope our D looks at least somewhat different than last year. This core of guys have been together for a few years now and haven't found a way to get it done, yet.

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06-15-2013, 03:20 PM
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What I do?

Similar to you but slightly different:

*I'm good with trading Stuart, intangibles only do so much and rarely outweigh lack of skill, you probably won't get much but maybe a latter pick or two

*I'd probably only sign one of Clitsome and Hainsey (prefer to spend more $ towards a #2RW and a 1B goalie which will cost a penny or two) and likely Clitsome due to likely being cheaper and probably not looking for as much term (yes I like Hainsey but can't always get what you want)

*I'd try to keep Kulda here with a 1way deal, a d-core 4-8 of Clitsome, Postma, Redmond, Kulda and Trouba works for me

*I'd keep Buff for short term. I like Hainsey but I think he's gone from us. I would not want to lose both of these players in one period as I think the dropoff would be too severe

*I'd trade Buff in long term, either on trade deadline in 2013-14 season, or 2014-15 season, or 2014 summer off season. It's unlikely we'll get a pure hockey trade so I'd like to delay a bit for a bit more development in our young D-men. We then trade Buff for some young roster pieces and/or high-end prospects to a contender



I know you don't want to get into Pav's although I think he's the #1 reason for the issues, but even with Pav's the current d-core has worked when intact... the problem is we haven't seen it much as such.

Looking at every minute in both seasons where Jets 2.0 have had their top4, ie:
Enstrom-Byfuglien
Hainsey-Bogosian
the Jets have owned 54% of possession and 52% of goals. That equals wins even with the current goaltending. However, losing over 25% of each top4 player in man games each season sucks.

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06-15-2013, 03:23 PM
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I agree with almost everything, tbh. The only piece I'm not sure about is Byfuglien. If we re-sign Hainsey, deal him for a top 6 forward and I'm a happy guy. If Hainsey walks, we'd better get some defensive talent for Buff, because otherwise I'm a bit nervous. Postma, Redmond, and Trouba look promising, but it's always a risk.

Besides, I don't think there's much harm in waiting on Buff a bit. Maybe we deal Stuart, and Hainsey walks, and we see what kind of talent the rookies have before making a decision on Buff. That's what I'd do, anyway.

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06-15-2013, 03:29 PM
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I'm not totally against keeping Buff. Part of me still hopes that he finally understands that he could be the best defenseman in the NHL and actually puts in the time and effort to be that guy, but we've seen examples over and over and over again in pro sports of exceptional talents not having the drive to realize their full potential.

I'm afraid at his age, with his history, Byfuglien will never put it totally together. If we can trade him before everyone else figures that out we should.

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06-15-2013, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
I'm not totally against keeping Buff. Part of me still hopes that he finally understands that he could be the best defenseman in the NHL and actually puts in the time and effort to be that guy, but we've seen examples over and over and over again in pro sports of exceptional talents not having the drive to realize their full potential.

I'm afraid at his age, with his history, Byfuglien will never put it totally together. If we can trade him before everyone else figures that out we should.
I think all GMs and scouts would have a pretty good idea of this.
The risk is a deterrent for all but the fact that he's already top 3 O-dman in the league and has potential to be a 2way guy *if* he brought it together is the incentives to the trade.

I don't think that is going to diminish over one more season (or 2).
However, there is the risk of health. That is the one legitimate risk I think with keeping him for anywhere between half a season to 1.5.


Last edited by garret9: 06-15-2013 at 04:28 PM. Reason: grammar
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06-15-2013, 04:37 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
Lots of talk about Hainsey and Byfuglien has me thinking about the Jets defense in general.

We criticize Enstrom: Nope, it's not Enstrom, he's pocket Lidstrom
We criticize Byfuglien: Nope, he produces a stunning rate of offense and brings a size and skillset that is very hard to find
We criticize Hainsey: Nope, he's very solid, plays tough minutes and gets the job done.
We criticize Bogos... haha who am I kidding.

Bottom line is, even with some pretty nice pieces on defense, this Jet team can't seem to keep the puck out of our net when it matters. I am not going to get into the whole Pavelec debate, I've made my point pretty clear on him. However, he is the guy we have long-term and if we want to win more games we need to protect our net better.

I think we need a change back there. I truly believe that Postma and Redmond will continue to make positive steps forward next year. I do not think that Trouba will be on the Jets, but that might be the worst bet I could make as he could go either way.

What I would do if I was managing the Jets D personnel is:

A> Trade Stuart: Yes, the guy is a warrior, well liked. Battles and gives his all. Problem is, he just isn't very good. He'd be better suited as a 7th guy on a deep team that can be a cheerleader that draws in occasionally and plays a few gritty minutes. We need more from our guys, and when Stu is forced to play in the top 4? Yikes. I suggest that Postma and Redmond already play a better game then Stuart and their shortcomings are due to youth and inexperience, while Stuarts are due to skill. The first 2 will get better, Stuart will not.

B> Resign Hainsey: If the price is right. I like Ron. I think he does a reasonable job. I like that he can play more minutes if needed. I don't think he is a critical piece and if he is looking for big money I wish him the best of luck elsewhere.

C> Trade Byfuglien: This will most likely be my most controversial statement. I know what he brings to the table. I know how unbelievably dynamic he can be. I understand he can single-handedly change a game. Problem is, he can do that for the opposition, too. I do not like the fact that this guy just seems to take parts of the season off. I don't know if it's due to conditioning, injury, or just not giving a **** but there is nothing more maddening than say, getting worked by a division rival at home and your biggest, most star-powered player just seems like he wants to go home and have a nap. I believe that Byfuglien has a lot of value around the NHL (because if you could get him to play hard every game he would be the best defenseman in the league). I think we could parlay that value into a more well rounded consistent defenseman, or a scoring top 6 winger.

D> Keep Enstrom: You have to figure that this guys bad luck is going to change. You don't just magically go from being a guy who is one of the best in the league and consistently healthy, to being a bandaid who struggles with the puck. Yes, even the Enstrom we've seen in Winnipeg has been pretty damn good, but he hasn't been what he was. I think he can still get there, and I think he just needs to get healthy and get his confidence back. We need to be patient and give him that chance, because it's not like he is trying to prove some potential, he is just trying to return to form.

E> Sign Clitsome: Kind of like Hainsey, if the price is right sign the guy. He is a bit of an enigma. When he is playing confidently and moving his feet, he really contributes to the team. He has shown a real offensive knack and good instincts. He tends to struggle in his own end at times but we need to remember that in NHL games, he is still relatively inexperienced. He's played 180 games over 4 seasons. Not a rookie but defensemen often take longer to figure it out. The good news about Clitty is that being better in your zone is something you can learn. Offensive instinct is not. I'd love to have him stick around on the bottom pair, which leads me to:

F> Keep plugging in Postma and Redmond: I think they are both developing nicely. It will be interesting to see how Redmond bounces back from his injury, though from the looks of it this guy will be back to 100% at TC. Postma I thought got better as the season went on and he is starting to use his speed and hands to get the puck out of trouble in our zone which is good news. Those are exactly the tools he needs to use to exit our end.

I didn't mention Bogosian because IMHO he's the only guy in our D who just doesn't need to be debated. You sign him, as long as you can. His wrist should be much better this year with a good long off season. You know he is going to work out, strengthen and stay very fit. He is a gem on and off the ice, and has a lot of time to get better and better. He will be an elite defenseman in this league for years to come.

Finally, if we do jettison Stuart, and if Hainsey walks we will need to try and find a reliable guy who can play top 4 minutes. That will be no small task. I'd love to get a Tallinder or Visnovsky.

Bottom line is, I hope our D looks at least somewhat different than last year. This core of guys have been together for a few years now and haven't found a way to get it done, yet.

Thanks for the post, it really is the issue that needs addressing more so than any other if the Jets are going to go forward successfully. I have often been puzzled as to why the talent the jets put on the ice is radically different from the jets abysmal goals against.

You did a very nice job analyzing each Jets defenceman although somehow its the group as a whole that does not quite make sense moreso than their individual talent levels. One example of this is the right handed shots versus the left handed shots. In an ideal world, we would pick up a strong left handed shot via the free agent market, sit back and just watch them grow. This is not a reality at this time. I don't think many people believe resigning Hainsey is going to work. A larger change will be necessary.

Personally, I think breaking up the Byfuglien-Enstrom pairing is where to start. The pairing itself is very weak defensively. Either adding someone to balance these pairings out or trading one may do the trick. Enstrom is supremely talented but appears very fragile. It's unfortunate Byfuglien doesn't play consistently more physical to help protect him a little bit more. Every time Enstrom goes into the corner I wince because it looks like his shoulders are going to explode. My dream trade would be Enstrom for Jared Cowan, but unlikely to happen.

Another trade scenario is Buff for the Schenn brothers, because Schenn is a defenceman you could build a defence first shutdown pairing around. Another thing I love about having young d-men is because of Charlie Huddy. He did such a nice job working with Bogo after his Atlanta train wreck experience that it bodes very well for guys like Trouba.

I just yearn for a Chara-Siedenberg pair that shuts down the other teams top players, we do have one half of it in Bogo.

Thanks again for a great post, I hope Chevy is realistic in his assessement of his club's defence.

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06-15-2013, 04:52 PM
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First of all, I love this thread and I love that you made it Jet(sorry, but always be Jet to me ). I've been doing alot of thinking about this, and honestly outside of losing a ton of man games to injury on our D core.

I am in favour of trading Stuart. I think given his intangibles, you could get a decent return. I also like re-signing Hainsey.

I think the team in general needs to tighten up defensively, and be more dominant in the offensive zone. One thing I noticed is that it seems like we spend more time playing D then actually in the offensive zone, outside of LLW that is. Who can only defend so well if you are constantly on your heels.

Another huge problem is that I find Pavelec lets in alot of goals when the puck is in our end for too long. Even if its first shot and they pass it around a bunch first, it's like he has a hard time following the thing or something.

These are problems that rest on the shoulders of the whole team, not just the D.

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06-15-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by VictoriaJetsFan View Post
Thanks for the post, it really is the issue that needs addressing more so than any other if the Jets are going to go forward successfully. I have often been puzzled as to why the talent the jets put on the ice is radically different from the jets abysmal goals against.

You did a very nice job analyzing each Jets defenceman although somehow its the group as a whole that does not quite make sense moreso than their individual talent levels. One example of this is the right handed shots versus the left handed shots. In an ideal world, we would pick up a strong left handed shot via the free agent market, sit back and just watch them grow. This is not a reality at this time. I don't think many people believe resigning Hainsey is going to work. A larger change will be necessary.

Personally, I think breaking up the Byfuglien-Enstrom pairing is where to start. The pairing itself is very weak defensively. Either adding someone to balance these pairings out or trading one may do the trick. Enstrom is supremely talented but appears very fragile. It's unfortunate Byfuglien doesn't play consistently more physical to help protect him a little bit more. Every time Enstrom goes into the corner I wince because it looks like his shoulders are going to explode. My dream trade would be Enstrom for Jared Cowan, but unlikely to happen.

Another trade scenario is Buff for the Schenn brothers, because Schenn is a defenceman you could build a defence first shutdown pairing around. Another thing I love about having young d-men is because of Charlie Huddy. He did such a nice job working with Bogo after his Atlanta train wreck experience that it bodes very well for guys like Trouba.

I just yearn for a Chara-Siedenberg pair that shuts down the other teams top players, we do have one half of it in Bogo.

Thanks again for a great post, I hope Chevy is realistic in his assessement of his club's defence.
Combined 2011-12 + 2012-13 seasons:
GF/20 GA/20 GF% CF/20 CA/20 CF%
Tobi-Buff 0.919 0.773 54.3% 21.8 17.3 55.7%
Chara-Seid 0.825 0.825 50.0% 20.3 16.5 55.2%

Just sayin



EDIT:
To add, Chara's real D-partner is usually Boychuck... their results do beat out Tobi-Buff but not extremely so.
~59% CF% (ie: puck possession) + 54% GF% (ie: plus/minus in a percentage)
This is also on a stronger team and stronger goalie


Last edited by garret9: 06-15-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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06-15-2013, 05:04 PM
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I say go youth. Let hainsey and clitsome walk. I could even go for trading Stuart and buff at the deadline if the youngins show promise. We need some turnover on d. I ask think a kulda bogosian shutdown pairing would be great.

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06-15-2013, 05:10 PM
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My thoughts:
  1. Love Stuarts tenacity. Don't like the game he plays, and agree that Clitsome, (and with some further seasoning) Postma and Redmond can be more effective. He should be able to return something decent in a trade.
  2. Buff: love the guy, but want a more "traditional" team and system. Other than Bogo, he will return the most in a trade. I do agree with exercising some caution/restraint as to when that happens. Wait for Postma / Redmond / Trouba to show they can handle additional responsibility.
  3. Enstrom over the last 2 years isn't the Enstrom I've watched before. 2 years of bad luck - hopefully he turns it around.
  4. Would like to resign Hainsey, but I don't think this is going to happen. One of C - P - R or T needs to step up to fill that role. This is the scariest part of going forward for me. Hainsey isn't flashy, but man can he eat up difficult minutes.
That said, and I don't want to turn this into another discussion of ****, but **** DOES need to step things up. Great thread - love your thoughts Jet / Brogo.


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06-15-2013, 05:14 PM
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Damnit PAVELEC!

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06-15-2013, 05:22 PM
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Damnit *******!
I've redacted my thoughts.

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06-15-2013, 05:22 PM
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I think its the defensive system. Seems to break down and I'm not so sure its totally personnel. I mean some of it is, like when buff stands infront and doesn't take the stick of the guy standing next to him.

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06-15-2013, 05:27 PM
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I think its the defensive system. Seems to break down and I'm not so sure its totally personnel. I mean some of it is, like when buff stands infront and doesn't take the stick of the guy standing next to him.
That's not a system issue though.

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06-15-2013, 05:59 PM
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Thanks for the kind words, guys.

It just seems like the Jets D doesn't add up to the sum of it's parts. I really don't believe it's coaching -- when you see what they've done with Bogosian, Postma, Redmond and Clitsome. I think they've all improved. Honestly, I thought Byfuglien was improving too but to me, his conditioning and commit level seem to be in question at times, and it's hard to coach that.

A little turnover for this group could be scary, but I think it's necessary. Sometimes there just isn't good balance or chemistry, and that seems to be the case here.

I look at the defense of the 06 Stanley Cup finalist Oilers. Of course, they had the best guy in the league anchoring it: Chris Pronger. They also had a real pure shutdown guy, Jason Smith. I consider Smith to be a Stuart who just made better decisions consistently -- blocked at the right time, hit at the right time, never out of position. Gritty meat and potatoes guy.

Then you start looking at the other guys that played for the 05-06 Oilers:

Dick Tarnstrom: Reminds me a lot of Enstrom, but a bit bigger and not as dynamic.

Cory Cross: Ran_y Jones, anyone?

Marc Andre Bergeron: Say what you want about the guy, but holy cow he could shoot and QB the 2nd PP unit.

Igor Ulanov: Think grittier Johnny Oduya. Plays very well for spurts, blocks shots with his face. Then makes the worst pass you have ever seen. Anyone who watched the original Jets loved/ hated this guy.

Matt Greene: He was exactly what his name suggested: very green. Played limited minutes. Tried to be super physical. Often out of position.

Alexei Semenov: Big, gangly oaf. Loveable oaf, but an oaf nonetheless. Managed to play pretty good D though you were always worried he was going to trip over his gigantic feet.

Steve Staios: Back when Staios didn't suck. Just a good solid defender, Jason Smith lite.

Jaroslav Spacek: Spazz was picked up mid season from Chicago and was really, really good for them. I see a lot of him in Clitsome. Stocky, good feet, decent offensive instincts. Really solid 2 way D.

So, why the comparison? It's the offseason Seriously though, the Oilers used a LOT of defenseman that year (didn't even include Syvret, Roy and D. Smith) I guess I see a lot of parallels in the D corps'. That D didn't get it together til playoff time, and of course Roloson playing like a friggin beast helped that club, but once the balance was there, that D played really well together. It was a good balance of offense, defense, size and sides.

I think where our imbalance lies is of course R vs L and also I think we need to add a D or 2 who are really good at defending. I think we have too many guys who are too offensively geared right now.

Enstrom: Forced to play as a defensive guy, yet is really an offensive weapon
Hainsey: Offensive guy converted to D
Buff: LOL
Bogosian: Our best shut down D, but even he is borne of skating, shooting and rushing
Postma: Offensive
Clitsome: Offensive at heart
Stuart: Our only purely defensive guy but he's just not very effective.

I know I haven't really talked at all about Kulda but I just don't know enough about him, and it's puzzling as to what the org is doing with him anyways.

Sorry for the length of the posts. I love D, I play D. It's my passion. I always watch the defensemen very closely. I guess that's why I saw positives in Jones others didn't

EDIT: Oh, and you know who coached that D corps that almost won the cup? Charlie Huddy.

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06-15-2013, 07:11 PM
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Sorry for the length of the posts. I love D, It's my passion.








Infraction begins in 3... 2... 1.

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06-15-2013, 08:23 PM
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Infraction begins in 3... 2... 1.

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06-15-2013, 08:28 PM
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First of all, I love this thread and I love that you made it Jet(sorry, but always be Jet to me ). I've been doing alot of thinking about this, and honestly outside of losing a ton of man games to injury on our D core.

I am in favour of trading Stuart. I think given his intangibles, you could get a decent return. I also like re-signing Hainsey.

I think the team in general needs to tighten up defensively, and be more dominant in the offensive zone. One thing I noticed is that it seems like we spend more time playing D then actually in the offensive zone, outside of LLW that is. Who can only defend so well if you are constantly on your heels.

Another huge problem is that I find Pavelec lets in alot of goals when the puck is in our end for too long. Even if its first shot and they pass it around a bunch first, it's like he has a hard time following the thing or something.

These are problems that rest on the shoulders of the whole team, not just the D.
Figured this needed a bit more attention lol.

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06-15-2013, 08:50 PM
  #19
Sweech
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FIRE EVERYONE!

Wait...

FIRE PAVELEC!

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06-15-2013, 08:58 PM
  #20
King Woodballs
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I wouldn't be opposed to trading Stuart but I don't think you could get the value he holds to the K
Jets back.

Let Hainsey go. He is not going to be worth the money he will get

As for buff. I am okay with or without trading him. For the right deal, trade away.

Keep enstrom. Someone needs to play d with bogosian

Sign clitsome. I personally saw improvement over the last couple years.

As for postma and Redmond, keep plugging away with them. They will improve


Hopefully we can find a decent depth d man at a decent price to fill in a gap.

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06-15-2013, 09:12 PM
  #21
sully1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOnASilverMountain View Post
I wouldn't be opposed to trading Stuart but I don't think you could get the value he holds to the K
Jets back.

Let Hainsey go. He is not going to be worth the money he will get

As for buff. I am okay with or without trading him. For the right deal, trade away.

Keep enstrom. Someone needs to play d with bogosian

Sign clitsome. I personally saw improvement over the last couple years.

As for postma and Redmond, keep plugging away with them. They will improve


Hopefully we can find a decent depth d man at a decent price to fill in a gap.
I think guys like Stuart, while admirable, are kind of a dime a dozen tbh. Quite frankly, I think there are better options out there for a number 6 defensman. Stuart, while tenacious, cannot move up without dire results...Clitsome has already shown that he can move up depth chart and function well.

Whatever value Stuart brings to the table in terms of leadership and work ethic and physicality can be replaced by other members of the roster.

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Old
06-16-2013, 12:24 AM
  #22
hockeyarena
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Enstrom - Byfuglien (trade but only for solid return)
Bogosian - Trouba
Stuart - Free Agent
Free Agent - Redmond

Hainsey: bye
Clitsome: bye
Posma: bye

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Old
06-16-2013, 12:37 AM
  #23
sipowicz
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Buff: last chance as a Jet, get in shape or move along

Bogosian: play a simpler game (like you did in 2012 when you excelled) and you'll be an all-star

Enstrom: trade for a top six ( but it ain't gonna happen, everyone else in the league can see his ah....shortcomings) if we keep him don't play him so much to the point where he's worn down and becomes injury prone.

Hainsey: gone, gone, gone watching him on his knees trying to play goalie the last 20 games was downright embarrassing!

Clitsome will be our 4th D at the start, great rebound in the second half of the season to the point that he looked like an NHL regular, if one of Trouba, Postma or Redmond steps up he is a good 5th D man.

Stu: keep, good 6th D man, plays with heart and tenacity BS that guys willing to block shots like he does are easy to find.

Postma: good up and coming D man, good O instincts, needs to get stronger, tad soft in his own end

Redmond: started strong and played well at first, showed deficiency's that were troublesome before he got injured. Like the simple games he plays and when he sticks to it he's good.

Trouba; still an unknown, training camp and pre-season will show if he's ready


Last edited by sipowicz: 06-16-2013 at 01:08 AM.
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Old
06-16-2013, 02:13 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Combined 2011-12 + 2012-13 seasons:
GF/20 GA/20 GF% CF/20 CA/20 CF%
Tobi-Buff 0.919 0.773 54.3% 21.8 17.3 55.7%
Chara-Seid 0.825 0.825 50.0% 20.3 16.5 55.2%

Just sayin



EDIT:
To add, Chara's real D-partner is usually Boychuck... their results do beat out Tobi-Buff but not extremely so.
~59% CF% (ie: puck possession) + 54% GF% (ie: plus/minus in a percentage)
This is also on a stronger team and stronger goalie
I am taking this as goals for and goals against.....cf and ca ? what exactly are we measuring? Thanks.

What exactly are Chara-Boychuk's numbers?
.

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Old
06-16-2013, 02:21 AM
  #25
StronGeer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaJetsFan View Post
I am taking this as goals for and goals against.....cf and ca ? what exactly are we measuring? Thanks.

What exactly are Chara-Boychuk's numbers?
.
Corsi For and Corsi Against.

A Corsi event is a shot directed at net. So this includes shots on goal, shots missed and shots blocked.

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