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Old
05-20-2005, 12:38 PM
  #51
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I mentioned Central Scouting and you mocked me for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
THN gets its prospect reports from the Central Scouting Bureau, NHL scouts, GMs, and directors of personnel, so if you wish to laugh at who's getting things wrong, feel free to laugh at the adminsitrative arms of the teams. (Please note that Ranger scouts, GMs and Personnel people are very definitely some of those surveyed, so feel free to spread some of your laughter to Sather and Co.)

Ultimately I'm not sure how much more "inside" or professional one can get than to ask those who do this for a living, but maybe they should be asking you. You seem to have an amazing eye for young talent, spotting things that pro scouts don't see. (I just wish you'd share some of this.)

In any case, since you apparently hold The Hockey News in contempt for its coverage of prospects, care to name a better, more reliable publication? Maybe even a publication that will back up your ludicrous statement that the Rangers have 39 bona fide prospects?

No? Thought not.
Now you are quoting them as one of your primary contributors to your hockey bible? Look you listed them first! See I knew if I posted something like my post you would respond and now you have exposed yourself for the phoney you are. How can I be wrong when I use Central Scouting and when you use it you are not? I thouhgt so!

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05-20-2005, 01:01 PM
  #52
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
THN gets its prospect reports from the Central Scouting Bureau, NHL scouts, GMs, and directors of personnel, so if you wish to laugh at who's getting things wrong, feel free to laugh at the adminsitrative arms of the teams. (Please note that Ranger scouts, GMs and Personnel people are very definitely some of those surveyed, so feel free to spread some of your laughter to Sather and Co.)

Ultimately I'm not sure how much more "inside" or professional one can get than to ask those who do this for a living, but maybe they should be asking you. You seem to have an amazing eye for young talent, spotting things that pro scouts don't see. (I just wish you'd share some of this.)

In any case, since you apparently hold The Hockey News in contempt for its coverage of prospects, care to name a better, more reliable publication? Maybe even a publication that will back up your ludicrous statement that the Rangers have 39 bona fide prospects?

No? Thought not.
They print what people are telling them. A "hyped" prospect gets higher tradevalue ect.

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Old
05-20-2005, 01:07 PM
  #53
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I agree 100% on your assetment of prospects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
an asset is worthless unless you do something with it, correct? So either one of two things need to happen with the asset, either 1) he turns out to be a good player, which we won't know that outcome for some time, or 2) he's traded for another asset, whose outcome may or not be immediately known. Technically a guy with a first round pick has an asset. That asset will decline or appreciate in value. It's worthless if it's not monetized. These assets we speak of have not yet been monetized, and are either only worth what someone else is willing to pay, or the paper their written on.

As for Sather getting credit - it's so tough to give someone credit who should not currently have a job. How many GMs have gone through as many personnel decisions as Sather, and have spent as much money in the same time period, and still has a job? I'm not saying his picks won't work out, because I hope they do because I'm getting sick of watching crap, but at the same time, I don't understand how the man has a job.
However, would you not agree that to improve your team you have to have prospects? It the old chicken or the egg issue. My whole point regarding prospects and whether a team is improving is multi faceted. I at least view an organization that way. There is the NHL team and within it are the players and coaches. The there is the scouting department. Then there is the development guys within your organiztion. I am hesitant to call them a department as they are your minor league coaches and rovering specility coaches that travel the minors, Jrs and college circuit working with your picks and minor leaguers. Together they comprse your organization. My contention is that 2 of 3, scouting and development are doing fine. The 3rd, the NYR squad has been the primary problem. We all know the issues there so I am not going to discuss them.

I agree with you when you say how the hell does the man still have a job. I have said that when the Trottier thing blew up I had had it! I would have canned he butt right then and then. But, reality set in. That late in the year, with all the trumoil the organiztion had gone through I had 2nd doubts as to whether we would be cutting off our nose to spite oursleves. I'll give you an example of what I am talking about;
Scotty Bowman was considered a genious in Mtl. How did he get so stupid in Buffalo, regain his smarts in Pittsburgh and Detroit? Was it the water, the air? Or was he just having a bad few years? Did Joe Torre all of a sudden go from dunce to brain surgeon my donning pinstripes? I don't think so. I think it is in the fabric of the individual. Sather has had problems because he is overly loyal. Far too many times he has keep loyal soldiers in key positions when they really shouldn't hold the position. If you have noticed many of the old guard are gone, coaches and scouts. I think he realized somewhere between his 2nd and 3rd year that times had changed and he needed to bring in some modern people. Renney for one. There is a certain Buffoon who takes issue with my points on this subject. That's fine. They are entitled to their opinion.

If we canned Sather what then? would the new guy, assuming it was someone outside the organization, have enough time to clean the house? If we brought in someone outside what ripple effect would that have had on the other 2 areas that felt were doing fine? Would Renney and Maloney have quit? What about the scouting staff? Get my drift? It was a critical point in time in NYR history and I am not sure, sure enough to the point, where if getting rid of Sather at that moment would not have caused more harm than good.

Having said that. After this draft is concluded and if there is a season, I give Slats to the end of the season to fish or cut bait. The difference being that I think we are restocked. That we are positioned to turn the corner and regain our feet. I understand that we do not have a super stud prospect. That is a result of trying to patch a sinking ship for the last 6 years. I feel it was compounded by bad drafts and few viable propsects within the organization from the previous regime.
I really like Neil Smith. I was sorry to see him go. I thought he understod NY and had the right mentality to be successful here and he was. But, something went wrong. The common thread in all of this is Cablevision.

If last season wasn't wiped out I think several of the prospects would have been given ample opportunity to showcase their wares and I think we may all have felt a little bit better. I think everyone would have agreed that we would have stunk, but I think we were and are willing to put up with it in order to further develop these palyers and get another really high pick.

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Old
05-20-2005, 01:14 PM
  #54
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Ola! No! You don't mean that people within the hockey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
They print what people are telling them. A "hyped" prospect gets higher tradevalue ect.
world would have alterative motives? I am glad to see that you have the experience to see that people may plant things in publications to serve their own puposes. You are from Sweden, no? What part if you don't mine my asking? I use to work for PKBanken and trveled quite a bit in the northern parts of sweden.

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Old
05-20-2005, 10:30 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
I mentioned Central Scouting and you mocked me for that.
Wrong poster, my friend. Try again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola
They print what people are telling them. A "hyped" prospect gets higher tradevalue ect.
That might have merit except for the fact that they're polling these people on other teams' prospects. If anything there would be incentive to devalue not to overvalue.

And in any case it's rather a silly proposition. Glen Sather is not going to reject his owns scouts' reports because an anonymous scout, GM, or director of personnel from another team has said something against his own prospect; nor is he going to allow a hype job to overpower the assessments of his own hired staff. (Frankly any GM who would take the assessments of other teams over the reports of his own scouting department should be fired.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
However, would you not agree that to improve your team you have to have prospects?
No. To improve your team you have to have NHL players. Owning prospects doesn't make your team better if they're not good enough to play for your team.

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Old
05-22-2005, 08:03 PM
  #56
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Guys...has Tyutin reached his ceiling? Someone in the prospect board seems to think that he has hit it and his performence MIGHT peak in 5-10 years.


Last edited by FLYLine24: 05-22-2005 at 08:10 PM.
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Old
05-22-2005, 08:19 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Guys...has Tyutin reached his ceiling? Someone in the prospect board seems to think that he has hit it and his performence MIGHT peak in 5-10 years.
haha what? the guy had a cup of coffee with the rangers, he's not older like Zidlicky, lol thats retarded. Let's have Tjutin play oh I dunno, maybe a full seaon

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Old
05-22-2005, 08:21 PM
  #58
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I know, the guy had a complete sh*tfit with me when I disagreed with him asking if I even watched him play.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=143862


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