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Old
05-18-2013, 04:55 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
Canucks only have so many pieces we can trade Kesler, Edler and Schneider are the ones with the value, Schneider won't be traded, so I don't know how we'd trade the price for Eberle then make deals to bring in a bigger power forward center and replace the loss of Edler on the back end as losing with will create a monster hole, on the D core.

I think trading Kesler for Shattenkirk maybe their 1st too? Makes a ton of sense, if we go with a core shakeup, gives us a young(24) top pairing puck moving right side D man to pair with Hamhuis and now Edler and Bieksa can be moved to help the top 6, something on the lines of B. Schenn, Couturier, Johansen type of player in a Edler deal then we can move Bieksa plus a 1st? For a winger
Kesler for shattenkirk and 1st.. **** that. He's the only that shouldn't be traded

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05-18-2013, 04:59 PM
  #427
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Edler, Jensen, 1st for Loui Eriksson

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Old
05-18-2013, 05:01 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Edler, Jensen, 1st for Loui Eriksson
Horribad.

Either Edler alone or Jensen + 1st.
Not worth it otherwise.

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05-18-2013, 05:01 PM
  #429
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and robidas

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05-18-2013, 05:01 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If we have more or less the same roster then I see it as a wasted year, and THAT should get Gillis fired. I'm not expecting this team to contend for the Cup next year, and as such this team should be bringing in some key building blocks for the future. If we don't do that then we're just wasting the year and not really accomplishing anything.
Every team that doesn't win the cup is essentially wasting a year then, right?

You guys make this "bringing in key building blocks" sound easy. It isn't, or else Florida, Edmonton and the other consistent cellar dwellars wouldn't be at the bottom of the league consistently.

You don't see Ken Holland getting fired when the Red Wings get eliminated in the 1st round. Right now they are doing exactly what I expect the Canucks to do next year. Use their young prospects at the NHL level.

You need to know what you have, before you go shopping right. You don't buy a jug of milk everytime you go to the grocery store do you? I don't. I check how much milk I have left first.

I think my expectations are more realistic than some I've been reading on here.

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05-18-2013, 05:02 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Horribad.

Either Edler alone or Jensen + 1st.
Not worth it otherwise.
then we aren't getting him.. simple as that

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05-18-2013, 05:03 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
the following players are not under any circumstances going to waive their NTC short of some incredible act of alienation by management

sedin, sedin, kesler, burrows, bieksa

they've made it exceptionally clear over the years that maintaining close connections to other members of the core was the primary reason for wanting to stay with the canucks and why they took less than what other teams would have offered. gillis has made it clear he will not ask players to waive their ntc. none of this adds up to even having a remote chance of being traded
Not really true, Kesler wants to win so if Gillis told him we're going a different directions I don't see why they won't, Burrows ntc hasn't come into play yet. I don't want to trade any of them outside of the twins but for value Kesler, Edler are the better options to trade. Also, Gillis wants a better relationship with the refs, could be why he's letting Lappy walk so if this is the case he may move Kesler and Burrows for this reason as well, I know they've cleaned their act up but a rep like their with the refs won't be cleared up, Torres cleaned up his game a ton and the league isn't easing up on him at all.

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05-18-2013, 05:04 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
then we aren't getting him.. simple as that
Oh well. Better than giving up that much for him.

70 point winger vs 50 point defenseman. The difference between them(if any) is not 2 1sts.

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05-18-2013, 05:06 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Oh well. Better than giving up that much for him.

70 point winger vs 50 point defenseman. The difference between them(if any) is not 2 1sts.
Edler has reached 50 points how many times? and you forgot to mention he's a trainwreck defensively.

Eriksson is easily a PPG player playing with the twins.

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05-18-2013, 05:09 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Edler, Jensen, 1st for Loui Eriksson
Lets not overpay or anything....

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05-18-2013, 05:09 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
here's what i expect has the highest chance of happening

A: ballard is exchanged for something - either its a buyout, or its a pick, or whatever, but its ultimately neutral
B: booth is retained - either because hes injured in the buyout period or because the team can't sign an impact ufa
C: raymond walks, not made a contract offer by the team
D: alberts walks, offered too little, signs aaron style contract
E: schroeder and tanev are extended to reasonable contracts
F: luongo is flipped for non-roster assets
G: gillis makes an effort to sign a 7th to replace alberts, and a backup goalie
H: lappy ultimately re-signs

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Higgins
Kassian - Schroeder - Hansen
Weise - Lappy - 12th
13th/prospect

Garrison - Hamhuis
Edler - Tanev
Bieksa - Corrado
7th*

Schneider
Backup*

im going to bet that any rookie other than corrado starts in the AHL
In this 'likely' roster...you have Higgins, Kassian, Weise, Hamhuis, and Bieksa all playing on the wrong side. That is...unlikely.

Especially when you've got stuff like 2 RWs playing on the same line and 2 LWs playing on the other, along with 2 RH shooting defencemen playing on the same pairing. The forward scenario being extremely unlikely...the defence scenario being downright impossible. You will not see 2 RHS defencemen on the same pairing unless something extremely catastrophic and unlikely occurs. VERY few RH shooting defencemen have any significant experience playing on the Left side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
i just dont see the canucks having a huge allowance this year for major changes. they're kind of stuck in that they had a bad year that coincided with a massive crunch in cap AND a bunch of contract extensions. i feel next year is probably going to be disappointing for a lot of people from a roster standpoint

i legitimately wouldn't be surprised if they leave a mil or a mil and a half cap space and use the accumulated prorated space at the deadline to acquire something they've had their eyes on for a while as a roster player

as much as he said he wants to reset, or re-tool, or whatever, thats just not a strength or a prevalent characteristic of gillis and his staff. they could make all the changes in the world but they would then be operating on an agenda that would probably see them get 80 cents on the dollar for most assets.

finally, the talk of trading burrows or edler just seems unrealistic. they gave them NTCs explicitly because they felt they could tolerate them on the team for the years/rate and a first round exit, while unfortunate, was likely not an unanticipated event. i dont think a management group that seems to pride itself on contingency would react in that manner
Take a gander at Gillis' early years as GM. If that's not 're-tooling', i don't know what is. Whether or not his Ego will allow him to go back to that model, i don't know. But it's not like he hasn't done it before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I sincerely hope that you're not holding your breath waiting for more to happen.

I expect the same type of roster.

A new coach, new philosophy, and the young players getting time to develop in the NHL will help change the culture of the room.

Expecting more is a bit ridiculous. The cap is dropping, we have luongo and Ballard who certainly need to go.

People need realistic expectations moving forward. This isn't a "cup or bust" roster. Time to realize that.
I do think we're likely in for a much more 'realistic' and 'reasonable' offseason than many are projecting here. We're not going to ship out half our core group for other players or anything. But i also hope and expect that we won't just see a complete retread lineup. When you say this isn't a 'cup or bust' lineup, i understand that it's partially a 'business strategy' of regular playoff revenue being worth more than a cup...but that's a pretty sad way to run a franchise from a hockey perspective, and at some point i'd expect the extremely fickle Vancouver bandwagoners to catch wind and bail.

And more than that...if this isn't a potential cup winning core that you want to supplement with pieces to make it happen...then wtf are we doing? Sitting in 1st round limbo until the Sedins are gone and we can start a rebuild?

If it were one off year, i'd say 'status quo' type summer might be reasonable. But it's 2 in a row where this team has been a playoff non-threat. That requires action and changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iFan View Post
I don't get how the Sedins play like crap in the playoffs then go play for their country and their freaking stars again, also most seems like they failed in the playoffs cause they had other plans.
It's a consipiracy!!!


Or just bigger ice and soft competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
You don't *need* size in your top 6, you *need* scoring. If it comes in a 6'3 player then great, but you don't turn down scoring just cause it's under six feet FFS ...
Ultimately, yes. Scoring is scoring, and we need it...badly. A small 60pt forward is a lot more useful than a big 20pt forward.


And on a related note:

>Trade for Brassard i says!

>He's too small they say.
>He's too soft they say.
>His underlying advanced metrics are poor they say.
>He'll never score in the playoffs they say.

>10pts in 8gms playing for 'defence first' team that struggles to score in the Rangers.

>cool.

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Old
05-18-2013, 05:11 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by iFan View Post
Lets not overpay or anything....
you don't get winning players without overpaying, getting extremely lucky or drafting them yourself and waiting 5 years..

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05-18-2013, 05:12 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
you don't get winning players without overpaying, getting extremely lucky or drafting them yourself and waiting 5 years..
That trade would cripple Vancouver

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05-18-2013, 05:14 PM
  #439
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That trade would cripple Vancouver
vancouver is already crippled.. time to fix it.

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05-18-2013, 05:16 PM
  #440
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I didn't ever say this roster couldn't win a cup. I believe part of the "reset" is the cup or bust expectation.

Lower the expectations and then exceed those lower expectations makes people happy.

I have no clue who you guys realistically see HUGE roster shakeup on the horizon. They aren't trading the Sedin's, so for as long as we have them, we'll be built around them, with a style that allows them to succeed.

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05-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #441
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also I meant to add robidas or another dman but can't edit my posts.

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05-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
vancouver is already crippled.. time to fix it.
What will that fix...two less potential young players and a locked in 27 year old dman for a guy you want to fit with the 33 year old twins? Who are UFA in a year?

Those are Calgary Flame moves if I do say so.

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05-18-2013, 05:19 PM
  #443
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Edler has reached 50 points how many times? and you forgot to mention he's a trainwreck defensively.

Eriksson is easily a PPG player playing with the twins.
Eriksson was on pace for just 50 points this year. People have this weird obsession to trash all our players because we got bounced in the 1st round, but somehow players from other teams are so much better in every way.

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05-18-2013, 05:20 PM
  #444
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you don't get winning players without overpaying, getting extremely lucky or drafting them yourself and waiting 5 years..
A winning player?

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05-18-2013, 05:21 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I didn't ever say this roster couldn't win a cup. I believe part of the "reset" is the cup or bust expectation.

Lower the expectations and then exceed those lower expectations makes people happy.

I have no clue who you guys realistically see HUGE roster shakeup on the horizon. They aren't trading the Sedin's, so for as long as we have them, we'll be built around them, with a style that allows them to succeed.
agreed. The Sedins are not going anywhere. In fact, most of the guys bandied about in trade proposals aren't going anywhere.

But that said...if we're not aiming to supplement the Twins with a roster that can win the Cup...what exactly are we doing?

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05-18-2013, 05:22 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
What will that fix...two less potential young players and a locked in 27 year old dman for a guy you want to fit with the 33 year old twins? Who are UFA in a year?

Those are Calgary Flame moves if I do say so.
How is this team anything like the calgary flames?

loui eriksson would be the best winger we've had since.. I can't even remember.

It's pretty dam obvious the Sedins need/deserve a real top line winger to play with before their careers are over. that or get rid of them and start over.. but we know that will never happen..

not getting them a legit top line winger would be like the Calgary flames... like Iginla never getting a playmaking center to play with his eniter career...

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05-18-2013, 05:24 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Eriksson was on pace for just 50 points this year. People have this weird obsession to trash all our players because we got bounced in the 1st round, but somehow players from other teams are so much better in every way.
it's all about chemistry.. and eriksson is a proven top line winger that has chemistry with the twins..

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05-18-2013, 05:26 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
agreed. The Sedins are not going anywhere. In fact, most of the guys bandied about in trade proposals aren't going anywhere.

But that said...if we're not aiming to supplement the Twins with a roster that can win the Cup...what exactly are we doing?
People had a "cup or bust" mentality with the roster we iced this year, right?

So a new coach, some minor roster turnover with some youthful infusion is pretty much the same team, right?

We're not entering the season planning to fail, we're stripping away the chaff to see if we can find the right mix.

I'm not saying a big move won't happen, I'm just saying don't expect it. And even if it comes, I can't see how we'd be any more favoured to win it all than we were heading into this years playoffs.

The team has to both be assembled properly and MOST IMPORTANTLY perform to its abilities. We haven't seen this team perform to its abilities consistently since late 2011.

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05-18-2013, 05:26 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I didn't ever say this roster couldn't win a cup. I believe part of the "reset" is the cup or bust expectation.

Lower the expectations and then exceed those lower expectations makes people happy.

I have no clue who you guys realistically see HUGE roster shakeup on the horizon. They aren't trading the Sedin's, so for as long as we have them, we'll be built around them, with a style that allows them to succeed.
Cup expectations are a weird thing.

People act like there's a direct relationship between having the best roster and having playoff success. There really isn't, or at least not a strong one. 5 of the 8 teams with home ice were knocked out in the first round this year, and a 6th only escaped by virtue of a miracle collapse.

You go deep in the playoffs by staying healthy, getting lucky in terms of the teams you face and the matchups you get, and having some guys get hot at the right time.

That happened for us in 2011 until our entire defense got injured and we were screwed over by the league. It didn't happen this year.

There's a great quote from Ken Holland a few years back where he notes that some of what he thought were the best Wing teams were knocked out in the first round, and some of the more average ones ended up going deep - his take was that the playoffs are a lottery, and all you do is get there with the best team you can every year and eventually things will bounce your way.

This team is still a contender. We've won 5 division titles in a row and are a year removed from 2 President's Trophies with the same core still intact. The mix has gone a bit off the past couple years and we've had terrible luck. We just need to properly address some weaknesses and keep coming back at it year after year until we can't win division titles or legitimately compete anymore.

There will be a few changes, hopefully another forward with hands and another defender who can log reliable minutes. And we'll be a contender again.

People like everything to be black and white. This is the best team, so this is the team that wins the Cup. That isn't how it really is.

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05-18-2013, 05:28 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
People had a "cup or bust" mentality with the roster we iced this year, right?

So a new coach, some minor roster turnover with some youthful infusion is pretty much the same team, right?

We're not entering the season planning to fail, we're stripping away the chaff to see if we can find the right mix.

I'm not saying a big move won't happen, I'm just saying don't expect it. And even if it comes, I can't see how we'd be any more favoured to win it all than we were heading into this years playoffs.

The team has to both be assembled properly and MOST IMPORTANTLY perform to its abilities. We haven't seen this team perform to its abilities consistently since late 2011.
I agree with everything until the last sentence. We had the best record in the NHL in the 2nd half of 2011-12, but because we weren't quite as dominant and didn't score quite as many goals as the 120 games immediately preceding that everyone acts like we were crap. We weren't. We were just the best team in the league by a smaller amount that we had previously been the best team in the league.

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