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Old
05-19-2013, 12:29 PM
  #501
y2kcanucks
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I'm a little surprised by the amount of people who are content with bringing basically the same team back. I guess people don't mind losing in the playoffs?

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05-19-2013, 12:35 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I'm a little surprised by the amount of people who are content with bringing basically the same team back. I guess people don't mind losing in the playoffs?
Yes, because a bunch of rookies will lead us to playoff success.

And I have no problem with using our current core again for one more season under a new coaching staff. I feel like we have the pieces to succeed, but we aren't using them properly.

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05-19-2013, 12:43 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Yes, because a bunch of rookies will lead us to playoff success.

And I have no problem with using our current core again for one more season under a new coaching staff. I feel like we have the pieces to succeed, but we aren't using them properly.
Not this year they won't, but that team is a lot better set up for future years than we will be by keeping this same core.

I honestly think scapegoating the coaching staff is a cop out. It isn't coaching that makes the Sedins become pure perimeter players in the playoffs. It isn't coaching that tells Higgins to shoot at the crest every time he gets a clear shot on goal. It isn't coaching that forces Edler to make bad turnovers. It isn't coaching that makes Kesler's body as brittle as rice paper. I agree our system needs a change, but we have the same coach and roughly the same group of players that went to the SCF just two years ago! I think the loss of a few key elements from that team (see Ehrhoff and Torres) has had a much bigger negative impact than AV deciding to play Ebbett for 4 minutes a game rather than insert Schroeder or someone else, and the loss of those elements falls on Gillis not AV. Don't get me wrong, I want AV gone, but because I don't like how he handles his lines and personnel decisions relating to rookie forwards with skill, but that doesn't mean that I blame mostly him for our shortfalls. I simply don't think this team has it anymore, and now that they've gotten older and are more years removed from the Cup finals run I have simply recognized that the best before date on this team has passed.

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05-19-2013, 12:49 PM
  #504
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This team had the number one PP in the NHL up until January 7th, 2012.

Yes Ehrhoff was missed and it was a mistake to keep Ballard over him, but IMO the impact isn't as big as people are making it.

Torres would be out of the league if he wore our jersey again. To that I have zero doubt.

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05-19-2013, 01:00 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
This team had the number one PP in the NHL up until January 7th, 2012.

Yes Ehrhoff was missed and it was a mistake to keep Ballard over him, but IMO the impact isn't as big as people are making it.

Torres would be out of the league if he wore our jersey again. To that I have zero doubt.
Cooke>Torres imo

Cooke will prob come cheaper and is just as good if not better and doesnt take bad penalties or get suspended anymore.

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05-19-2013, 01:09 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by SiCKNESS View Post
Cooke>Torres imo

Cooke will prob come cheaper and is just as good if not better and doesnt take bad penalties or get suspended anymore.
Umm no, I want nothing to do with Matt Cooke on this team. As a player he disgusts me, and we don't need a rat who goes around cheap shotting players and forcing other players on his team to have to drop the gloves and fight his battles when he turtles. No interest at all.

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05-19-2013, 01:29 PM
  #507
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If we intend to contend next year, we should be adding players, not subtracting someone like Edler. I say make a legitimate push next year, and if we still come up flat, start rebuilding.

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05-19-2013, 01:32 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If we intend to contend next year, we should be adding players, not subtracting someone like Edler. I say make a legitimate push next year, and if we still come up flat, start rebuilding.
Nope, a big change needs to happen now, we've had major scoring issues in the playoffs and this has been a problem for awhile now, we need to fix that this summer or its a massive failure and this team will look like a joke, going from cup contenders to bust with the same core intact.

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05-19-2013, 01:36 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If we intend to contend next year, we should be adding players, not subtracting someone like Edler. I say make a legitimate push next year, and if we still come up flat, start rebuilding.
I don't see how this team can contend next year. Our core is stale and proven time and time and time again that it isn't good enough. With a declining cap I don't see how we can make the big acquisitions to this core that is needed to become a contender again. Any sort of attempt to add one piece or two to this core will just serve to prolong the inevitable and regress this team even further into mediocrity. We're becoming the Calgary Flames.

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05-19-2013, 02:06 PM
  #510
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Best winger since Daniel Sedin ?
riight we only need one good winger.. it's clearly working for us.

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05-19-2013, 02:16 PM
  #511
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We need all of the following to stand a change to win the cup with this core.

- top line level scoring winger
- right handed shot on the PP
- elite faceoff center

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05-19-2013, 02:17 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Not this year they won't, but that team is a lot better set up for future years than we will be by keeping this same core.
But that proposed lineup is trash, we would likely miss the playoffs for the next couple years with it.

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05-19-2013, 02:19 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
But that proposed lineup is trash, we would likely miss the playoffs for the next couple years with it.
Doubtful. The proposed keeping the core together is trash to be honest. They've proven it. I'd rather take a chance on two hot shot rookies who have absolutely dominated juniors together, than give yet another chance to a garbage core that's proven they don't have what it takes.

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05-19-2013, 02:19 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I'm a little surprised by the amount of people who are content with bringing basically the same team back. I guess people don't mind losing in the playoffs?
We do not a plethora of options to make changes. Booth, Ballard and goaltending are the most obvious. While I have advocated moving Edler, I am also curious to see what he would do under a new coach. My one criticism would be not bringing back Roy, who was misused here and our difficulties at centre will lead to regret should be walk. I think we could deal our first to bring in someone like Cammalleri and make few changes otherwise, at least until the deadline.

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Old
05-19-2013, 02:20 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
We do not a plethora of options to make changes. Booth, Ballard and goaltending are the most obvious. While I have advocated moving Edler, I am also curious to see what he would do under a new coach. My one criticism would be not bringing back Roy, who was misused here and our difficulties at centre will lead to regret should be walk. I think we could deal our first to bring in someone like Cammalleri and make few changes otherwise, at least until the deadline.
I wouldn't be against asking players with NTC's to waive.

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05-19-2013, 02:23 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
We need all of the following to stand a change to win the cup with this core.

- top line level scoring winger
- right handed shot on the PP
- elite faceoff center
- We have Daniel, Burrows and Kesler.
- No, we need to utilize our powerplay specialist in Jason Garrison. Bieksa and Edler, when properly used, have great shots.
- We have Kesler and Henrik.

The additions you claim we need come at a high price. We would have to deal Edler or Kesler, neither of who we want to let go in a reasonable trade.

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05-19-2013, 02:25 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't be against asking players with NTC's to waive.
Like? Higgins and Burrows re-signed recently. Asking them would be terrible for future FA signings. Edler's has yet to kick in, thus potential remains and Bieksa is a possibility. Outside either of them, we do not have many options.

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05-19-2013, 02:29 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Doubtful. The proposed keeping the core together is trash to be honest. They've proven it. I'd rather take a chance on two hot shot rookies who have absolutely dominated juniors together, than give yet another chance to a garbage core that's proven they don't have what it takes.
even though there are trades that Florida would never touch and Tampa would probably not do, we are still without an actual top line. and a pretty terribad D core

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05-19-2013, 02:29 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Like? Higgins and Burrows re-signed recently. Asking them would be terrible for future FA signings. Edler's has yet to kick in, thus potential remains and Bieksa is a possibility. Outside either of them, we do not have many options.
I wouldn't be against asking the Sedins, Kesler, and Bieksa to waive, in addition to those you mentioned. This core isn't good enough, that's clear. People can be attached to these players all they want, but they aren't good enough.

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05-19-2013, 02:35 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
- We have Daniel, Burrows and Kesler.
- No, we need to utilize our powerplay specialist in Jason Garrison. Bieksa and Edler, when properly used, have great shots.
- We have Kesler and Henrik.

The additions you claim we need come at a high price. We would have to deal Edler or Kesler, neither of who we want to let go in a reasonable trade.
- Daniel, Burrows, Kesler is clearly not good enough.. there are several years of data to back this up.
- Bieksa is the only right handed shot of those three and he has an average shot at best..
- like I said we need another center that is good at faceoffs... like Malhotra was.

the year we went to the finals we were the lowest scoring team in playoff history to make it that far... and that was with Malhotra dominating the faceoff circle and Salo's bomb right handed shot.

lets not pretend everything is ok with this team.. it's delusional thinking.

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05-19-2013, 02:37 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
even though there are trades that Florida would never touch and Tampa would probably not do, we are still without an actual top line. and a pretty terribad D core
My proposal has a harder working top line. Not as skilled as the one we have now, but at least they will work hard. Kesler getting injured is almost a guarantee though, but I would put that lineup out against the current core in a 7 game series any day.

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05-19-2013, 02:38 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wouldn't be against asking the Sedins, Kesler, and Bieksa to waive, in addition to those you mentioned. This core isn't good enough, that's clear. People can be attached to these players all they want, but they aren't good enough.
Just because the team right now isn't good enough doesn't mean that as long as they are on the team the team won't be good enough. Adding an impact player or two can have a far bigger impact then you'd care to admit.

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05-19-2013, 02:42 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
My proposal has a harder working top line. Not as skilled as the one we have now, but at least they will work hard. Kesler getting injured is almost a guarantee though, but I would put that lineup out against the current core in a 7 game series any day.
harder working lines doesn't mean **** over more skilled lines. Clowe-Kesler-Burrows is in the discussion for worst top line in the league, and most defenitely bottom 5

Kesler is not, nor ever will be a #1 centre, so Mackinnon will have to take over that role (which will probably take 2-3 years at the earliest). In those years we will probably be a non-playoff team. The key part is that Kesler is in/at the edge of his prime right now, we can't wait 2-3 years and them expect him to be the player he is right now, especially considering the way he plays. Burrows will also be in his final years, and we would end with just Mack and Drouin up front (with maybe Kassian if he develops nicely)

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Old
05-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #524
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I'm a little surprised by the amount of people who are content with bringing basically the same team back. I guess people don't mind losing in the playoffs?
It's a lot easier to talk about gutting the team when you fill your head with fantasies of trading for 2 of the top 3 picks and trading a guy like Mason Raymond for a 1st round pick.

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05-19-2013, 02:46 PM
  #525
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harder working lines doesn't mean **** over more skilled lines

Kesler is not, nor ever will be a #1 centre, so Mackinnon will have to take over that role (which will probably take 2-3 years at the earliest). In those years we will probably be a non-playoff team

Clowe-Kesler-Burrows is in the discussion for worst top line in the league, and most defenitely bottom 5
I'd accept that as a top line if doing so meant the Canucks could bring a couple of potential superstars into the fold, but there is absolutely no way the Canucks could acquire either of the picks for MacKinnon or Drouin, let alone both. It's an asinine proposal.

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