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Old
05-19-2013, 10:10 PM
  #601
arsmaster
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I don't believe comparing Hank's goal totals to his peers is asinine.

He makes himself easy to check because of his "pass first" (I call it "won't shoot") mentality.

To me that is the difference between the Twins being able to elevate their play.

They don't have elite finish, and hey try to pass the puck into the net.

Also feel the Kovalchuk comparison is just out to lunch. Kovalchuk PK's, has a top 3 shot in the league, and is a dominant shooter who also weighs 235lbs.

Guy is a beast. If he was Canadian, every kid in the country would own his jersey.

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05-19-2013, 10:28 PM
  #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Very rarely does being better "all-round" make you a better player than a dynamite offensive player. And Henrik is the very definition of a pass-first player, so comparing his goal totals to Toews is asinine.

Would you rather have Kovalchuk or Backes? To me the answer is obviously Kovalchuk, but I guess some people really prefer their forwards play a strong defensive game than a strong offensive game. I guess I disagree. Henrik is no slouch defensively either.(neither is Kovalchuk as well)

Kesler has been great this season. As was Henrik. Daniel was iffy, granted.

But what use is keeping an average prospect pool? We have no blue chippers or anyone likely to be franchise players. By the timeany of them(if any of them) become impact players, the rest of our core will have declined enough to make it not worth the while, and we'll only end up worse.

When the offence is close, then all-around game is HUGE. Kopitar gives you all of Henrik's offence and a better all-around game. In the case of Bergeron, his offence is definitely a step-below, but his all-around game is WAY better, thus I still take him over Henrik. As for comparing Toews and Henrik, when comparing two guys with similar points, I'd always take the guy with the 'balanced' stats (goals and assists) over the guy with mostly assists, as it indicates a more balanced player who is harder to predict and shut down. And even if you disagree, Toews again has a better all-around game than Henrik so the fact that he outscored and out-goaled him on top tells me they aren't even that close anymore.

And I totally get that none of our prospects are blue-chippers, that is a major failing of Gillis IMO, but Gaunce and Jensen are still NHL-caliber prospects, possibly even top-6'ers some day, so I am not willing to throw those away for a player that is overpaid, streaky, and 1 year away from UFA ...

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Old
05-19-2013, 10:45 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
And I totally get that none of our prospects are blue-chippers, that is a major failing of Gillis IMO, but Gaunce and Jensen are still NHL-caliber prospects, possibly even top-6'ers some day, so I am not willing to throw those away for a player that is overpaid, streaky, and 1 year away from UFA ...
Major failing of Gillis? Which blue-chippers did Gillis pass over with his bottom 8 pick each year again?

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Old
05-19-2013, 10:48 PM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Very rarely does being better "all-round" make you a better player than a dynamite offensive player. And Henrik is the very definition of a pass-first player, so comparing his goal totals to Toews is asinine.
If Henrik is a "dynamic offensive player" then it seems fair to criticize his goal scoring.

He seems more one dimensional than other elite offensive player

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Old
05-19-2013, 11:05 PM
  #605
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Whatever. I'm not going to get into semantics about how good the Sedins are. In my mind adding Vanek without losing anyone off our roster very easily puts our offense at top-5 in the league, probably top-3.

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Old
05-19-2013, 11:16 PM
  #606
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In my mind adding Vanek without losing anyone off our roster...
Sure, but that's not actually possible to accomplish. We can't even keep the roster we currently have, never mind adding a $7M piece.

 
Old
05-19-2013, 11:26 PM
  #607
Vankiller Whale
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Sure, but that's not actually possible to accomplish. We can't even keep the roster we currently have, never mind adding a $7M piece.
Okay, without losing anyone except Ballard, Booth, and Luongo.

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Old
05-19-2013, 11:46 PM
  #608
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Not a fan of Vanek either. Inconsistent.

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Old
05-19-2013, 11:56 PM
  #609
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Put stats aside and watch the 2/3 of them, Sedins were horrible, they were worse than Seguin, Seguin just didn't show up, he's still young, Sedins didn't show up and were costing us games with dumb plays and their vets and leaders, big big difference here.
That seems to be a common answer when talking about the Sedin. "Put the stats away"

ok

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:06 AM
  #610
John Swartzwelder
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A dream offseason (it's probably unrealistic)

Trade Edler for Eriksson
Trade Schneider+Gaunce for Schenn+Couturier
Trade Schroeder for Michalek
Sign Nystrom, Hannan, Benn, Eminger

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Schenn-Kesler-Eriksson
Higgins-Couturier-Hansen
Nystrom-Lapierre-Kassian
Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Garrison-Michalek
Hannan-Tanev
Benn, Eminger

Luongo
Lack

And of course... GET DIFFERENT COACHING!!!!!!!

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:07 AM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iFan View Post
Put stats aside and watch the 2/3 of them, Sedins were horrible, they were worse than Seguin, Seguin just didn't show up, he's still young, Sedins didn't show up and were costing us games with dumb plays and their vets and leaders, big big difference here.
How about this...the reason we lost is because we couldn't kill a penalty to save our lives and we took a million penalties.

The killing of the penalties is on our PK guys. The Sedins don't PK in the NHL but can do it successfully at the World Championships.

The taking of penalties is on the refs and the NHL IMO but if you want put it on the players, either way, that isn't the Sedins either.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:45 AM
  #612
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Kesler for Eriksson
Bieksa + 1st + 2nd + Z.Michalek + Hanzal (no idea how accurate the value is , and it doesn't even make sense for Phoenix)

Instant "core" destruction
Fire AV, Hire Tippet/Boucher

Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Booth Schroeder Kassian
Burrows Hanzal Hansen
Higgins X X

Edler Michalek
Hamhuis Tanev
Garrison Corrado
X

This team looks so much better structure wise than what we currently have.


Last edited by shortshorts: 05-20-2013 at 12:56 AM.
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Old
05-20-2013, 12:52 AM
  #613
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Trade Edler for that 3rd overall. Make it as high as Edler+Van's 1st of Florida's 1st+2014 2nd round pick.

Then Swap Luongo for Heatley and a 2nd. He is in his last year of his contract, so we bite the bullet on one year, and move Luongo out of division to a contender, as many Wild fans feel Backstrom will move on and Harding may not be able to play as a starter under his health circumstances. We swallow a bit of salary/cap this year, at the expense of a big free agent signing (in a small pond...), but get a sniper that can score one shot goals. The Wild get a new goalie, shave 2 odd million off in cap, and get a mentor for their goaltending prospects like Kuepmer.

Buy out Booth and Ballard, and resign Tanev, Alberts, and proxy players for Lapierre (spare C to step in and out for Lain), Pinnizotto (a tougher winger, someone who can fight, but won't cost a lot of cash...could be Weise too) and Vandermeer (a cheap, tough D with emphasis on cheap).

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Jonathon Drouin ($3.775m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Dany Heatley ($7.500m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.851m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.863m)
Zack Kassian ($0.870m) / Kellan Lain ($0.874m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Steve Pinizzotto ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($1.500m)
Andrew Alberts ($1.225m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
OTHER
Buyout: David Booth ($0.000m)
Buyout: Keith Ballard ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,257,403; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $42,597

We have our scoring line, our second scoring line of Drouin, Kesler and Heatley, as both Heatley and Drouin are more then capable set up men and not just scorers, a third line of Higgins-Schroeder-Jensen, which has speed to burn and Jensen adds a little size to keep them from being dominated, and a 4th "bang" line of Kassian, Hansen and Lain or our 4th line center.

D's pretty straight forward, two pairings that can skate, play shut down, move the puck and shoot, and a lesser used bottom line of Alberts and Corrado.

Schneider and Lack, and two other spares, and we're set.

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Old
05-20-2013, 12:56 AM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonz View Post
Major failing of Gillis? Which blue-chippers did Gillis pass over with his bottom 8 pick each year again?
I agree, the only year he made a mistake was in 2008 when we passed over Karlsson, Myers and Eberle. Every other year we have chosen the BPA so far and have had it work out fairly well. EDIT: But obviously hindsight is 20/20


Last edited by Plebeian: 05-20-2013 at 01:30 AM.
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Old
05-20-2013, 01:07 AM
  #615
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I agree, the only year he made a mistake was in 2008 when we passed over Karlsson, Myers and Eberle. Every other year we have chosen the BPA so far and have had it work out fairly well.
there's pretty much no way anyone thought eberle or karlsson were the BPAs over hodgson

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Old
05-20-2013, 01:16 AM
  #616
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Kesler needs some linemates. His lines has to be a threat to score for the Canucks, otherwise it's a complete waste of a player like Kesler.

If the Canucks can't find some legitimate 2nd line pieces this year, just go for the re-tool. This team won't be going anywhere if Gillis keeps experimenting with the Booth's and the Higgins' of the world. Either get an above average 2nd liner that can get it done with Kesler or start developing the likes of Jensen, Schroeder and Gaunce for those roles and wait to contend again in a couple years.

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Old
05-20-2013, 01:21 AM
  #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
I agree, the only year he made a mistake was in 2008 when we passed over Karlsson, Myers and Eberle. Every other year we have chosen the BPA so far and have had it work out fairly well.
This is rediculous...

Hodgson was the consensus on the 4 out of 4 draft rags that I follow with the only person considered in some mock drafts going ahead of Hodgson was Myers (who for the record has played like absolute crap for two straight years)...I think you would have an easier time getting Myers rather than Hodgson out of Buffalo.

The only miss I really get angry about is Anze Kopitar because he was so obviously the player that we were supposed to pick (no offense to Bourdon). All other picks were reasonable with Patrick White being the most notable reach and miss.

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Old
05-20-2013, 01:28 AM
  #618
me2
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Not a fan of Vanek either. Inconsistent.
Guy is a stud for the first 1/3 of the season.

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Old
05-20-2013, 01:29 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
This is rediculous...

Hodgson was the consensus on the 4 out of 4 draft rags that I follow with the only person considered in some mock drafts going ahead of Hodgson was Myers (who for the record has played like absolute crap for two straight years)...I think you would have an easier time getting Myers rather than Hodgson out of Buffalo.

The only miss I really get angry about is Anze Kopitar because he was so obviously the player that we were supposed to pick (no offense to Bourdon). All other picks were reasonable with Patrick White being the most notable reach and miss.
White and Bourdon are not Gillis' picks.

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Old
05-20-2013, 01:30 AM
  #620
me2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
This is rediculous...

Hodgson was the consensus on the 4 out of 4 draft rags that I follow with the only person considered in some mock drafts going ahead of Hodgson was Myers (who for the record has played like absolute crap for two straight years)...I think you would have an easier time getting Myers rather than Hodgson out of Buffalo.

The only miss I really get angry about is Anze Kopitar because he was so obviously the player that we were supposed to pick (no offense to Bourdon). All other picks were reasonable with Patrick White being the most notable reach and miss.
Yep. Kopitar and Hodgson were no brainers. No brainers - you don't even need a brain and somehow Nonis missed. Not saying they were 100% guaranteed but they were standout picks, if Barkov slips to 11th I'd be as surprised as I was with Kopitar getting to 11.

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Old
05-20-2013, 03:19 AM
  #621
LiquidSnake
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Kesler for Eriksson
Bieksa + 1st + 2nd + Z.Michalek + Hanzal (no idea how accurate the value is , and it doesn't even make sense for Phoenix)

Instant "core" destruction
Fire AV, Hire Tippet/Boucher

Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Booth Schroeder Kassian
Burrows Hanzal Hansen
Higgins X X

Edler Michalek
Hamhuis Tanev
Garrison Corrado
X

This team looks so much better structure wise than what we currently have.
Except that Kesler is what drives the Canucks and they would suck even worse without him.

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Old
05-20-2013, 04:18 AM
  #622
Horvat2Virtanen
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Except that Kesler is what drives the Canucks and they would suck even worse without him.
Agreed. As much as I'd love to get Eriksson, but not at the expense of Kesler. I get that you have to give to get and what not but trading Kesler would be the dumbest thing the organization could do. I'd easily move Edler for Eriksson though.

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Old
05-20-2013, 04:21 AM
  #623
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Agreed. As much as I'd love to get Eriksson, but not at the expense of Kesler. I get that you have to give to get and what not but trading Kesler would be the dumbest thing the organization could do. I'd easily move Edler for Eriksson though.
Id probably only move Kesler if EVERYONE was going or it was to some team that is overpaying for him. Like a Benn + deal.

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Old
05-20-2013, 04:23 AM
  #624
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Id probably only move Kesler if EVERYONE was going or it was to some team that is overpaying for him. Like a Benn + deal.
Yup forgot to mention barring a major overpayment. Benn does fit the description of an overpayment.

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Old
05-20-2013, 04:55 AM
  #625
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Agreed. As much as I'd love to get Eriksson, but not at the expense of Kesler. I get that you have to give to get and what not but trading Kesler would be the dumbest thing the organization could do. I'd easily move Edler for Eriksson though.
Agreed. We simply cannot afford to move Kesler. Cogburn tossed a pretty strong offer for Eriksson: Gaunce + Schroeder + 1st.

I'd like to sub out Schroeder considering we need a third line centre, unless we go the free agent route. Nevertheless, that is a solid alternative to trading Edler. Alas, I do not see Dallas shipping Eriksson our way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Kesler for Eriksson
Bieksa + 1st + 2nd + Z.Michalek + Hanzal (no idea how accurate the value is , and it doesn't even make sense for Phoenix)

Instant "core" destruction
Fire AV, Hire Tippet/Boucher

Sedin Sedin Eriksson
Booth Schroeder Kassian
Burrows Hanzal Hansen
Higgins X X

Edler Michalek
Hamhuis Tanev
Garrison Corrado
X

This team looks so much better structure wise than what we currently have.
In what world is this team "much better structured"? That second line would get eviscerated mercilessly, while Hanzal lacks any sort of footspeed to keep up with who's on his line and Higgins is completely wasted - a top six tweener on the fourth line? We would be a one line team that ends up frequently dominated sue to horrendous depth. Kesler goes nowhere unless a younger centre returns in a ridiculous package; Strome+ comes to mind.


Last edited by Bourne Endeavor: 05-20-2013 at 05:01 AM.
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