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Old
05-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #701
Verviticus
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And they're transitioning into a playoff team because of cheap young players like Cizikas and Martin. Those two are key pieces of their team, and I don't see them moving them easily.
no they're transitioning into a playoff team because their top end players are playing really well. nobody gives a **** if a 15 points in 45 games guy is on an ELC

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05-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #702
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First of all, I can't believe there's a proposal to trade Bieksa for two god-awful hockey players. Second of all, I can't believe there's somebody arguing that the NYI wouldn't take it or that those horrible hockey players are somehow contributing to their playoff success.

If anything, Islanders are being dragged down by Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas.

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05-20-2013, 05:48 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
And they're transitioning into a playoff team because of cheap young players like Cizikas and Martin. Those two are key pieces of their team, and I don't see them moving them easily.
They will not go any further if they stay stagnant with the group they have and continue to pick up over-aged UFA's. Their fans know this and many of them sense the time to make some trades is soon.

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05-20-2013, 05:51 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
First of all, I can't believe there's a proposal to trade Bieksa for two god-awful hockey players. Second of all, I can't believe there's somebody arguing that the NYI wouldn't take it or that those horrible hockey players are somehow contributing to their playoff success.

If anything, Islanders are being dragged down by Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas.
Cizikas has 3rd line upside and is extremely tenacious in his 4th line role with the Islanders now. I do not see him making the Canucks line-up right away, but rather a year away.

Martin is a good 13th forward to have. He is a banger that doesn't completely suck. Certainly better than Sestito.

The 2nd is to balance value.

I clearly don't value Bieksa has high as you do

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05-20-2013, 05:52 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
First of all, I can't believe there's a proposal to trade Bieksa for two god-awful hockey players. Second of all, I can't believe there's somebody arguing that the NYI wouldn't take it or that those horrible hockey players are somehow contributing to their playoff success.

If anything, Islanders are being dragged down by Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas.
Young Feisty Players Narrative

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Old
05-20-2013, 05:53 PM
  #706
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I clearly don't value Bieksa has high as you do
thankfully, bieksa probably values himself higher than you do and would almost certainly veto being traded, alone, across the country

edit: i dont quite understand why people think we're going to unload players with NTCS just because gillis said the word "reset". in his entire time here gillis has traded exactly zero (0) players with NTCs or NMCs and that number will probably climb to one, and only one, when he trades luongo

in terms of likelihood, and ignoring what the market wants (important to note this), the list of players he might move would be something like


ballard
booth
tanev
eddie
schroeder
corrado
burrows
hansen

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05-20-2013, 05:54 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Cizikas has 3rd line upside and is extremely tenacious in his 4th line role with the Islanders now. I do not see him making the Canucks line-up right away, but rather a year away.

Martin is a good 13th forward to have. He is a banger that doesn't completely suck. Certainly better than Sestito.

The 2nd is to balance value.

I clearly don't value Bieksa has high as you do
How is Cizikas on a crazy good Islanders 4th line but would not be able to crack our garbage/nothing one? Grabner is on that fourth as well. We haven't had a line like that since the WCE days.

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05-20-2013, 05:55 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
thankfully, bieksa probably values himself higher than you do and would almost certainly veto being traded, alone, across the country

edit: i dont quite understand why people think we're going to unload players with NTCS just because gillis said the word "reset". in his entire time here gillis has traded exactly zero (0) players with NTCs or NMCs and that number will probably climb to one, and only one, when he trades luongo
I'm trying to unload Bieksa because it's Bieksa. Not because of Gillis' press conference

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05-20-2013, 05:57 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
I'm trying to unload Bieksa because it's Bieksa. Not because of Gillis' press conference
my point stands

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05-20-2013, 05:57 PM
  #710
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If our defensemen concentrated a little more on being good defenders, and a little less on trying to be that "50 point defenseman", that would hopefully free up our forwards enough to actually try and create some offense, instead of worrying so much about being defensively responsible.

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Old
05-20-2013, 05:59 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
First of all, I can't believe there's a proposal to trade Bieksa for two god-awful hockey players. Second of all, I can't believe there's somebody arguing that the NYI wouldn't take it or that those horrible hockey players are somehow contributing to their playoff success.

If anything, Islanders are being dragged down by Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas.
i posted a couple pages back about what i thought would be the most likely turn of events after this off season, trying not to make my own judgement calls about the players, and im curious as to what you think

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=378


Last edited by Verviticus: 05-20-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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Old
05-20-2013, 06:27 PM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
First of all, I can't believe there's a proposal to trade Bieksa for two god-awful hockey players. Second of all, I can't believe there's somebody arguing that the NYI wouldn't take it or that those horrible hockey players are somehow contributing to their playoff success.

If anything, Islanders are being dragged down by Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas.
Are we talking about the same Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas here? The same Matt Martin who hits everything in sight and is probably the perfect 4th line winger, and Casey Cizikas who plays physical, can win face-offs, and oh yeah also scored more in the playoffs this year than either Sedin?

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Old
05-20-2013, 06:28 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Are we talking about the same Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas here? The same Matt Martin who hits everything in sight and is probably the perfect 4th line winger, and Casey Cizikas who plays physical, can win face-offs, and oh yeah also scored more in the playoffs this year than either Sedin?
now why would you care about a 4-7 game sample

edit: lol 4 in 6 isnt better than 3 in 4

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05-20-2013, 06:34 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
now why would you care about a 4-7 game sample

edit: lol 4 in 6 isnt better than 3 in 4
4 points is more than 3. Also 2 goals is more than 0.

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Old
05-20-2013, 06:35 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by Stonz View Post
Major failing of Gillis? Which blue-chippers did Gillis pass over with his bottom 8 pick each year again?
Well he's had 5 drafts now, plenty of opportunity to find one at some point. Overall drafting has been pretty weak IMO ...

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05-20-2013, 06:39 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by CanaFan View Post
Well he's had 5 drafts now, plenty of opportunity to find one at some point. Overall drafting has been pretty weak IMO ...
Gillis's drafting in the first round has been good, it's the subsequent rounds that has been an absolute train wreck, with the Canucks getting only 8 games played (5 for Yann Sauve, 3 for Frank Corrado). Pretty weak is a fairly big understatement IMO.

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05-20-2013, 06:45 PM
  #717
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Bieksa should rebound next year after he has surgery and isn't dealing with injury problems all year. Hopefully that means Hamhuis/Bieksa could be an option again, allowing Garrison to move back to the left line to solidify a second really strong pairing.

If the Canucks could land a really strong right side defenseman this summer via trade, it would really open up some options. Or they could try Edler/Garrison. It's really too bad we didn't see that a bit more so the team would know whether it's an option moving forward. If it isn't, Edler could be a guy that needs to move.


Last edited by Proto: 05-20-2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old
05-20-2013, 06:46 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
4 points is more than 3. Also 2 goals is more than 0.
4 in 6 is not as good as 3 in 4. i dont care what other weird equivalencies you want to come up with, 4 in 6 is 0.66~ and 3 in 4 is 0.75.

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05-20-2013, 06:47 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
4 in 6 is not as good as 3 in 4. i dont care what other weird equivalencies you want to come up with, 4 in 6 is 0.66~ and 3 in 4 is 0.75.
Don't use math here. Logic does not belong okay.

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05-20-2013, 06:47 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
I'm trying to unload Bieksa because it's Bieksa. Not because of Gillis' press conference
Bieksa + pick to Tampa for Connolly + a 2014/2015 1st.

Bieksa would actually be a top pairing guy in Tampa (Salo is right now, and we know Bieksa plays ahead of Salo).

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05-20-2013, 06:48 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Bieksa should rebound next year after he has surgery and isn't dealing with injury problems all year. Hopefully that means Hamhuis/Bieksa could be an option again, allowing Garrison to move back to the left line to solid second really strong pairing.

If the Canucks could land a really strong right side defensemen this summer via trade, it would really open up some options. Or they could try Edler/Garrison. It's really too bad we didn't see that a bit more so the team would know whether it's an option moving forward. If it isn't, Edler could be a guy that needs to move.
i would prefer to still use what we have now. edler bieksa wasn't half as bad as people thought it was and proper ice time for both pairings would fix a lot of the perceived problems

edler/bieksa could be an absolutely fantastic compliment to the sedins with the way they played last year.

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05-20-2013, 06:49 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
4 in 6 is not as good as 3 in 4. i dont care what other weird equivalencies you want to come up with, 4 in 6 is 0.66~ and 3 in 4 is 0.75.
Well the Sedins didn't even get to game 6. After Cizikas's 4th game he had 4 points.

I also like the fact that Cizikas scored more goals in his series than both Sedins combined. A point which you've also ignored.

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05-20-2013, 06:50 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
4 points is more than 3. Also 2 goals is more than 0.
You have to take into account games played

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Old
05-20-2013, 06:51 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Well the Sedins didn't even get to game 6. After Cizikas's 4th game he had 4 points.

I also like the fact that Cizikas scored more goals in his series than both Sedins combined. A point which you've also ignored.
He also has more goals than Jonathon Toews, David Backes, and Nicklas Backstrom!!!!!

They're all busts! Can't perform in the playoffs!!!

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05-20-2013, 06:51 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Well the Sedins didn't even get to game 6. After Cizikas's 4th game he had 4 points.

I also like the fact that Cizikas scored more goals in his series than both Sedins combined. A point which you've also ignored.
i ignored it because its not ridiculous enough to make fun of, and its not important enough to address. mason raymond had more goals than the sedins, but they were better players.

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He also has more goals than Jonathon Toews
mason raymond also has more than toews! i guess hes a superior player

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