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Allison Would Provide Proven Center Depth

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Old
05-15-2005, 08:50 PM
  #26
HuskyFlames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
Calgary might have to deal one of their D-men for a winger. The good news is that they have an abundance of defensemen to deal from. However, the quick question is which ones are untouchable from a Calgary standpoint. I mean, is Leopold available? Is Lyman available? Is Regehr available? If the Flames want to upgrade their offense, one of those players, unfortunately, will need to be moved.
Unless the offensive player is young and really talented, I can see SUtter picking up a cheap UFA winger to play LW to solve this problem for the next 1-2 years.

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05-15-2005, 10:47 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
calgary should make a blockbuster trade, sending Kipprusoff, Regehr, and cash to the Kings for Craig Conroy and the rights to Jamie Storr video footage
So they should trade off their starting goaltender, top pairing defenceman, and cash (which they weren't willing to spend in the first place) for a number one center? They had alot of success with him but taking two steps backwards to get him back is only going to create new problems. Spend on a ufa once this lockout is settled because the cba is going to drastically change the free agent land scape.

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05-16-2005, 03:32 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth
So they should trade off their starting goaltender, top pairing defenceman, and cash (which they weren't willing to spend in the first place) for a number one center? They had alot of success with him but taking two steps backwards to get him back is only going to create new problems. Spend on a ufa once this lockout is settled because the cba is going to drastically change the free agent land scape.
theres a reason why you aren't a GM
if you understood the proper ecnomoics of how these kinda things work, then maybe you'd see things in my light more clearly

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05-16-2005, 07:04 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
theres a reason why you aren't a GM
if you understood the proper ecnomoics of how these kinda things work, then maybe you'd see things in my light more clearly
We're so fortunate that you generously offered to perform standup comedy for our entertainment.

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05-16-2005, 01:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
#4 - The Flames need a top LW more than anything. LW is clearly our weakess spot for offense with the loss od Deano, Sappy and possibly Gelinas.
Reinprecht, Simon, Nilson, Nieminen, Nystrom, Wiemer and Loyns. That's decent depth on LW.

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05-16-2005, 01:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
While having time off to rehab because of the lockout is a good thing, no matter how much skating you do on your own..it still does not amount to getting the rust off in actual NHL game play.
Well at this point half our team is as rusty as Allison. It's not like Iginla played hockey this year.

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05-16-2005, 01:28 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
calgary should make a blockbuster trade, sending Kipprusoff, Regehr, and cash to the Kings for Craig Conroy and the rights to Jamie Storr video footage

end of discussion.
Please don't troll our message board.

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05-16-2005, 02:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Reinprecht, Simon, Nilson, Nieminen, Nystrom, Wiemer and Loyns. That's decent depth on LW.
That's an awful LW group for my looks. It's a huge question mark on how Reinprecht will play on the wing, save his injury history. I don't see any of the rest as top 6 forwards at all. Nieminen was a filler before we got him, and he might easily drop back to that level. Nystrom have yet to play a single game in the AHL. Nilson had awesome playoffs playing at C and might both drop back to his usual level or lose his game when switched back to LW.

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05-16-2005, 03:01 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas Time
That's an awful LW group for my looks. It's a huge question mark on how Reinprecht will play on the wing, save his injury history. I don't see any of the rest as top 6 forwards at all. Nieminen was a filler before we got him, and he might easily drop back to that level. Nystrom have yet to play a single game in the AHL. Nilson had awesome playoffs playing at C and might both drop back to his usual level or lose his game when switched back to LW.
Reinprecht has already played LW for us. It's not that huge of a question mark.

Both Simon and Nilson can play as top 6 forwards.

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05-16-2005, 03:11 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Please don't troll our message board.

do you even know what "trolling" means?

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05-16-2005, 04:04 PM
  #36
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In regards to getting Allison... unfortunately it's probably not going to happen... check out ever other Canadian team board and you'll find a post about how Allison would be such a great fit. My guess is, every team in the NHL is gonna go after him and that the Flames, Oilers, Habs and Ottawa will be hard pressed to find the money to bid on him.

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05-16-2005, 04:20 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas Time
I don't see any of the rest as top 6 forwards at all.
Where's it stated that a "top 6" forward is needed, in order to get time on a scoring line? After Elias, the Devils have a large assortment of grinders, throughout their roster. They built their team from the net out. You have outstanding goaltending, with a strong defense and some forwards, capable of scoring timely goals...all under a reasonable payroll. That sounds like a decent model to follow. If it sounds familiar, it ought to, because it's basically how the Flames are currently structured.

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05-16-2005, 04:50 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mat
do you even know what "trolling" means?
Yes.

"Trolling: Do not post topics with the sole purpose of starting a dispute."

What do you call it when someone proposes that you trade your young #1 defenseman, #1 goalie in his prime and cash for an older player your GM let leave as a free agent (and then replaced via trade) and a videotape?

It's either a joke or it's a troll as far as I'm concerned. And if it was a joke, that's about the worst joke I've ever heard.

More ignore list fodder I guess.

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05-16-2005, 06:39 PM
  #39
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Letting Gelinas leave is addition from subtraction imho.

He is very inconsistent during the regular season and seems to be in Sutters dog house most of the year b/c of his style of play.

Considering Gelinas is one of teh faster skaters on the Flames roster I think he was the player who recieved the most hooking and obstruction (lazy penalties) penalties. He was weak on the forecheck and and his aggressive levels were by far not up to par when compared to the aggressive play of everyone else on the team. I dont mean fighting or big hits just that tireless never say die attitude that guys like Nilson and Yelle show. Gelinas really lacked in that department.

After slamming Gelinas I also have to say he did have a knack for being able to fill in decently in a scoring line. I think he still has stuff to offer to a team in the NHL but I think he owuld do much better in a different system with a different coach.

We have better players who are more suited to the 3rd and 4th line role than Gelinas. I would also rather give the 1st and 2nd line LW duties to Reinprecht, Simon or Nilson than Gelinas.

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Old
05-16-2005, 07:43 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badger Bob
Where's it stated that a "top 6" forward is needed, in order to get time on a scoring line? After Elias, the Devils have a large assortment of grinders, throughout their roster. They built their team from the net out. You have outstanding goaltending, with a strong defense and some forwards, capable of scoring timely goals...all under a reasonable payroll. That sounds like a decent model to follow. If it sounds familiar, it ought to, because it's basically how the Flames are currently structured.
Why a team, that went to game 7 in finals should follow a team, that was out of the first round of playoffs? Elias is so much better, than Reinprecht, that I don't see a real comparision here. In fact, Tampa had two scoring lines with Lecacalier, St.Louis, Richards, Modin, Fedotenko and Stillman. That's an example to follow. Why should we learn from losers Devils, we should learn from a team, that won.

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05-16-2005, 08:02 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Yes.

"Trolling: Do not post topics with the sole purpose of starting a dispute."

What do you call it when someone proposes that you trade your young #1 defenseman, #1 goalie in his prime and cash for an older player your GM let leave as a free agent (and then replaced via trade) and a videotape?

It's either a joke or it's a troll as far as I'm concerned. And if it was a joke, that's about the worst joke I've ever heard.

More ignore list fodder I guess.
if you had no idea that was a joke then you must suck at life.

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Old
05-16-2005, 08:39 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
if you had no idea that was a joke then you must suck at life.
You don't even know who FDW is... he's a well-respected knowledgeable poster who makes a strong argument.

And I agree with him - in a thread about Jason Allison, don't make a trolling proposal about trading Kiprusoff and Regehr for Conroy and Jamie Storr video footage. Is that supposed to be funny? I wasn't laughing.

Stay on topic.

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Old
05-16-2005, 09:11 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Is that supposed to be funny? I wasn't laughing.
maybe if you had Jamie Storr video footage, you'd be able to buy a sense of humor.

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Old
05-16-2005, 09:14 PM
  #44
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"One thing that Craig Button was completely right about was wanting to change the culture of losing by bringing in players, who'd been a part of winning organizations. Sutter, apparently, shares this philosophy, for the most part."

I disagree. Simon came from Rangers, who missed playoffs for what 7 years in a row? Nilson came from lousy Florida Panthers, Nieminen came from horrible Blackhawks. I won't call those teams "winning organizations". And let's talk about the most important trade Sutter ever made. Did Kiprussoff EVER display anything remotely close to "winner" before he went to Calgary? I think, whole this "winner" thing is highly overrated.

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Old
05-16-2005, 09:33 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas Time
"One thing that Craig Button was completely right about was wanting to change the culture of losing by bringing in players, who'd been a part of winning organizations. Sutter, apparently, shares this philosophy, for the most part."

I disagree. Simon came from Rangers, who missed playoffs for what 7 years in a row? Nilson came from lousy Florida Panthers, Nieminen came from horrible Blackhawks. I won't call those teams "winning organizations". And let's talk about the most important trade Sutter ever made. Did Kiprussoff EVER display anything remotely close to "winner" before he went to Calgary? I think, whole this "winner" thing is highly overrated.
Simon and Niemenen had won Cups in Colorado, and Simon was a key contributor to the Capitals, when they made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. (These facts were already mentioned, earlier in the thread.) Kiprusoff came from a winning organization, and there was something in his ability, which Sutter obviously recognized as being potentially helpful to the Flames. Nilson was with a team, which was in a rebuilding phase. If he'd remained, maybe he'd be preparing to excel under a new system with better players.

Since you want to debate the topic, the other side could be considered. The Flames organization is clearly better for having removed non-winners such as Stillman (yeah, it's galling to have his name inscribed), Savard and Nichol.

Certain players are better able to contribute to a winning atmosphere, and others don't. It's not a real controversial subject, and it's not universal either, by any stretch.


Last edited by Badger Bob: 05-16-2005 at 09:40 PM.
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05-16-2005, 11:01 PM
  #46
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Why a team, that went to game 7 in finals should follow a team, that was out of the first round of playoffs? Elias is so much better, than Reinprecht, that I don't see a real comparision here. In fact, Tampa had two scoring lines with Lecacalier, St.Louis, Richards, Modin, Fedotenko and Stillman. That's an example to follow. Why should we learn from losers Devils, we should learn from a team, that won.
The Devils have 3 cups since 95 and have consistantly performed at a high level for a decade, they are hardly 'losers' and their model is a legit one to follow.

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05-17-2005, 12:00 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas Time
Why a team, that went to game 7 in finals should follow a team, that was out of the first round of playoffs? Elias is so much better, than Reinprecht, that I don't see a real comparision here. In fact, Tampa had two scoring lines with Lecacalier, St.Louis, Richards, Modin, Fedotenko and Stillman. That's an example to follow. Why should we learn from losers Devils, we should learn from a team, that won.

You are missing the point here. The poster was not comparing Reinprecht with Elias, rather he was comparing the Flames and Devils in the fact that both really only have one or a few bonafied top line scorers. Devils have Elais, Calgary has Iginla. But both teams win becaause they play a great system, great team defense, score by committee and have excellent goaltending.

As well, you must have been living under a rock for the past 10 years while the Devils won 3 Stanley Cups. In contrast, the Avalanche, a team with an abundance of scoring have only won 2.

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05-17-2005, 12:59 AM
  #48
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A few things to consider - there are a number of people on the board who are concerned about the Flames left wing, and totally happy with the center ice position. Where is the scoring depth at center ice? Lombardi went down in the playoffs, and he has had limited ice time a full year later. During this stint, he has not lit it up in the AHL never mind the NHL. Hardly a lock on that second line. Reinprecht was injured for most of last year. He may be healthy when the NHL returns, but he may not. Where is all this scoring depth? Wiemer? Langkow and, who is the lock for the second line center position? If you don't know who it is, just how solid is that position?

The year Allison joined the Bruins from Washington, he was the leading scorer, and the Bruins increased their point total by 30 points. That year was the first time they had been in the playoffs for two years. Also, he scored eight points in six playoff games. He never elevates his game?

The next year, he led the Bruins scoring race again, and the team made the playoffs. Allison scored 11 points in 12 games.

Under Pat Burns, Allison was named Captain of the Bruins. He responded by scoring 36 goals and 59 assists. If that isn't elevating his game, then what is? Pat Burns is not a coach who puts up with attitude from his players, never mind his Captain either. The assertion that he is a poison in a locker room, is crap.

When he moved to LA, they got into the playoffs. As a matter of fact, Allison scored 3 goals and 3 assists in 7 games. This, in spite of the fact that the Kings were a team on the downhill slide ever since they lost Blake. It is true, he did not lead them to the playoffs the following year, but that is kind of difficult given that he was injured all year and played only 26 games. In addition, Adam Deadmarsh only played 20 games that season. People may be comfortable blaming that failure to make the playoffs on Allison, but I think it is ridiculous to do so.

The Flames could use a 6'4 220 pounder at center ice on one of their top two lines. As it stands now, there are far more questions than answers at center ice.

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05-17-2005, 01:06 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abracanada
A few things to consider - there are a number of people on the board who are concerned about the Flames left wing, and totally happy with the center ice position. Where is the scoring depth at center ice? Lombardi went down in the playoffs, and he has had limited ice time a full year later. During this stint, he has not lit it up in the AHL never mind the NHL. Hardly a lock on that second line. Reinprecht was injured for most of last year. He may be healthy when the NHL returns, but he may not. Where is all this scoring depth? Wiemer? Langkow and, who is the lock for the second line center position? If you don't know who it is, just how solid is that position?

The year Allison joined the Bruins from Washington, he was the leading scorer, and the Bruins increased their point total by 30 points. That year was the first time they had been in the playoffs for two years. Also, he scored eight points in six playoff games. He never elevates his game?

The next year, he led the Bruins scoring race again, and the team made the playoffs. Allison scored 11 points in 12 games.

Under Pat Burns, Allison was named Captain of the Bruins. He responded by scoring 36 goals and 59 assists. If that isn't elevating his game, then what is? Pat Burns is not a coach who puts up with attitude from his players, never mind his Captain either. The assertion that he is a poison in a locker room, is crap.

When he moved to LA, they got into the playoffs. As a matter of fact, Allison scored 3 goals and 3 assists in 7 games. This, in spite of the fact that the Kings were a team on the downhill slide ever since they lost Blake. It is true, he did not lead them to the playoffs the following year, but that is kind of difficult given that he was injured all year and played only 26 games. In addition, Adam Deadmarsh only played 20 games that season. People may be comfortable blaming that failure to make the playoffs on Allison, but I think it is ridiculous to do so.


i agree completely. thank you for posting this so i didnt have to....too much to write!

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05-17-2005, 06:04 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
Calgary might have to deal one of their D-men for a winger. The good news is that they have an abundance of defensemen to deal from. However, the quick question is which ones are untouchable from a Calgary standpoint. I mean, is Leopold available? Is Lyman available? Is Regehr available? If the Flames want to upgrade their offense, one of those players, unfortunately, will need to be moved.
When the NHL starts up again, i really believe that Lydman will be gone. I hope i'm wrong because Lydman and Leopold are the only Flames D men with any offensive instinct.

Regehr, Leopold, Warrener ( assuming the flames can keep him), and Phaneuf are the likely top 4 in 2-3 years. I don't think the Flames are going to pay lydman 2+ million for a number 4 or 5 position.

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