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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here) III

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:34 PM
  #626
25get
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Firstly my latest proposal including a 1st round draft pick.

Secondly, since when is Diaz and DD trash? Yes they're not the Ryan Keslers or Dan Hamhuis' of the league but they're worth something, maybe I guess not as much as one of Bogo or Burmi, but a guy can dream. Of all the times we get fleeced with trades, time for us to get more trades where we are the ones coming out on top (Cole for Ryder + 3rd = genius MB)

My final offer for Burmi and Bogo:

Eller
Diaz
Moen
Collberg
2014 1st round pick

I don't understand how ^ that trade proposal is bad.
It is a very good offer.
At this price, they can keep Burmi and Bogo.

I would not trade Eller for Burmistrov one for one.
Eller is proven, Burmistrov is more potential. He may have more but it remains to be seen. Also Burmi has regressed this season so his value is going down. Meanwhile Eller has gone up.

So it is Diaz, Moen, Collberg and 1st for Bogo...

BTW, trading Moen now is very bad asset management.
We can use Moen next season and he could be traded at deadline.

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:35 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
How is the 2010 draft class "very good". Is it considered deep in your opinion? IMO it's not. After Hall and Seguin, the talent level drops dramatically. What are you basing that Tinordi, Tarasenko, Burmistrov are "great" players. You make it seem like they're near the level of Hall and Seguin, when they're far from it. Tarasenko has been in the league how long? Burmistrov's numbers are...?

But nice try.

As for the trade value, then let's all come to a consensus that getting Bogo or Burmi or both would cost us Bealieu, Gorges, Gallagher, and Eller plus a high draft pick (1/2/3).

Not worth it.
First I didn't call the 2010 draft deep, read any trade I suggested, not. The very reason when making a post here, you might want to contact a lawyer first. God knows how many will think I'm a devil worshipper next! Give it a rest, I'm a hockey fan Not the GM's or your enemy.

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:40 PM
  #628
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Last two paragraphs... sold. The $3.75M/3yrs is fine. He earned it with that last bit. Hopefully he knows he can get money like that... it would be a shame if he re-signed in Colorado for half that salary, just because he thought that was the limit for him. Maybe the guys on the panel can make sure he knows it.
1.25 mil cap hit is pretty steep with the cap coming down and for a guy that played 6 minutes a game. He's a guy Colorado will probably offer something like 2 years at 1.4 mil(700k cap hit), so even as a UFA he shouldn't cost more than 900k-1mil. Max I would go is 3 years 2.85-3 mil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I know you're being facetious but most of the Habs small players are in the mold of last year's Kyle Wellwood (Desharnais) or Steve Sullivan from the past few seasons (Gionta) rather than the top scorers in the NHL. You don't see anyone dumping Gallagher.
Desharnais' work ethic is eons ahead of Wellwood who is lazy and a PP specialist, not even the same area code. If you see no one dumping Gallagher then Gionta should be in the same class as he has constantly been a guy that's played with no fear against much bigger players and also gone to the dirty areas to score. Gionta's style isn't as flashy as gallagher's but their grity and character and net drive are similar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
I think it's arguable that he's top 4 guy on most teams. I believe on all teams he's top 6. But on most teams I don't think he goes higher than that. And on weaker defensive teams like Toronto, us, Colorado, Columbus, he's a top 4 guys easy. The problem is I have another defenseman like that of which I feel the same way: Gorges. He's not a top 4 defenseman on most teams, but on all teams he's a top 6 defenseman. Now he doesn't have Diaz' PM ability, but he makes up for it in defensive prowess.

Also I hate to disagree but Byfuglien also is a big mother trucker. Yes he's effing slow as **** and very bad defensively but he makes it up by putting him 50+ point seasons and throwing some nice hits. I think Byfuglien is a top 4 guy on almost all teams where, as I said before, Diaz isn't IMO.
There are not too many NHL teams with a #3-4 guy that is clear cut ahead of guys like Diaz or Gorges. On an average NHL team they are clear cut top 4 guys. You can ague style/need and find a few teams where they would drop to #5 but there are not a ton. With a healthy lineup, Gorges was getting #3-4 minutes and Diaz #4-5 depending where Emelin's minutes were.

Byfuglien being big(biggest playing in the NHL) doesn't mean he isn't primarily an offensive defenseman.

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:43 PM
  #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Bogosian was picked in the 2008 Entry Draft -3rd overall behind Stamkos and Doughty. He's 22yrs old and has 4 yrs. experience in the NHL and flourished last season and this season. Zach has the potential to be a viable #2 defenceman with the Habs, being a solid defensive defenceman with good offensive ability.

Burmistrov was picked in the 2010 Entry Draft - 8th overall chosen right after Jeff Skinner in the Taylor Hall / Tyler Seguin Sweepstakes. A very strong draft that seen Tarasenko go at #16 and Tinordi at #22, just to give people a reference to how good these players can become.

They could be core pieces to add to the Habs young core group of Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Diaz, Emelin, Tinordi and Beaulieu. This makes a trade between two teams that are at about the same stage in development.

For Bergevin and Winnipeg GM Cheveldayoff, both former Chicago Hockey Execs, to come to some equally beneficial transaction there will have to be two core group players going back and possibly exchanges of draft choices.

This would be a reference point in establishing a fair value trade, remember the Habs and Jets both have fans and bosses to answer to when deals are made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
How is the 2010 draft class "very good". Is it considered deep in your opinion? IMO it's not. After Hall and Seguin, the talent level drops dramatically. What are you basing that Tinordi, Tarasenko, Burmistrov are "great" players. You make it seem like they're near the level of Hall and Seguin, when they're far from it. Tarasenko has been in the league how long? Burmistrov's numbers are...?

But nice try.

As for the trade value, then let's all come to a consensus that getting Bogo or Burmi or both would cost us Bealieu, Gorges, Gallagher, and Eller plus a high draft pick (1/2/3).

Not worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
First I didn't call the 2010 draft deep, read any trade I suggested, not. The very reason when making a post here, you might want to contact a lawyer first. God knows how many will think I'm a devil worshipper next! Give it a rest, I'm a hockey fan Not the GM's or your enemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
It is a very good offer.
At this price, they can keep Burmi and Bogo.

I would not trade Eller for Burmistrov one for one.
Eller is proven, Burmistrov is more potential. He may have more but it remains to be seen. Also Burmi has regressed this season so his value is going down. Meanwhile Eller has gone up.

So it is Diaz, Moen, Collberg and 1st for Bogo...

BTW, trading Moen now is very bad asset management.
We can use Moen next season and he could be traded at deadline.
Sorry, my bad. You said "Very strong draft". If that's a very strong draft, then this year's draft is an AMAZINGLY STRONG draft.

I agree that the Price for Burmi and Bogo is high and I like Eller, don't want him to move.

But look at what other posters replied to my initial proposals for Burmi and Bogo. Don't be mad with me because i'm making a proposal that everyone else apparently seems to be a "fair" trade.

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:50 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Let's get a few things straight here:

1) Emelin is not in the same league as Bogosian. Reasoning:
a) One of them was a Top 3 draft pick , the other was a 3rd round draft pick
b) One of them took 1-2 years to make it to the NHL, the other took 7 years.
c) Bogosian is bigger, handles the puck better, is a much better all-around D. Emelin hits and plays defense (not overly amazingly defensively too).
PMD don't grow on trees, but let's show the difference between being on pace for 40-50 points per season and ACTUALLY scoring 40-50 points per season. Diaz being in his prime now needs to produce 40+ points next year for your argument to work. This year he was on pace, then injury set him back.

LOL the reason why I offered more and more is because people said what I originally offered for Burmi and Bogosian was worth sooo little that WPG wouldn't even look at it. So don't blame me, i'm just trying to keep up with the "public opinion" that is the value of Bogosian and Burmistrov in the current trade market.

Next, what I would pay for either. Burmistrov (who is a #2B/#3A C essentially) should get 3 years 2.5 million per. Bogosian is a top 4 defenseman. Should get at his next contract 4 years 4 million per. Is that too much for you?
a) not important. Lidtrom, Subban, Karlsson, Chara, Keith, Letang were all picked way after Bogosian and they are all better than him.
b) Emelin was in KHL and in 2009-10, he was the best d-men in the KHL PO bringing his team to the finals. At 19 years old, he already had a 12 points season in KHL (best d-men of his team).
c) Yes: offense yes, defense also but less difference.

Money seems OK to me. A little bit expensive for our budget.

Between Eller and DD, I choose Eller.

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:52 PM
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
First of all, Markov is not in limbo right now, but will be after next season (idk if that's what you meant).

Second of all, Beaulieu is only 1-2 years from making the team in general. Locking up Diaz for 3-4 years to me, IMO makes absolutely no sense when in 1-2 years the guy who will end up taking his spot in the lineup will be ready. Emelin yes, sign away. Trade Diaz at the deadline and you could get a pretty penny for him, provided our team doesn't change so drastically that we're SC Contenders come next April (which I highly doubt).
Markov is in limbo in terms of, will he be around in 2-3 years. At some point you have to make a call on Markov, extend him, trade him or keep him till July 2014 and lose him for nothing. Unless Beaulieu makes huge strides in the next year, he won't be playing top 4 minutes in 2014-2015. Diaz is valuable in that he helps you develop Beaulieu at his own pace rather tahn having to rush him up to fill a need. Once Beaulieu is ready for big minutes, if you have Diaz signed at a good cap hit he becomes a solid trading chip similar to Pittsburth with Goligoski/Neal. He'll probably have more value after a couple more NHL seasons anyways, a lot more than as a deadline rental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're lyin to yourself if you think that Diaz is similar to Byfuglien in any way.

He's a good player but we have too many of his mold - that's all I'm saying. I'm not opposed to keeping him but YOU NEED SANDPAPER ON THE BACKEND. Subban is a two-way d-man and he's not a particularly brutal checker, Gorges and Markov either. That leaves the injured Emelin, the tiny and old and awful Bouillon and Diaz as the other three vets.

You can't keep this defense and expect to win anything when teams forecheck against us, not with how Therrien arranges the D anyway.
They resemble each other in that both are offensive/puck moving d-men. It's great that Byfuglien is massive and can occasionally lay the big hit, but he is still below average defensively and his bread and butter is offense.

I agree we need more sandpaper, go sign Regehr or someone similar, no doubt about that, but trading Diaz just creates a new hole taht will need to be filled.

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Old
05-23-2013, 12:58 PM
  #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
There are not too many NHL teams with a #3-4 guy that is clear cut ahead of guys like Diaz or Gorges. On an average NHL team they are clear cut top 4 guys. You can ague style/need and find a few teams where they would drop to #5 but there are not a ton. With a healthy lineup, Gorges was getting #3-4 minutes and Diaz #4-5 depending where Emelin's minutes were.

Byfuglien being big(biggest playing in the NHL) doesn't mean he isn't primarily an offensive defenseman.
Firstly, some teams top 4:

Boston:
Chara
Seidenberg
Johnny Boychuk
Andrew Ference

Chicago:
Keith
Seabrook
Leddy
Hjalmarsson

Detroit:
Kronwall
Ericsson
Smith
DeKeyser

Los Angeles:
Doughty
Mitchell
Voynov
Martinez

Minnesota:
Suter
Gilbert
Brodin
Scandella/Spurgeon

Nashville:
Weber
Klein
Josi
Gill

New Jersey:
Tallinder
Greene
Zdlicky
Larsson

New York Rangers:
Staal
Girardi
Del Zotto
McDonagh

Ottawa:
Karlsson
Gonchar
Weircoch (WTF, no)
Phillips
Cowen

Phildelphia:
Timonen
Cobourn
Mesjzaros
Grossman

Phoenix:
Yandle
Ekman-Larsson
Michalek
Morris

Pittsburgh:
Letang
Martin
Niskanen
Orpik

San Jose:
Boyle
Burns
Stuart
Vlasic

St. Louis:
Pietrangelo
Shattenkirk
Bouwmeester
Russell

Tampa Bay:
Brewer
Hedman
Carle
Salo

Vancouver:
Edler
Bieksa
Hamhuis
Tanev

Washington:
Green
Carlson
Alzner
Erskine

I just listed 2/3 of the league, where is Gorges higher on the depth charts for any of these teams. FYI, rotoworld (which is where i got these charts) had Gorges 5th on the chart and Diaz 3rd (which i'll agree, but most teams would have him 4th/5th).

As for Byfuglien, he has scored 50+ points as a defenseman before...hence why he's an offensive defenseman.

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Old
05-23-2013, 01:00 PM
  #633
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Where is all of this Bogosian speculation coming from?

Yes they shopped him 2 years ago but he's coming off a strong year and is a key piece for them, I have not ready anywhere that he wants to be traded or they are shopping him. I think speculating on him is a waste of time, if Hainsey hits UFA they pretty much ahve to keep him.

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05-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanfish90 View Post
Firstly, some teams top 4:

Boston:
Chara
Seidenberg
Johnny Boychuk
Andrew Ference

Chicago:
Keith
Seabrook
Leddy
Hjalmarsson

Detroit:
Kronwall
Ericsson
Smith
DeKeyser

Los Angeles:
Doughty
Mitchell
Voynov
Martinez

Minnesota:
Suter
Gilbert
Brodin
Scandella/Spurgeon

Nashville:
Weber
Klein
Josi
Gill

New Jersey:
Tallinder
Greene
Zdlicky
Larsson

New York Rangers:
Staal
Girardi
Del Zotto
McDonagh

Ottawa:
Karlsson
Gonchar
Weircoch (WTF, no)
Phillips
Cowen

Phildelphia:
Timonen
Cobourn
Mesjzaros
Grossman

Phoenix:
Yandle
Ekman-Larsson
Michalek
Morris

Pittsburgh:
Letang
Martin
Niskanen
Orpik

San Jose:
Boyle
Burns
Stuart
Vlasic

St. Louis:
Pietrangelo
Shattenkirk
Bouwmeester
Russell

Tampa Bay:
Brewer
Hedman
Carle
Salo

Vancouver:
Edler
Bieksa
Hamhuis
Tanev

Washington:
Green
Carlson
Alzner
Erskine

I just listed 2/3 of the league, where is Gorges higher on the depth charts for any of these teams. FYI, rotoworld (which is where i got these charts) had Gorges 5th on the chart and Diaz 3rd (which i'll agree, but most teams would have him 4th/5th).

As for Byfuglien, he has scored 50+ points as a defenseman before...hence why he's an offensive defenseman.
There are some pretty easy ones...Tanev Erskine Burns(he is not even playing defense) Niskanen Morris Grossman Larsson(was a healthy scratch some nights) Gill Scandella/Spurgeon DeKeyser Russell.

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Old
05-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
a) not important. Lidtrom, Subban, Karlsson, Chara, Keith, Letang were all picked way after Bogosian and they are all better than him.
b) Emelin was in KHL and in 2009-10, he was the best d-men in the KHL PO bringing his team to the finals. At 19 years old, he already had a 12 points season in KHL (best d-men of his team).
c) Yes: offense yes, defense also but less difference.

Money seems OK to me. A little bit expensive for our budget.

Between Eller and DD, I choose Eller.
so for b) he was the best D-man in the KHL during the PO or was the best D-man during the KHL season and brought his team to the finals? Sorry was a bit confused there.

As a 19 year old with a 12 poitn season in the KHL, that's fine and dandy. Look at Lidstrom's #s in the SEL (scored 16 in 39 as an 18 year old).

Definitely not out of our budget range. But a bit expensive I agree.

Eller >>>> DD. No doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Markov is in limbo in terms of, will he be around in 2-3 years. At some point you have to make a call on Markov, extend him, trade him or keep him till July 2014 and lose him for nothing. Unless Beaulieu makes huge strides in the next year, he won't be playing top 4 minutes in 2014-2015. Diaz is valuable in that he helps you develop Beaulieu at his own pace rather tahn having to rush him up to fill a need. Once Beaulieu is ready for big minutes, if you have Diaz signed at a good cap hit he becomes a solid trading chip similar to Pittsburth with Goligoski/Neal. He'll probably have more value after a couple more NHL seasons anyways, a lot more than as a deadline rental.
If Markov is back in 2014-15, Beaulieu won't be playing top 4 minutes, most likely top 6. I think this is the most likely scenario. What could happen however (depending on how he progresses) is that MTL says goodbye to Marky Mark (shame, loved The General) and Beaulieu is put into the top 4.

Agreed about Diaz.

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Old
05-23-2013, 01:22 PM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
1.25 mil cap hit is pretty steep with the cap coming down and for a guy that played 6 minutes a game. He's a guy Colorado will probably offer something like 2 years at 1.4 mil(700k cap hit), so even as a UFA he shouldn't cost more than 900k-1mil. Max I would go is 3 years 2.85-3 mil.
Us and Colorado won't be the only two teams bidding, though. It'll be like Prust, you have to go that extra mile beyond what seems "fair" to get him, probably. An extra $250k per year on the cap is negligible. If you're sold that he's the perfect fit for a given role, anyway.

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05-23-2013, 01:31 PM
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
There are some pretty easy ones...Tanev Erskine Burns(he is not even playing defense) Niskanen Morris Grossman Larsson(was a healthy scratch some nights) Gill Scandella/Spurgeon DeKeyser Russell.
[b]Tanev? Maybe, but now he's younger than Gorges at Age 23. So idk
Erskine? Ok
Burns? No way. Sorry. They're two different types of players but Burns has scored 40+ points before in a season. Gorges highest? 26. He's not playing defense cuz they have "depth" at D.
Niskanen? Better offensively, worse defensively. Wash.
Morris? Pretty much the same.
Grossman? Ok
Larsson? 10 years younger (why he's scratched some nights), will be a better player than Gorges

The rest you may or may not have a case.

Idk IMO, Gorges is a borderline 4th/5th defenseman.

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05-23-2013, 01:56 PM
  #638
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My off-season moves would be around a plan:
1. make the Habs top 3 lines more defensively balanced removing the need to overwork Plekanec defensively and take advantage of the offense he can create.
2. add a top 9 player with size that uses it consistently and who can stand in front of the net for long periods of time like Gallagher.
3. Improve Faceoffs
4. add a good goon that is actually good at fighting, willing to throw his weight around in terms of hitting, can be a positive lockerroom presence, understands he will be scratched.

Transactions:
- Trade Desharnais, Bourque, Weber, prospect/pick for Stastny and Bordeleau's UFA rights.
Stastny provides good production with low maintenance similar to Plekanec. He brings good faceoff skills and has already played with Pacioretty/Galchenyuk at the World Championships. Avalanche might be interested (admittedly wishful thinking) due to him being a impending UFA and having a high cap hit. Gives them more depth to go along with their quality 1st line. Bordeleau gives the Habs a goon that has been a force over the recent years. He's young and has more offensive touch/hitting tendencies than most goons. Fills 3/4 of the plan.
- Sign Bickell and Gordon
Bickell is not that great of a fighter but can hold his own and big. Throws his weight around a lot (21st among forwards in hits in 10/11 and 29th in 12/13). Provides some ES offensive touch and sound defensively. Might thrive with an expanded role (ie. Brouwer). An upgrade on Bourque who doesn't consistently use body consistently and is injury prone.
Gordon is a very good faceoff/PK/defensive player + right handed to boot giving the Habs better defensive zone matchup options depending where the faceoff lies. Lessen Plekanec's load on the PK and help him from getting too tired down the stretch.

IN:
C Paul Stastny (trade) 6.6M
LW Patrick Bordeleau (trade/UFA) ~1.0M
LW/RW Bryan Bickell (UFA) ~3.5M
C Boyd Gordon (UFA) ~2.0M

OUT:
C David Desharnais (trade) 3.5M
LW Rene Bourque (trade) 3.3M
D Yannick Weber (trade) RFA
(?) Prospect/Pick (trade)
D Tomas Kaberle (buyout) 4.25M
RW Michael Ryder (UFA) UFA
RW Colby Armstrong (UFA) UFA
C Jeff Halpern (UFA) UFA

Lineup
Forwards: 37.1M
Max Pacioretty (4.5M) - Paul Stastny (6.6M) - Brendan Gallagher (0.9M)
Bryan Bickell (3.5M) - Tomas Plekanec (5.0M) - Brian Gionta (5.0M)
Alex Galchenyuk (3.25M) - Lars Eller (1.35M) - Brandon Prust (2.5M)
Travis Moen (1.85M) - Boyd Gordon (2.0M) - Gabriel Dumont (0.6M)

Defensemen: 17.3M
Andrei Markov (5.75M) - PK Subban (2.9M)
Josh Gorges (3.9M) - Rafael Diaz (1.25M)
Francis Boullion (1.5M) - Alexei Emelin (2.0M)

Goalies: 7.9M
Carey Price (6.5M)
Peter Budaj (1.4M)

Scratched: 2.2M
Patrick Bordeleau (1.0M)
Ryan White (0.6M)
Davis Drewiske (0.6M)

PP1
Pacioretty - Stastny - Gallagher
Markov - Subban

PP2
Eller - Plekanec - Galchenyuk
Emelin - Diaz

PK1
Gordon - Eller/Moen
Gorges - Diaz

PK2
Plekanec - Prust/Moen
Emelin - Subban

Hamilton Bulldogs should have a lot more viable callup options next season as mot of the rookies will be more NHL ready to go along with Leblanc/Kristo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Desharnais' work ethic is eons ahead of Wellwood who is lazy and a PP specialist, not even the same area code. If you see no one dumping Gallagher then Gionta should be in the same class as he has constantly been a guy that's played with no fear against much bigger players and also gone to the dirty areas to score. Gionta's style isn't as flashy as gallagher's but their grity and character and net drive are similar.
Wellwood is also better defensively and has more skill. If DD faced the same offensive competition Wellwood has in the past few years and had similar quality linemates, the 5 on 5 numbers wouldn't be so different IMO. Case in point, Wellwood's numbers from last season centering Ladd/Kane/Little or his time with the Leafs. No two players are the same but in terms of value I don't see how they cannot be comparable. Desharnais may have more value perhaps but at their best production scenario they are similar players - which is what I refer to.

Gionta is regressing and has a 5.0M cap hit for someone that's is now more of a 3rd liner. His shooting rate is going down due likely to him losing speed over the past couple seasons with him nearing 35 - less space/time to get pucks to the net like he used to. Seems to have issues with his arms now. Not sure how anyone can justify him to being in the Habs long term plans or him holding much value in a trade. That's why I brought up Steve Sullivan's last few years as a value comparable. He's similar to Gionta, more skill/less gritty, but a ton of heart.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 05-23-2013 at 02:24 PM.
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05-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #639
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My off-season moves would be around a plan:
1. make the Habs top 3 lines more defensively balanced removing the need to overwork Plekanec defensively and take advantage of the offense he can create.
2. add a top 9 player with size that uses it consistently and who can stand in front of the net for long periods of time like Gallagher.
3. Improve Faceoffs
4. add a good goon that is actually good at fighting, willing to throw his weight around in terms of hitting, can be a positive lockerroom presence, understands he will be scratched.



IN:
C Paul Stastny (trade) 6.6M
LW Patrick Bordeleau (trade/UFA) ~1.0M
LW/RW Bryan Bickell (UFA) ~3.5M
C Boyd Gordon (UFA) ~2.0M

OUT:
C David Desharnais (trade) 3.5M
LW Rene Bourque (trade) 3.3M
D Yannick Weber (trade) RFA
(?) Prospect/Pick (trade)
D Tomas Kaberle (buyout) 4.25M
RW Michael Ryder (UFA) UFA
RW Colby Armstrong (UFA) UFA
C Jeff Halpern (UFA) UFA
I'm in on this plan, however it does look like there is a good chance that Richards is on the way out from the Rangers and they'll need a #1 centre, so the price of Stastny might have gone up.

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05-23-2013, 02:22 PM
  #640
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BMAC just tweeted that Malhotra is planning on returning next year.

He would be a good 4th line centre.

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05-23-2013, 02:27 PM
  #641
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If it saves us 500k to put towards a dman and top 9 winger, I'd bring back Halpern at 4C.

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05-23-2013, 03:19 PM
  #642
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If Markov is back in 2014-15, Beaulieu won't be playing top 4 minutes, most likely top 6. I think this is the most likely scenario. What could happen however (depending on how he progresses) is that MTL says goodbye to Marky Mark (shame, loved The General) and Beaulieu is put into the top 4.

Agreed about Diaz.
I think if you extend Markov it has to be at a cap hit where he can be moved if he gets squeezed out by the young d-men coming. My hunch is they give him another half year to see how his legs(and overall body) bounce back with a lesser workload and more days off than this year. At that point you make a call as far as do you extend him(if the price is right) or do you trade him for younger assets. Offensively he has lost very little, defensively is where he had some rough patches last year, especially on pinches. At a 2.5-3 mil cap hit(or less) he is easy to move and would fit on any contender and should bring back two good assets.


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Us and Colorado won't be the only two teams bidding, though. It'll be like Prust, you have to go that extra mile beyond what seems "fair" to get him, probably. An extra $250k per year on the cap is negligible. If you're sold that he's the perfect fit for a given role, anyway.
I don't see a huge bidding war for Bordeleau. He's a low end 4th liner, not a guy that can fill in on a 2nd or 3rd line like Prust. The 250k extra bumps you up to 900k-1mil.

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[b]Tanev? Maybe, but now he's younger than Gorges at Age 23. So idk
Erskine? Ok
Burns? No way. Sorry. They're two different types of players but Burns has scored 40+ points before in a season. Gorges highest? 26. He's not playing defense cuz they have "depth" at D.
Niskanen? Better offensively, worse defensively. Wash.
Morris? Pretty much the same.
Grossman? Ok
Larsson? 10 years younger (why he's scratched some nights), will be a better player than Gorges

The rest you may or may not have a case.

Idk IMO, Gorges is a borderline 4th/5th defenseman.
Burns is playing forward right now, he may not play defense any more.
Larsson will be better down the road but if you wanted a player to win a game today you don;t take him ahead of Diaz or Gorges.

At the end of the day those 2 guys are as good or better than the #4 on around 25 of 30 NHL teams. With Emelin healthy you have the freedom to play one as a #5.

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05-23-2013, 03:36 PM
  #643
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Wellwood is also better defensively and has more skill. If DD faced the same offensive competition Wellwood has in the past few years and had similar quality linemates, the 5 on 5 numbers wouldn't be so different IMO. Case in point, Wellwood's numbers from last season centering Ladd/Kane/Little or his time with the Leafs. No two players are the same but in terms of value I don't see how they cannot be comparable. Desharnais may have more value perhaps but at their best production scenario they are similar players - which is what I refer to.

Gionta is regressing and has a 5.0M cap hit for someone that's is now more of a 3rd liner. His shooting rate is going down due likely to him losing speed over the past couple seasons with him nearing 35 - less space/time to get pucks to the net like he used to. Seems to have issues with his arms now. Not sure how anyone can justify him to being in the Habs long term plans or him holding much value in a trade. That's why I brought up Steve Sullivan's last few years as a value comparable. He's similar to Gionta, more skill/less gritty, but a ton of heart.
Desharnais is a guy with a great work ethic that is self motivated, doesn't need a kick in the pants every few games like Wellwood. Wellwood is skilled but lazy and has a poor work ethic. You can compare them if you want, but any coach or Gm would take Desharnais ahead of Wellwood IMHO.

Gionta hasn't lost much, he put up numbers that project to 24-21-45 even with a slow start while getting tough matchups and PK work. He's obviously not producing at a 1st line level any more but teams usually don't have 25 goal scorers on the 3rd line. Sullivan probably matches him on offense but Gionta brings a lot more defensively plus being captain. His production is at a 3.75-4 mil cap hit level, being a UFA(500k) plus what he brings off the ice(500k) justifies the rest.

Regardless, there is no justification for being in a rush to dump them then have to use assets to replace them, they are not stealing a young player's job.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 05-23-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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05-23-2013, 03:47 PM
  #644
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I think if you extend Markov it has to be at a cap hit where he can be moved if he gets squeezed out by the young d-men coming. My hunch is they give him another half year to see how his legs(and overall body) bounce back with a lesser workload and more days off than this year. At that point you make a call as far as do you extend him(if the price is right) or do you trade him for younger assets. Offensively he has lost very little, defensively is where he had some rough patches last year, especially on pinches. At a 2.5-3 mil cap hit(or less) he is easy to move and would fit on any contender and should bring back two good assets.
I think, depending on how he plays next season, he won't get less than 4 mil cap hit, maybe 3.5 mil cap hit. Seeing how he was top 5 in points this year and depending how he does next year, that could change (increase or decrease). I agree his speed/defense was off especially during the stretch. Those legs I think are not where they used to be. For a trade to a contender at next year's deadline could bring back some nice pieces/assets/picks back.

Quote:
Burns is playing forward right now, he may not play defense any more.
Larsson will be better down the road but if you wanted a player to win a game today you don;t take him ahead of Diaz or Gorges.

At the end of the day those 2 guys are as good or better than the #4 on around 25 of 30 NHL teams. With Emelin healthy you have the freedom to play one as a #5.
I agree about Diaz/Gorges ahead of Larsson if we wanna win today, but most likely, our team isnt a SC contender so...

With Emelin healthy, sure, but the fact of the matter is that because our D doesn't have 2 top 2 D and 4 top 4 IMO, we make guys play outside their "peg rate" and to me that's not what Championship teams' defenses are made from.

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05-23-2013, 04:13 PM
  #645
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I say we do Diaz for Bogosian straight up... Sounds fair.

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05-23-2013, 04:21 PM
  #646
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He may not want to come here but I would love to have Briere sign with us. It goes against the whole "getting bigger" idea but I think he'd be a valuable addition to our roster. At the very least, he could come in and take Ryder's spot in the top-6. If we can move Desharnais for a physical winger....perfect.

He can play both wing and centre. This plays a huge part in me wanting to acquire him. We all (most of us) want to see Eller transitioned into a top-6 role and Galchenyuk to get time at centre. Desharnais, Plekanec and Eller can't play wing. Having the ability to diversify and limit the minutes given to Eller and Galchenyuk would be an important step for both of them without rushing their development. It gives us several options to play with, Prust's spot can hopefully be filled by a FA or by the DD trade return (Clutterbuck )

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Briere
Prust-Galchenyuk-Gionta

or

Pacioretty-Briere-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Prust

Other than size... are there any other issues?

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05-23-2013, 04:32 PM
  #647
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He may not want to come here but I would love to have Briere sign with us. It goes against the whole "getting bigger" idea but I think he'd be a valuable addition to our roster. At the very least, he could come in and take Ryder's spot in the top-6. If we can move Desharnais for a physical winger....perfect.

He can play both wing and centre. This plays a huge part in me wanting to acquire him. We all (most of us) want to see Eller transitioned into a top-6 role and Galchenyuk to get time at centre. Desharnais, Plekanec and Eller can't play wing. Having the ability to diversify and limit the minutes given to Eller and Galchenyuk would be an important step for both of them without rushing their development. It gives us several options to play with, Prust's spot can hopefully be filled by a FA or by the DD trade return (Clutterbuck )

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Briere
Prust-Galchenyuk-Gionta

or

Pacioretty-Briere-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Prust

Other than size... are there any other issues?
I don't see MB having much interest, the size thing is obvious but also needing cap room to fill other needs(size on bottom 6 and stay at home d-man) plus Briere had a chance to sign here and didn't so he can go pound sand. I'd sign Komisarek before him.

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05-23-2013, 04:37 PM
  #648
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He may not want to come here but I would love to have Briere sign with us. It goes against the whole "getting bigger" idea but I think he'd be a valuable addition to our roster. At the very least, he could come in and take Ryder's spot in the top-6. If we can move Desharnais for a physical winger....perfect.

He can play both wing and centre. This plays a huge part in me wanting to acquire him. We all (most of us) want to see Eller transitioned into a top-6 role and Galchenyuk to get time at centre. Desharnais, Plekanec and Eller can't play wing. Having the ability to diversify and limit the minutes given to Eller and Galchenyuk would be an important step for both of them without rushing their development. It gives us several options to play with, Prust's spot can hopefully be filled by a FA or by the DD trade return (Clutterbuck )

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Briere
Prust-Galchenyuk-Gionta

or

Pacioretty-Briere-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Prust

Other than size... are there any other issues?
The issue is we offered him more money to come play here almost 7 years ago and he turned us down. Now that he's in his twilight, you want to buy him and think he can be #1 C? That's my biggest issue. Don't forget although he's not a smurf, he doesn't scream BIG.

Pass.

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05-23-2013, 04:44 PM
  #649
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The issue is we offered him more money to come play here almost 7 years ago and he turned us down. Now that he's in his twilight, you want to buy him and think he can be #1 C? That's my biggest issue. Don't forget although he's not a smurf, he doesn't scream BIG.

Pass.
He's as much our #1 center as Desharnais is. However, he's a really good option for our 2nd line.

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05-23-2013, 04:51 PM
  #650
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He's as much our #1 center as Desharnais is. However, he's a really good option for our 2nd line.
Daniel Briere past two seasons:

70 GP, 49 PTS

34 GP, 16 PTS

David Desharnais past two seasos:

81 GP, 60 PTS

48 GP, 28 PTS

One of them is in their "prime" and increasing his productions, the other the opposite. Despite being a few inches shorter, Desharnais is playing better NOW no doubt. Pass on Briere. Even as a #2 not worth DD money...

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