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2013 Draft Thread: "Shoo-in for Nichushkin"

View Poll Results: Draft goes Jones/Mackinnon/Drouin/Barkov/Nichushkin/Nurse. Who should they take?
Monahan 138 73.02%
Lindholm 51 26.98%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-23-2013, 09:41 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I don't think they'd do that deal even if we included both 2nds. They'd have to really like that player at 7 to fall from 16 to 37.
Yeah both 2nds is probably still probably light, but more reasonable.


I think there is a second talent drop off at either 6 or 7 depending on the person/team/scout your talking too. Wild cards with the Russian and Nurse/Ristolainen.

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05-23-2013, 10:44 PM
  #552
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Is Mohanan ready to jump into the NHL right away or does he need more time in the OHL?

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05-23-2013, 10:47 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Uindicator View Post
Ofcourse, only reason he's that high on their list is because he plays on the oil kings.
Which means they know more about him than any other team.

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05-23-2013, 11:02 PM
  #554
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Is Mohanan ready to jump into the NHL right away or does he need more time in the OHL?
I believe the consensus is that he's amongst the most NHL ready picks in the draft

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05-23-2013, 11:10 PM
  #555
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Whoever EDM picks at 7, I hope they don't end up in NHL next season.

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05-23-2013, 11:11 PM
  #556
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I'd be very happy with either Lindholm or Monahan, but I do prefer Lindholm slightly (at least for today -- it seems like I change my mind every day). I'd be very upset if we chose Lazar or Horvat if Lindholm was still on the board, and I've been an advocate of Lazar's for a very long time -- I liked what I saw at the u16s, and was ecstatic when I found out the Oil Kings drafted him. I worry about his playmaking a little bit, and with the wingers we have, I think it is very important that we get a playmaker before a shoot-first player. fwiw, I also see Lazar as most likely to end up on the wing (if he breaks into the top 6) out of Monahan, Lindholm, Horvat. To put it bluntly, we would be leaving a lot on the table picking Lazar/Horvat over Lindholm.

As for Monahan vs. Lindholm, I understand the allure with Monahan; Size, an ace on faceoffs*, excellent defensively, great character and work ethic, probably a little bit under rated offensively too. He would be a great fit on this team. However, some of the things Lindholm can bring to this team are going unnoticed -- some are comparing him to Paajarvi, wow, that is just a completely asinine statement, they aren't even similar stylistically. Anyways, Lindholm may not be the biggest player, but he isn't small either (He is very strong and utilizes his size very well, so much so that I'd go as far as saying that he plays bigger than Monahan does). He's also no slouch on the dot either* -- he went 52% at the WJC and I read somewhere he was 58% in the SEL against men (I don't feel like digging up the link right now), albeit he was mostly used on the wing. He is also very good defensively, and this is what separates him from someone like a Sam Gagner. His competitiveness and intensity are top notch too. Because of his right hand shot, he opens up the possibility of having two potent power play units. He could set up on the left half boards, and Yakupov's one-timer could be better utilized on the PP, while RNH/Hall/Eberle/Schultz can do their thing on the other unit. He also showed he's got a pretty decent net-front presence at the WJC (his hand-eye coordination is actually pretty impressive), that could give us some different looks too.

*I wouldn't put too much value in faceoffs. The game is so fast, the average possession lasts about 7 seconds. It is more important to have good defensive and transitional play to regain possession than it is to get first possession an extra 3-5 times a game. Remember that stat MacT said at his press conference, something about how every 40 defensive zone faceoffs results in a goal. The difference between say a 55% guy and a 50% guy would result in about 3-4 extra goals a season, maybe 1-2 more wins in a season, and that's being generous. Yes, this is an area that we can improve on, but it isn't the difference between a winning team and a losing team. Faceoffs are more so a luxury than a necessity. The first step to improving on faceoffs is the team effort, not the addition of an individual. We probably have the worst support from our wingers in the entire league.

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05-24-2013, 12:15 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
They have their own scouts who make their own lists. They watch the players. They dont go by the "services". Those rankings mean nothing.
I'm sure they have their own lists, but I would be stunned if teams don't look at the rankings out there and say " Hey, 3 out of 4 other major scouting services have player Z rated in the top 6, we have him 15th, let's look at this and make sure we understand why there's a discrepancy."

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05-24-2013, 12:50 AM
  #558
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I've seen him for more than a few games and I have always liked what I've seen. I was Monahan > Lindholm up until a couple of days ago but then I changed my mind so I vote Lindholm. Don't ask me for specific reasons, both seem like great prospects and I'd be thrilled with either one of them. I just hope one of them will be available at 7th.

I do not understand what Paajarvi, Kadri and laughing at Burke have to do with this?

Is Lindholm = Paajarvi and Monahan = Kadri in your opinion? I find that a bit odd.
No just pointing out you can't always go off what you read. A ton of people were surprised when MPS slid down to us at the draft, and they were mocking Burke because he took Kadri earlier then people felt he should have been taken.

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05-24-2013, 01:08 AM
  #559
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No just pointing out you can't always go off what you read. A ton of people were surprised when MPS slid down to us at the draft, and they were mocking Burke because he took Kadri earlier then people felt he should have been taken.
HF was surprised. Hell I was part of it.

But Bob correctly predicted MPS sliding to 10

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05-24-2013, 02:14 AM
  #560
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IMO if the choice comes down to Lindholm vs Monahan, you essentially have a Backstrom vs Jordan Staal like dilemma set up.

If I were to assess my own HF rankings - Backstrom was an 8.5C, while Staal is an 8.0B. Higher potential in Backstrom, more likely to reach his potential is Staal. Pens got some early dividends from that (Cup within 3 years), but long-term the Capitals have made out like bandits thanks to Backstrom luckily attaining that potential.

In terms of Lindholm vs Monahan, I give the same basic set up. 8.5C vs 8.0B. Lazar to me is a 7.5C.

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05-24-2013, 02:29 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
IMO if the choice comes down to Lindholm vs Monahan, you essentially have a Backstrom vs Jordan Staal like dilemma set up.

If I were to assess my own HF rankings - Backstrom was an 8.5C, while Staal is an 8.0B. Higher potential in Backstrom, more likely to reach his potential is Staal. Pens got some early dividends from that (Cup within 3 years), but long-term the Capitals have made out like bandits thanks to Backstrom luckily attaining that potential.

In terms of Lindholm vs Monahan, I give the same basic set up. 8.5C vs 8.0B. Lazar to me is a 7.5C.
They'll take Monahan if both are on the board in this scenario but I find that highly, highly unlikely that one of the two wouldn't be selected by Calgary.

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05-24-2013, 02:33 AM
  #562
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They'll take Monahan if both are on the board in this scenario but I find that highly, highly unlikely that one of the two wouldn't be selected by Calgary.
I honestly would be pleased with either choice. I'd just like to have one of them. At this point I don't think any of the 2nd-tier defensemen are ahead of either of these players.

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05-24-2013, 02:36 AM
  #563
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I honestly would be pleased with either choice. I'd just like to have one of them. At this point I don't think any of the 2nd-tier defensemen are ahead of either of these players.
In a lot of ways, we gain the most from the Nichushkin decision. Calgary was going to get one of Lindholm/Monahan either way, now we are guaranteed one of the two also unless something crazy happens.

That or we pick Nichushkin and get the power forward that we want, who seemingly can play as soon as next year.

Win/win either way for us.

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05-24-2013, 02:46 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
In a lot of ways, we gain the most from the Nichushkin decision. Calgary was going to get one of Lindholm/Monahan either way, now we are guaranteed one of the two also unless something crazy happens.

That or we pick Nichushkin and get the power forward that we want, who seemingly can play as soon as next year.

Win/win either way for us.
This reminds me of the '07 draft, when I'd wanted Voracek but figured he'd go at #5 after Kane-Turris-JVR-Alzner, leaving us with Gagner instead.

When LAK came up and announced they were going with Hickey, I started jumping around my house in joy, anticipating the Voracek pick.

Then Gagner happened.

If I hear Nichushkin's name in the top-5, I'm going to be bouncing around my house again.

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05-24-2013, 02:54 AM
  #565
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This reminds me of the '07 draft, when I'd wanted Voracek but figured he'd go at #5 after Kane-Turris-JVR-Alzner, leaving us with Gagner instead.

When LAK came up and announced they were going with Hickey, I started jumping around my house in joy, anticipating the Voracek pick.

Then Gagner happened.

If I hear Nichushkin's name in the top-5, I'm going to be bouncing around my house again.
Voracek had a good season this year, but I'd say he's turned out to be fairly equivalent to Gagner.

I'd be happy to pick Nichushkin too honestly if he's there to be picked and doesn't come attached to a KHL contract.

We've been begging for a power forward winger for ages, well there's one with a high degree of skating skill that's just fallen into your lap at no. 7.

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05-24-2013, 07:28 AM
  #566
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It may sound extreme, but if the Oilers take Lazar at 7 I may just contemplate my ongoing support for this organization.

I can understand the nepotistic, incestuous relationship they have in the management group. Bring back MacT? Okay. Lowe is immune to being fired? fine.

However, the idea that this extends to their WHL team? This is too much for me. So Lazar plays for the Oil Kings. So he has a great attitude- with the value that picking 7 represents the Oilers have to get the absolute best player available. At 7, that is not Lazar.

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05-24-2013, 09:26 AM
  #567
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How about Gauthier?

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05-24-2013, 09:30 AM
  #568
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The Oilers are basically walking out with one of Monahan or Lazar (unless a trade happens).

Bob's tweets and then MacTs conference call.....it's going to be one of those guys.

Monahan is basically the guy but if the draft board doesn't break in our favor than Horvat will be the pick (barring a trade of course)

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05-24-2013, 09:55 AM
  #569
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How about Gauthier?
He's garbage and has no offensive potential. In fact, no one should look at him until the 37th overall pick.


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05-24-2013, 10:00 AM
  #570
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If we agree that anyone can bust then why not take the guy who we can't reasonably draft next year with our 1st? Good scoring/checking centers/wingers with size are often found higher than 7th in a draft. At 7 you still have a chance of getting a star player if the draft is deep. Lindholm could be a star. He put up very impressive numbers in the SEL for a draft eligible player.

bergeron -2nd round
backes - 2nd round
brown - late 1st
m. richards - late 1st
callahan - 4th round
doan - top 10 pick

Subjective doesn't mean we have no idea and every opinion is equal. In general NHL scouts consistently rank Lindholm well above guys like Lazar and Horvat. I will listen to them. Did you notice that it's the teams that try to prove they are smarter than everyone else that draft the worst? We lived through it a lot in the early 2000s. Lowe and Prendergast decided they knew more than everyone else and that Zach wasn't that much better than Marc. Or when they took a little known Jesse N, because they "knew another team liked him and he wouldn't last til their next pick". I don't want to see that kind of mentality creep back in. Just take the consensus bpa when drafting high.
I'm not trying to advocate in taking Lazar or Horvat above a Monahan or Lindholm here, I'm just trying to point out that if we want to address our lack of depth in center, Horvat and Lazar are still great prospects to fill that role. We are not looking for a #1C, we are looking for a #2 who brings elements to the game that we sorely lack. Some of you act like reaching 4-7 spots to address a big need would be a travesty.

You think any of those guys now would go outside the top 10 or 15 if there was a redraft? Who was the real BPA available then? My guess is all 30 teams look to address that in later rounds but it doesn't look so easy when you only got really 6-8 marquee names making that impact. The safer the pick, the better imo when trying to address the team needs of the Oilers.

Those 6 guys I find good comparables for Lazar and Horvat. Funny how those guys turn out to be team captains and really make their impact in the playoffs. Remember, not trying to say these guys are better then Lindholm but do you really want to keep trying to find these guys in rounds 2-4? How's that going for us or for many teams in that matter.

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Aside from HF Board chatter, does this have any legs. Have not heard it from anywhere else and I doubt it's true.
I also remember Stauffer talking to Stu earlier in the year when Lazar was dropping out of the top 20 in rankings and Stu making the notion that any team following those rankings would be missing out on a special player and he was still making it seem like Lazar was a top 10 or 15 talent. FWIW

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05-24-2013, 10:03 AM
  #571
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Re the comments on faceoffs, I get that it's not the be-all, end-all, yet I look at players like Datsyuk, Bergeron, Richards, Thornton, etc., and teams that have overall great faceoff stats (Boston, LA, SJ), and to me it's an advantage overall.

If Lindholm was 58% last year that's pretty great considering he was playing against men.

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05-24-2013, 10:04 AM
  #572
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Re the comments on faceoffs, I get that it's not the be-all, end-all, yet I look at players like Datsyuk, Bergeron, Richards, Thornton, etc., and teams that have overall great faceoff stats (Boston, LA, SJ), and to me it's an advantage overall.

If Lindholm was 58% last year that's pretty great considering he was playing against men.
Hmm, I wonder if the Oilers aren't talking up this kid for a reason.

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05-24-2013, 10:09 AM
  #573
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I think MacT's comments yesterday were a smokescreen for Elias Lindholm.

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05-24-2013, 10:28 AM
  #574
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I think MacT's comments yesterday were a smokescreen for Elias Lindholm.
It boggles the mind that Mac T wouldn't at least be considering him. I agree that it could very well be a smokescreen.

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05-24-2013, 10:45 AM
  #575
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It boggles the mind that Mac T wouldn't at least be considering him. I agree that it could very well be a smokescreen.
I am really hoping this is the case. Stauffer's list with Lazar and Horvat ahead of Lindholm scared me.

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