HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

2013 Draft Thread: "Shoo-in for Nichushkin"

View Poll Results: Draft goes Jones/Mackinnon/Drouin/Barkov/Nichushkin/Nurse. Who should they take?
Monahan 138 73.02%
Lindholm 51 26.98%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-24-2013, 12:25 PM
  #601
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
13. Radek Faksa
14. Zemgus Girgensons
20. Scott Laughton
26. Brendan Gaunce

Name one player in 2012 from 15-30 that compares to Lindholm.
No one with that SEL point production with that kind of 2-way ability and "hockey sense" ever goes that late

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:26 PM
  #602
CornKicker
Locked Out
 
CornKicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,424
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
None of those are like Lazar. Sorry.
i would disagree about Faska but the other 3 are easily comparable to Lazar imo

14. Zemgus Girgensons
20. Scott Laughton
26. Brendan Gaunce

CornKicker is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:27 PM
  #603
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
You guys sure are underrating Horvat and Lazar. These guys would be top 10 picks in most other years and may actually be top 10 picks this year.

They are both sure-fire NHLers. The only question is if they are 3rd liners or better. When the success rate for 1st rd picks is 65% - getting a sure thing should be appealing to most fans. Combine that with all the things these two would bring (that help teams win) and we should be happy getting one of them.

Most of you have been asking for players like these and blame our current lack of success on not having them and want to pay through the nose for players like them (Backes for example) but drafting our own Backes/Bergeron/Brown/Doan/M. Richards type player would be end of the world?

If Monahan is gone I have no problem getting one of Horvat or Lazar
I wouldn't either, as long as we trade down to 13-18 range and pick up a valuable asset in the process.

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:33 PM
  #604
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
And Lazar really does look like Brown/M. Richards.

IATL maybe you want to weigh in here with your thoughts on Lazar and type of player u think he is?
1) Patrice Bergeron: 6'2, 195lb; Bo Horvat: 6', 198lb. You'll be surprised what that extra height does for you at the NHL level, irregardless of weight (eg. Malkin vs Gagner)

2) Bergeron: >point/game in his draft year, played in NHL as an 18-year old. In your mind is Horvat at that level yet? He's looked solid at the Memorial Cup but I'm not buying that hes an NHL player yet. Stylistically there are some comparisons to Bergeron but I don't see the offensive potential for instant production from him, especially given the solid players he's playing with (Max Domi, etc)

3) Dustin Brown: 76p in 58gp in his draft year
Mike Richards: 87p in 67gp in his draft year
Curtis Lazar: 61p in 72gp in his draft year

Am I the only one who sees the difference? Build-wise obviously Lazar is very similar to both of these players. Strong compact frame that's allowed him to be a pseudo-power force in the WHL. I can't say if it will translate into NHL success. But he's got the speed and shot to likely produce at the NHL level. I just don't see the overall offensive package from him to reach that Brown/Richards level.

One of the reasons why Brown/Richards are so valuable is that irregardless of a defense-first system, in which their 2-way play makes them shine, they have that elite-level offensive ability that allows them to continually produce within the system. I don't think Lazar's offensive contributions will be at that level, and I think he finds a middle-ground between Richards and Stoll in such a system rather than producing like a Mike Richards.

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:34 PM
  #605
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
i would disagree about Faska but the other 3 are easily comparable to Lazar imo

14. Zemgus Girgensons
20. Scott Laughton
26. Brendan Gaunce
In his case, almost exactly.

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:36 PM
  #606
BarDownBobo
Registered User
 
BarDownBobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Yak City
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
i would disagree about Faska but the other 3 are easily comparable to Lazar imo

14. Zemgus Girgensons
20. Scott Laughton
26. Brendan Gaunce
To further this:

2011:
15. JT Miller

2010:
18. Austin Watson
21. Riley Sheahan
28. Charlie Coyle

2009:
20. Jacob Josefson
24. Marcus Johansen
33. Ryan O'Reilly

All similar to Lazar IMO.

BarDownBobo is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:37 PM
  #607
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,256
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Do you really expect this year's pick to jump in and fill a hole?
He will fill the hole sooner than picking him next year or not at all.

Quote:
And when did you start wanting to draft for current need over bpa?
When I got sick of watching this team and all their "offensive superstar" high "bpa" picks flounder at the bottom of the standings four a fourth year in a row. This team needs balance, not another flashy offensive forward. We have enough of those already. Its time to address some glaring areas of need.

You shouldnt put too much stock into the "services" and their lists.

According to them Forsberg should have gone third overall, not 11th where he was actually picked. By that metric 8 teams passed over the bpa.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:42 PM
  #608
Musashi
Registered User
 
Musashi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Really? I know their style of play in an amateur junior league is conducive to that thought, but what about their draft year numbers projects these guys as "excellent 2C's" to you? Neither are point/game. Horvat IMO is more impressive than Lazar with his offensive abilities. But neither have that 6'2-6'3 frame that all the elite 2-way C's (other than the exceptions that are Datsyuk/Zetterberg - you're very unlikely to be getting that kind of strength in players you draft in this draft) like Kesler/Backes/Bergeron have. They're undersized. May not be a problem in the CHL - hell it wasn't for Gagner in his draft year either - but it could pose an issue in the NHL.

I think there's a 50/50 chance these guys end up as either a 2C or a 3C.
I just believe in their work ethic on the ice, two way game with their strength and build, and I do think these guys have offensive upside good enough to compliment their linemates and be a 2nd line center. I also believe offensive upside isn't the #1 priority for what we are looking at with a 2C.

We are in a unique situation with 3 first overall picks that no other team has sucked enough to get. Guys like Horvat and Lazar have a good chance at being on a line with one of those players and I believe the other facets that come with their game will be more beneficial on a line with highly skilled wingers, then just say a player like gagner who really only brings an offensive skill set and game. Especially down the middle.

Musashi is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:43 PM
  #609
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,256
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=128062



Similar style, similar point production.
Hell, he even got some time up with the big club last year and didn't actually look too bad from what I remember.
Lazar scored 38 goals in his draft year. Leading a stacked Oil Kings team. Laughton had 21. Lazar also outweighs him by 30lbs. Can Laughton skate or shoot like Lazar?

You better stay in the shallow end.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:49 PM
  #610
CupofOil
Registered User
 
CupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rock Bottom
Country: United States
Posts: 13,648
vCash: 500
I like Lazar, i really do but you can't possibly justify taking him over Lindholm if Lindholm somehow drops to 7.

You can talk about Lazar filling a need and what not but so does Lindholm. It's not like Lindholm is a small, soft Euro. He plays well in all zones in a men's league, hits a lot and also happens to have a lot of offensive upside and from what i've seen of him (about 5 WJC games), he's incredibly strong on the puck (probably stronger on the puck than anybody in our top 6), almost Forsberg-like in that respect so if they pass on him for Lazar or Horvat, i'll be disappointed to say the least.
Also, it's not like size is that much of an issue because he's really not that much smaller than Lazar and Horvat.

At the very least, if MacT is so intent on taking Lazar or Horvat, trade down gain an asset and take one of them in the 10-13 range. I'm sure that the #7 pick would have tons of value if Lindholm or Nichushkin are on the board.
I just can't imagine that he would be stupid enough to take one of them at 7.

CupofOil is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:50 PM
  #611
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He will fill the hole sooner than picking him next year or not at all.



When I got sick of watching this team and all their "offensive superstar" high "bpa" picks flounder at the bottom of the standings four a fourth year in a row. This team needs balance, not another flashy offensive forward. We have enough of those already. Its time to address some glaring areas of need.

You shouldnt put too much stock into the "services" and their lists.

According to them Forsberg should have gone third overall, not 11th where he was actually picked. By that metric 8 teams passed over the bpa.
An 18-year-old is not bringing "balance" to this team.

The GM actually needs to do his job and bring in veteran players to fill those types of roles.

BPA is still IMO the most sound way to go about picking in the top 10 almost always. I think in the second round is where you can pick more based on need.

But the fact is, every player that looks to be available at the no.7 pick -- Monahan, Nischukshin, Lindholm, Nurse, etc. all looks to fill a large need on this team.

Even in Lindholm's case, he's not as big as Monahan, but he looks like a beast in the face off dot, likes to play in the corners, and has a high skill level and is a very good skater at the center position.

We have absolutely no one like that on our team or in our system. Just because a player like Lindholm is touted for having a high skill level shouldn't be a knock on him because we apparently "have too much skill". The Flames scored more goals than us.


Last edited by Soundwave: 05-24-2013 at 12:56 PM.
Soundwave is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:52 PM
  #612
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,730
vCash: 1026
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Lazar scored 38 goals in his draft year. Leading a stacked Oil Kings team. Laughton had 21. Lazar also outweighs him by 30lbs. Can Laughton skate or shoot like Lazar?

You better stay in the shallow end.
That's just cherry picking stats. You could just as easily say how Laughton is taller, had much more assists, and a much higher PPG in the playoffs. I'm not saying Laughton is better, but you seem to only ever bring up anything that could help you make Lazar look like the best player in the draft

__________________
"The Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it" - dnicks17

Last edited by The Nuge: 05-24-2013 at 12:58 PM.
The Nuge is online now  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:54 PM
  #613
dustrock
Too Legit To Quit
 
dustrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,800
vCash: 500
I don't really get how Lindholm doesn't fill a need.

If he didn't have a rep of being a guy who will take faceoffs, won't shy away from physical play, and was more of a stereotypical "Euro" center, then fine, take Horvat or Lazar if Monahan's gone, but I think the reason many people actually prefer Lindholm over Monahan is that he can probably do many of the things Monahan can do for the Oilers but also be a bigger contributer on offence.

I really wouldn't be shocked if the Oilers made a play to get a mid-first to try to grab Lazar/Horvat/Gauthier anyway. Why not get 2 great center prospects, assuming that surely one of them would work out?

dustrock is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:56 PM
  #614
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,150
vCash: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Really? I know their style of play in an amateur junior league is conducive to that thought, but what about their draft year numbers projects these guys as "excellent 2C's" to you? Neither are point/game. Horvat IMO is more impressive than Lazar with his offensive abilities. But neither have that 6'2-6'3 frame that all the elite 2-way C's (other than the exceptions that are Datsyuk/Zetterberg - you're very unlikely to be getting that kind of strength in players you draft in this draft) like Kesler/Backes/Bergeron have. They're undersized. May not be a problem in the CHL - hell it wasn't for Gagner in his draft year either - but it could pose an issue in the NHL.

I think there's a 50/50 chance these guys end up as either a 2C or a 3C.
Horvat is 6' and 203 lbs, he's built like a tank for a recently turned 18 year old. He's also put up over a PPG in this years playoffs. Definitely a top 10 prospect this year, probably top 5 in a weaker draft.

raab is online now  
Old
05-24-2013, 12:58 PM
  #615
Soundwave
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 24,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
I don't really get how Lindholm doesn't fill a need.

If he didn't have a rep of being a guy who will take faceoffs, won't shy away from physical play, and was more of a stereotypical "Euro" center, then fine, take Horvat or Lazar if Monahan's gone, but I think the reason many people actually prefer Lindholm over Monahan is that he can probably do many of the things Monahan can do for the Oilers but also be a bigger contributer on offence.

I really wouldn't be shocked if the Oilers made a play to get a mid-first to try to grab Lazar/Horvat/Gauthier anyway. Why not get 2 great center prospects, assuming that surely one of them would work out?
Lindholm absolutely fills a lot of needs for the Oilers. He may very well be the best face off center in the draft this year for one. 58% in the dot against grown men IMO trumps even Monahan who's a big kid winning draws against a lot of smaller kids in junior.

He'd also make Gagner expendable in time which would then fill another need presumably.


Last edited by Soundwave: 05-24-2013 at 01:03 PM.
Soundwave is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:03 PM
  #616
The Perfect Human*
Bow Down to Lidas
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,712
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
That's just cherry picking stats. You could just as easily say how Laughton is taller, had much more assists, and a much higher PPG in the playoffs. I'm not saying Laughton is better, but you seem to only ever bring up anything that could help you make Lazar look like the best player in the draft
My favorite part was "30lb". If we go with hockeydb #'s it's about 12lb. Who knows how those numbers changed over the past season

The Perfect Human* is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:04 PM
  #617
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,150
vCash: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I like Lazar, i really do but you can't possibly justify taking him over Lindholm if Lindholm somehow drops to 7.

You can talk about Lazar filling a need and what not but so does Lindholm. It's not like Lindholm is a small, soft Euro. He plays well in all zones in a men's league, hits a lot and also happens to have a lot of offensive upside and from what i've seen of him (about 5 WJC games), he's incredibly strong on the puck (probably stronger on the puck than anybody in our top 6), almost Forsberg-like in that respect so if they pass on him for Lazar or Horvat, i'll be disappointed to say the least.
Also, it's not like size is that much of an issue because he's really not that much smaller than Lazar and Horvat.

At the very least, if MacT is so intent on taking Lazar or Horvat, trade down gain an asset and take one of them in the 10-13 range. I'm sure that the #7 pick would have tons of value if Lindholm or Nichushkin are on the board.
I just can't imagine that he would be stupid enough to take one of them at 7.
I can almost guarantee Horvat won't be there at 10 given his playoff performance and intangibles.

raab is online now  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:12 PM
  #618
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,150
vCash: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
In his case, almost exactly.
I don't know a lot about Lindholm, but how is his willingness to go to the net and battle? We need more guys who just charge the net and give 110% to bang away at rebounds. If he's another perimeter guy we don't need him.

raab is online now  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:14 PM
  #619
DousedInOil
Registered User
 
DousedInOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Katy <3
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
When I got sick of watching this team and all their "offensive superstar" high "bpa" picks flounder at the bottom of the standings four a fourth year in a row. This team needs balance, not another flashy offensive forward. We have enough of those already. Its time to address some glaring areas of need.
Since when are Monahan and Lindholm considered flashy offensive players? They are both complete two way players that fill our second line center hole perfectly. In not going to convince you otherwise but please watch some other players before you start comparing them. Lazar is a terrific prospect but he is in an incredibly deep draft. In other years he would be a top 10 pick easy.

DousedInOil is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:15 PM
  #620
17Kurri
Registered User
 
17Kurri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
That's just cherry picking stats. You could just as easily say how Laughton is taller, had much more assists, and a much higher PPG in the playoffs. I'm not saying Laughton is better, but you seem to only ever bring up anything that could help you make Lazar look like the best player in the draft
Oh, come on, everybody on here does that to one extent or another to boost the perception of their own favourite prospect(s). Heck, there's one nut around here who's trying to pass off Pulock as the best D prospect around.

Reality is that we all have our own opinions and they're bound to differ. Personally, I'm with IATL on Lazar, but won't have any problem with whoever the Oilers draft.

17Kurri is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:17 PM
  #621
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,256
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
That's just cherry picking stats. You could just as easily say how Laughton is taller, had much more assists, and a much higher PPG in the playoffs. I'm not saying Laughton is better, but you seem to only ever bring up anything that could help you make Lazar look like the best player in the draft
Twice as many goals in his draft year is cherry picking stats?

I think Im done here.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:19 PM
  #622
CupofOil
Registered User
 
CupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rock Bottom
Country: United States
Posts: 13,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
I can almost guarantee Horvat won't be there at 10 given his playoff performance and intangibles.
Almost guarantee? That's pretty bold considering the fact that the draft from about 8-20 is a total crapshoot. Sure, it's possible since he is a late riser and has the 2 way game that many teams covet but almost guarantee? I don't know about that and if he does get taken by then, the Oilers will take Lazar unless you think that he'll also be a top 10 selection.
I can almost guarantee that passing on Lindholm at 7 for players that they can get further back without trading down is a mistake. I would love either Horvat or Lazar for the Oilers but trade down please, that's all i ask.


Last edited by CupofOil: 05-24-2013 at 01:34 PM.
CupofOil is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:20 PM
  #623
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,256
vCash: 8345
Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Since when are Monahan and Lindholm considered flashy offensive players? They are both complete two way players that fill our second line center hole perfectly. In not going to convince you otherwise but please watch some other players before you start comparing them. Lazar is a terrific prospect but he is in an incredibly deep draft. In other years he would be a top 10 pick easy.
This is laughable.

Most of the posters in here commenting about how stupid it would be to take Lazar at #7 have never or rarely seen the guy play. Or Lindholm, or Monahan for that matter.

I am the Liquor is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:24 PM
  #624
17Kurri
Registered User
 
17Kurri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
This is laughable.

Most of the posters in here commenting about how stupid it would be to take Lazar at #7 have never or rarely seen the guy play. Or Lindholm, or Monahan for that matter.
No, but they've read scouting reports and, of course, that makes all the difference in the world!

17Kurri is offline  
Old
05-24-2013, 01:25 PM
  #625
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,728
vCash: 500
As far as I'm concerned we should be walking out of this draft with a player that fits really well on this team. Whether it's Monahan, Lindholm, Lazar, Horvat, or even Domi, there is a lot to choose from. Personally I'd love to trade up and get the guy that we like most, but if not I'm not going to shed a tear if we draft any of the above guys. They all have their +'s and -'s but they are all solid prospects.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.