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2013 Draft Thread: "Shoo-in for Nichushkin"

View Poll Results: Draft goes Jones/Mackinnon/Drouin/Barkov/Nichushkin/Nurse. Who should they take?
Monahan 138 73.02%
Lindholm 51 26.98%
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05-27-2013, 07:02 PM
  #876
Bank Shot
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Marincin and Gernat are credited to European scouts despite being WHL'ers at the time of the draft. There may be others, I didn't look closely.
no. they were drafted out of europe then came to the whl.

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05-27-2013, 07:02 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I'm not so sure about that. A lot of scouts are saying that Nichushkin is the most talented player in this draft, its his KHL status that is scaring people off. Nobody is saying the same about Barkov skill set.
I don't think anyone is discounting Nichuskins skill it's just does he bring it every shift and how is his two way play. Another argument against him is his ability to finish which some say is an issue. But he has massive potential his speed size and power seem to be unmatched in this draft. He is another guy who is closer to a boom or bust than a guy like Barkov who seems at least more known. For Nichushkin are you getting a Nash, Lucic, or Malkin type or A faster version of Penney who can finish. I like Nichushkin, and I would take the risk if he fell. Just when comparing him to Barkov, Barkov has more polish, defensive and a better IQ. Potential I think Nichsuhkin takes it it's just Barkov is more likley to achieve his.

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05-27-2013, 07:07 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
no. they were drafted out of europe then came to the whl.
So they were. My bad.

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05-27-2013, 07:45 PM
  #879
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Is anyone interested in trading down or adding another mid 1st round pick for Zach Fucale?

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05-27-2013, 08:34 PM
  #880
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Personally, i wouldn't be opposed to doing a Mike Ditka. Call up Tallon and offer him every one of our picks this year for #2 - for either Jones or Mackinnon.

Chances of top 2 picks being impact NHLers, let alone career NHLers is what? 90%? Chances of 2nd rounders and beyond being elite payer is maybe 5%? 20% shot at even making it and sticking?

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05-27-2013, 08:35 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Oilerfan93 View Post
Is anyone interested in trading down or adding another mid 1st round pick for Zach Fucale?
No way. We need to use this pick for a near guarantee impact player in the draft, or trade it for someone who can help us now. I'd be all ears to using our 2 2nds to move up for him though.

I'm a big no to using a top 20 pick to draft a tender, especially if it is your first pick in the draft.

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05-27-2013, 08:38 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Personally, i wouldn't be opposed to doing a Mike Ditka. Call up Tallon and offer him every one of our picks this year for #2 - for either Jones or Mackinnon.

Chances of top 2 picks being impact NHLers, let alone career NHLers is what? 90%? Chances of 2nd rounders and beyond being elite payer is maybe 5%? 20% shot at even making it and sticking?
I'd do it in a heartbeat. I can only imagine the terror that a Hall-Mackinnon-Yakupov line would bring to defenders. (that said I would very likely have Hall and Mack on opposite lines)

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05-27-2013, 08:45 PM
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Personally, i wouldn't be opposed to doing a Mike Ditka. Call up Tallon and offer him every one of our picks this year for #2 - for either Jones or Mackinnon.

Chances of top 2 picks being impact NHLers, let alone career NHLers is what? 90%? Chances of 2nd rounders and beyond being elite payer is maybe 5%? 20% shot at even making it and sticking?
There's no way Florida should take that, especially with the prospect depth they have. Plus with the deep draft this year, we stand a good chance at picking up a lot of good talent.

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05-27-2013, 09:18 PM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Personally, i wouldn't be opposed to doing a Mike Ditka. Call up Tallon and offer him every one of our picks this year for #2 - for either Jones or Mackinnon.

Chances of top 2 picks being impact NHLers, let alone career NHLers is what? 90%? Chances of 2nd rounders and beyond being elite payer is maybe 5%? 20% shot at even making it and sticking?
Picks in the NHL don't hold the same value as NFL picks. A first through third round is basically a sure fire player in the NFL, it doesn't really turn into a crap shoot until the fifth round. In the NHL, everything after the late first is a crap shoot.

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05-27-2013, 09:26 PM
  #885
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if we traded the 7th overall pick for a roster player,
1.who do you think we could get? kopitar quality?
2.would you be happy passing on a monahan for that player?

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05-27-2013, 09:47 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by titsuple View Post
if we traded the 7th overall pick for a roster player,
1.who do you think we could get? kopitar quality?
2.would you be happy passing on a monahan for that player?
Kopitar?Maybe if we threw in Eberle..

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05-27-2013, 09:48 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
Personally, i wouldn't be opposed to doing a Mike Ditka. Call up Tallon and offer him every one of our picks this year for #2 - for either Jones or Mackinnon.

Chances of top 2 picks being impact NHLers, let alone career NHLers is what? 90%? Chances of 2nd rounders and beyond being elite payer is maybe 5%? 20% shot at even making it and sticking?
I'd do it before I could blink

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05-27-2013, 10:01 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Picks in the NHL don't hold the same value as NFL picks. A first through third round is basically a sure fire player in the NFL, it doesn't really turn into a crap shoot until the fifth round. In the NHL, everything after the late first is a crap shoot.
Yep, which is why they'd probably reject such a proposal. It would take something very significant to move up from 7th, even though we can get a pretty high quality player here. It's just a matter of the top picks being such locks

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05-27-2013, 10:05 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I'm not so sure about that. A lot of scouts are saying that Nichushkin is the most talented player in this draft, its his KHL status that is scaring people off. Nobody is saying the same about Barkov skill set.
That's also a very common refrain with Russian prospects, but the fact is, history would tell you that if a Russian player was really the most talented in the draft, teams will take him first (Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Yakupov, Malkin). The reason teams aren't considering him with a top 3 pick is because he's not at the level of the top 3 in this draft.

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05-27-2013, 11:17 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by titsuple View Post
if we traded the 7th overall pick for a roster player,
1.who do you think we could get? kopitar quality?
2.would you be happy passing on a monahan for that player?
Lol, you just so casually threw that in there? A top-10 center in the league? Haha

I don't think LAK would move him for the 1st overall pick.

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05-27-2013, 11:25 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Oilerfan93 View Post
Is anyone interested in trading down or adding another mid 1st round pick for Zach Fucale?
I wouldn't touch him with our first 2nd round pick so I definitely wouldn't trade up to get him. Impact goalies have been found in the later rounds far more often then you get impact forwards or d out of the later rounds it seems like a waste to use high end picks on them, unless you are totally convinced the goalie in question has franchise goalie potential. I think I only watched him play 7 times, but I can't say I thought he was amazing just a really good junior goalie he seems to be a clear step below goalies I really liked who went high in recent years like John Gibson and Vasilevski who I've seen just stonewall teams at times. I'd prefer to spend Katz's money for him and just get a good goalie scout to scout the professional leagues in Europe and then when the time comes just send the best goalie a wheelbarrel full of cash to come play for us rather than commit a draft pick (assets) needlessly, if we had signed Fasth to back-up Dubnyk I don't think anyone would be concerned about our goaltending right now.

If we trade up I'd like to get someone who fills more of a need, If Lazar falls to the 20 range like some lists have him(he shouldn't) I would definitely trade up for him, and for more realistic options like Erne (only seen Erne play twice but based on draft profile is a physical power forward) or Hartman (buzz saw hits everything) would both be good options that fill more pressing needs and would likely have a shorter turn around to make the big team then would Fucale.

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05-28-2013, 12:07 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by SterlingArcher View Post
I don't think anyone is discounting Nichuskins skill it's just does he bring it every shift and how is his two way play. Another argument against him is his ability to finish which some say is an issue. But he has massive potential his speed size and power seem to be unmatched in this draft. He is another guy who is closer to a boom or bust than a guy like Barkov who seems at least more known. For Nichushkin are you getting a Nash, Lucic, or Malkin type or A faster version of Penney who can finish. I like Nichushkin, and I would take the risk if he fell. Just when comparing him to Barkov, Barkov has more polish, defensive and a better IQ. Potential I think Nichsuhkin takes it it's just Barkov is more likley to achieve his.
Faster, more competitive Penner would be a beast. I would not be surprised if Nashville or Carolina would take Nichushkin over Monahan or Lindhold on account of his offensive potential.

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05-28-2013, 12:13 AM
  #893
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I agree with those that wouldn't use a 1st this year on a goalie. If they traded up for another pick in the 1st round, a forward or D should be the target... depending somewhat on who they chose at #7 (and who is left on board as BPA)... but picking a goalie with that hypothetical extra 1st seems like a poor use of a good asset.

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05-28-2013, 12:20 AM
  #894
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Faster, more competitive Penner would be a beast. I would not be surprised if Nashville or Carolina would take Nichushkin over Monahan or Lindhold on account of his offensive potential.

No kidding. Nichushkin has a very high ceiling. He looks somewhat raw yet (not surprising for a 17 year old) but you can't teach speed or size or drive and he appears to have all 3.

If he was more polished with better playmaking, better 2-way game etc... he'd be an absolute beast and he'd be up there with the likes of Lindros as a probable generational talent. He's not though which is why he'll go top 7 instead of a clear #1.

If the Oilers pick at #7 and the likes of Barkov/Monahan/Lindholm are all gone... to me Nichuskin is the obvious choice and if the Oilers didn't need so much help at C, I'd seriously lean towards picking him over all those 3.

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05-28-2013, 01:56 AM
  #895
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Of the Predators inability to build a competitive roster? I'd assume so by now.
Man, I hate comments like this. It's such a scuzzy thing to say. I hope one day that all Oilers fans, after getting so much negative, stereotypical and downright stupid press, will be more cautious about throwing around superficial and presumptuous judgments. A man can dream, I guess.

Anyway, here's why I think your comment is awful and wrong:

Firstly, the Predators have been fantastically competitive. To say that they haven't been competitive is flat-out wrong. That's like saying the Flyers haven't been competitive. They fight like hell. They make the playoffs fairly consistently. They're a serious threat to do damage when they do make them. Their management is incredibly aggressive in the trade and free agent markets. Their coaching is 2nd to none. Their scouting and prospect development is solid. They are one of the better run franchises in the league and they are, above all things, competitive.

Secondly, the Predators likely cannot trade Shea Weber. To do so could have enormous, franchise-crippling repercussions as a result of the new CBA. Even if it gets to the point where Weber says he'd rather retire than play another minute in Nashville, they may have to call his bluff. The reason for this is the cap penalty they would get if he retires before the end of his contract. If they trade Weber as soon as possible, and he happened to retire 1 season before the end of the contract, the Predators would get stuck with a cap penalty of $7 million dollars (maybe even more, depending on how the bonuses are treated in this provision).

If they keep him longer than that - let's say for one more season - the penalty can become even more punitive. If they trade Weber, say, 5 years into his deal, they could conceivably face a 1 year penalty down the road in excess of $30 million dollars in dead cap!!

So, the Predators could trade Weber this summer. They would risk a down the road penalty of $7 million dollars and have to deal with an outraged and crushed fan-base (in a market that is still relatively precarious). Oh, and it would also mean they have spent $28 million dollars for what amounts to 48 games of Weber. If they fail to bite the bullet and do that, they risk massive, crippling cap penalties down the road.

The only way to escape those penalties is to keep Weber long enough that he is wearing a Nashville jersey in the years his cap hit is higher than his salary (2018-2025).

So even if we accept your absurd and wrong-minded analysis of Nashville as an uncompetitive franchise that star players are scrambling to leave, it is still largely senseless for Nashville to trade Weber. Even if Weber goes full-Pronger (which he has given absolutely no indication he will), he is likely a Predator for the duration of his career.

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05-28-2013, 02:26 AM
  #896
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
No kidding. Nichushkin has a very high ceiling. He looks somewhat raw yet (not surprising for a 17 year old) but you can't teach speed or size or drive and he appears to have all 3.

If he was more polished with better playmaking, better 2-way game etc... he'd be an absolute beast and he'd be up there with the likes of Lindros as a probable generational talent. He's not though which is why he'll go top 7 instead of a clear #1.

If the Oilers pick at #7 and the likes of Barkov/Monahan/Lindholm are all gone... to me Nichuskin is the obvious choice and if the Oilers didn't need so much help at C, I'd seriously lean towards picking him over all those 3.
I see Nichushkin getting criminally overrated on here a lot, but bringing up him and Lindros in the same sentence? You've taken it to the next level haha.

I see a faster Troy Brouwer in him.

He doesn't have the passing/vision or shot to do much away from the net. He'll make his living crashing the net and buzzing around the net.

A solid complementary player.

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05-28-2013, 03:59 AM
  #897
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That's also a very common refrain with Russian prospects, but the fact is, history would tell you that if a Russian player was really the most talented in the draft, teams will take him first (Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Yakupov, Malkin). The reason teams aren't considering him with a top 3 pick is because he's not at the level of the top 3 in this draft.
The KHL wasn't a legit threat at that point, since then only Nail (who was playing in the OHL for 2 seasons) was taken 1st overall. A guy like Tarasenko could be a top 5 talent in his draft yet he was taken 16th for example. Comparing a Russian still playing in Russia with a Russian that came over pre-draft IMO isn't apples and apples. That said this draft is not short on top end talent so if a team worries about "the Russian factor" there are many other high quality players to draft in the top 5.

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05-28-2013, 04:07 AM
  #898
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I see Nichushkin getting criminally overrated on here a lot, but bringing up him and Lindros in the same sentence? You've taken it to the next level haha.

I see a faster Troy Brouwer in him.

He doesn't have the passing/vision or shot to do much away from the net. He'll make his living crashing the net and buzzing around the net.

A solid complementary player.
I agree 100%.

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05-28-2013, 05:33 AM
  #899
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If I'm the Avs, I'm talking to Buffalo and looking to make a swap of O'Reilly for R. Miller. Varlamov would go the other way and one of Buffalo's d goes to the Avs. Possibly Sekera.

Would help both teams.

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05-28-2013, 05:57 AM
  #900
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There's no way Florida should take that, especially with the prospect depth they have. Plus with the deep draft this year, we stand a good chance at picking up a lot of good talent.
Oh probably not. If we had the 1st or 2nd overall pick, I wouldn't trade it for a grab bag of junk, but these things have happened before.

1993: Whalers traded #6 and Makarov to the Sharks to move to 2nd where they selected Chris Pronger

1998: Preds moved from 3 to 2, adding a late 1st (29th)

1999: Burke moved Bryan McCabe and a 1st (2000) for 3rd overall, which allowed him to draft the Sedin twins.

2001: We'll asterisk this one as it was Milbury, but Yashin for Chara and 2nd overall (Spezza). LOL.

2003: Florida traded 1st overall and a 3rd to Pittsburgh for 3rd overall and a 2nd round pick.

Every year we love to talk about various options of trading up, trading down, getting another early 1st, but nothing ever happens. It's just fun to spitball ideas.

As for what I suggested - if all of this year's picks are not enough, I would even add to that for 1st or 2nd overall. One of next year's picks, a prospect, a roster player? Whatever. For Mackinnon or Jones, I would give up a lot. Other than those 2, would still give up something to get Barkov, but not nearly as much. As GM I would certainly be calling Tallon and Sherman to at least see if anything interests them.

Hell, maybe you call Sherman and he says not a chance he'd trade that pick, but Duchene could be available for #7++

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