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Roster/Trade/Etc Discussion Part VII

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05-23-2013, 11:21 PM
  #251
IDuck
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You're mistaken. Etem would not have been eligible to play in the AHL if he just turned 20, because he came from the CHL. He is, in fact, about to turn 21(June 16th).
you are in fact correct, i thought it was june, which is why i though he just turned 20....still impressive IMO for the skill set at the NHL level (which is what i was getting at), and not being a lottery pick

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05-23-2013, 11:23 PM
  #252
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you are in fact correct, i thought it was june, which is why i though he just turned 20....still impressive IMO for the skill set at the NHL level (which is what i was getting at), and not being a lottery pick
He was drafted the same year as Fowler. That will probably turn out to be second only to the 2003 draft, in terms of great 1st rounds for the Ducks.

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05-23-2013, 11:23 PM
  #253
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settle down....just like with habs fans, im sure "biggest need" would vary in opinion from fan to fan
Biggest need is a speedy winger. If we could get Etem and take on Ryan we would solve our top 6 issues immediately. We do have some pieces to ship off to you guys btw. Markov? Guy had 30 pts in 48 games this season. Pleks, I don't need to bring up stats he is as solid as a race horse.

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05-23-2013, 11:24 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Habsncabs2002 View Post
Biggest need is a speedy winger. If we could get Etem and take on Ryan we would solve our top 6 issues immediately. We do have some pieces to ship off to you guys btw. Markov? Guy had 30 pts in 48 games this season. Pleks, I don't need to bring up stats he is as solid as a race horse.
I don't think Etem can be had, unless you're willing to part with Galchenyuk.

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05-23-2013, 11:56 PM
  #255
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In a horrible year, he still produced at 60 point pace. He'd be an upgrade next season.

In 2 or 3 years? Maybe not
This. He can still put up some points, but to ignore this season would not be wise. His play has been really bad. When he is benched in the playoffs in round 2, in an elimination game, after playing mostly on the fourth line, that is something to be concerned with.

I would certainly give him a 1 year to see if he can bounce back, but not for 3 years. His play dropped off drastically in the defensive zone and we don't need to be stuck with bad salary if he doesn't return to form. I would rather stick with Bonino and see what we have Holland/Rakell.

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05-24-2013, 12:07 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Habsncabs2002 View Post
Biggest need is a speedy winger. If we could get Etem and take on Ryan we would solve our top 6 issues immediately. We do have some pieces to ship off to you guys btw. Markov? Guy had 30 pts in 48 games this season. Pleks, I don't need to bring up stats he is as solid as a race horse.
For the Ducks to lose two good wingers is a lot for a team that could see Selanne and Koivu retiring. In your scenario, the Ducks could lose Etem, Ryan, Koivu, and Selanne in one summer and replace them up front with Pleks.

Etem just had an great playoff performance, is a local kid, and is on his entry level contract; his asking price will be high. Adding to this is the fact that Ducks can stay under cap without trading either.

Ryan can certainly be had for the right price, but adding Etem seems unrealistic.

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05-24-2013, 12:35 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Habsncabs2002 View Post
Biggest need is a speedy winger. If we could get Etem and take on Ryan we would solve our top 6 issues immediately. We do have some pieces to ship off to you guys btw. Markov? Guy had 30 pts in 48 games this season. Pleks, I don't need to bring up stats he is as solid as a race horse.
Why don't you read my post on the last page which explains why the value is not good for Anaheim. We're not just going to give you guys Ryan and Etem because it solves your needs.

If you can't see why Anaheim isn't going to give you Ryan and Etem for Plekanec and Markov then you probably shouldn't be posting here.

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05-24-2013, 02:41 AM
  #258
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Don't know where to start , just a few quick points:
  1. Bob said he wants Koivu back
  2. Bonino established himself as the #3 center
  3. Holland will be here next season

This are the sure things to me. Brad Richards is a better player than Bonino but I'm not sure if he is the right fit. I was never a fan of his overall play. Offensivly he was absolutely great. But the style we play now, I'm not sure if he is the right one. Additionally, with Getzlaf, Richards and Bonino we may have the slowest centers combo in the league.

Also, I think the biggest need for this team is a permanent partner for Cam. With all our young forwards, we can compensate the offensive output but the hole next to Fowler worries me much more. One player that I think of some times lately is Karl Alzner. Defensive first player, good skater and Bruce knows him well. Unfortunately not very physical.


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05-24-2013, 02:53 AM
  #259
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Markov and Souray on the same team? I guess it would guarantee Sami and Hampus plenty of ice time.

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05-24-2013, 03:00 AM
  #260
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I'm not as sold as some people are that Holland is going to be Ducks property next season. I just have the feeling that this organization values Rakell ahead of Holland, and with Bonino basically sealing up the 2C job, he could be on his way out

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05-24-2013, 04:56 AM
  #261
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I'm not as sold as some people are that Holland is going to be Ducks property next season. I just have the feeling that this organization values Rakell ahead of Holland, and with Bonino basically sealing up the 2C job, he could be on his way out
Why? He develped nicely and Rakell will play in Norfolk. It's just to round out the game. Patience with the prospects is so important! I've said it seveal times, I'm not sure if Holland will end up as a center! I'd try him as a LW on the first line!

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05-24-2013, 10:10 AM
  #262
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I'm not as sold as some people are that Holland is going to be Ducks property next season. I just have the feeling that this organization values Rakell ahead of Holland, and with Bonino basically sealing up the 2C job, he could be on his way out
I could definitely see that too. Look at our logjam at center in the AHL. All pretty quality players, too. Although I don't think we will see him dealt, there's a chance he could be dealt for a winger or dman. He is only 22, but we also don't want to hold him back in the AHL. It will be interesting to see what happens with Holland in the next season or two

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05-24-2013, 10:29 AM
  #263
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I could definitely see that too. Look at our logjam at center in the AHL. All pretty quality players, too. Although I don't think we will see him dealt, there's a chance he could be dealt for a winger or dman. He is only 22, but we also don't want to hold him back in the AHL. It will be interesting to see what happens with Holland in the next season or two
BM will be in a tough spot when it comes to Holland. The kid still has some solid value right now, even though he hasn't proved anything in the NHL. Do you trade him in a deal to better yourself somewhere else? Or do you do nothing and hope he earns a roster spot on the team next season? Knowing that if he doesn't he will greatly hurt his value overall.

If I'm Murray and I want to really make changes like he claimed, I deal Holland in some sort of package deal to upgrade at another position. The Ducks have built some solid prospect depth up the middle to handle dealing Holland.

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05-24-2013, 02:55 PM
  #264
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BM will be in a tough spot when it comes to Holland. The kid still has some solid value right now, even though he hasn't proved anything in the NHL. Do you trade him in a deal to better yourself somewhere else? Or do you do nothing and hope he earns a roster spot on the team next season? Knowing that if he doesn't he will greatly hurt his value overall.

If I'm Murray and I want to really make changes like he claimed, I deal Holland in some sort of package deal to upgrade at another position. The Ducks have built some solid prospect depth up the middle to handle dealing Holland.
i really think dealing holland is a big mistake. bonino is still better suited imo as a perfect 3C once koivu retires. holland can be that great 2nd C that we need. His potential is just sky high, I really think we'd regret trading him unless we also got a fairly young already fairly established top-6 C back

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05-24-2013, 03:08 PM
  #265
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i really think dealing holland is a big mistake. bonino is still better suited imo as a perfect 3C once koivu retires. holland can be that great 2nd C that we need. His potential is just sky high, I really think we'd regret trading him unless we also got a fairly young already fairly established top-6 C back
Really?

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05-24-2013, 03:16 PM
  #266
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I also haven't given up on Holland becoming the Ducks 2nd line center. Getzlaf-Holland-Bonino-Steckel 2013-2014 Ducks centers.

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05-24-2013, 03:29 PM
  #267
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Really?
In terms of upside? Yeah, he's got a lot going for him. What he needs is some consistency.

It's been discussed before, but I'm not sure center is the right spot for him in the NHL. I'd like to see him on the wing. He's a bit like Jeff Carter, and I think of him more as a shooter than a setup guy. Putting him on the wing seems like a win-win for Anaheim.

To begin with, Anaheim's prospect depth at center has come a long way. Moving Holland to the wing opens up some space at pivot, while also improving Anaheim's depth on wing with one of their more talented forward prospects. It also gives Anaheim a versatile forward who, in a pinch, can step into the center role if the team has injuries. Finally, Holland has good size, and is talented enough that he could be a legitimate option with Getzlaf and Perry. If I'm Murray or Boudreau, I'd be thinking about that possibility.

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05-24-2013, 03:34 PM
  #268
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Certainly not ''sky high''

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05-24-2013, 03:42 PM
  #269
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Certainly not ''sky high''
I think he has as much talent as any of our forward prospects, so I have no issue with saying he has sky high potential. Skill is not an issue with Holland. Are we talking about an elite talent like Getzlaf? No, certainly not, but a potential 2nd line center or 1st line winger is definitely up there.

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05-24-2013, 04:01 PM
  #270
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I think he has as much talent as any of our forward prospects, so I have no issue with saying he has sky high potential. Skill is not an issue with Holland. Are we talking about an elite talent like Getzlaf? No, certainly not, but a potential 2nd line center or 1st line winger is definitely up there.
This is probably the only time I will agree. So yes I agree with you Holland has sky high potential for a top 6 role.

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05-24-2013, 04:04 PM
  #271
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I think he has as much talent as any of our forward prospects, so I have no issue with saying he has sky high potential. Skill is not an issue with Holland. Are we talking about an elite talent like Getzlaf? No, certainly not, but a potential 2nd line center or 1st line winger is definitely up there.
That is not ''sky high''. Ok, i would not like to argue about words. I also sometimes spell something a bit different than i actually thought (not sure that this is the case, though). Anyway...

... about Holland, i think he`s still 1-2 years away of being capable of playing 2nd line role. Thought about wing is a good idea, but i doubt the transition can happen as easy. Like Ryan, who played whole career as a winger, struggled to play in middle. Transition vice versa, theoritical could be easyer but i think it still pretty hard (idk, i`ve never been a pro hockey player).

If Koivu is back and Steckel is resigned, i think that would be a perfect situation - to let him stay in Norfolk more. From what we saw last year, we shouldn`t grant him a roster spot just like that, imo.

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05-24-2013, 04:28 PM
  #272
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That is not ''sky high''. Ok, i would not like to argue about words. I also sometimes spell something a bit different than i actually thought (not sure that this is the case, though). Anyway...

... about Holland, i think he`s still 1-2 years away of being capable of playing 2nd line role. Thought about wing is a good idea, but i doubt the transition can happen as easy. Like Ryan, who played whole career as a winger, struggled to play in middle. Transition vice versa, theoritical could be easyer but i think it still pretty hard (idk, i`ve never been a pro hockey player).

If Koivu is back and Steckel is resigned, i think that would be a perfect situation - to let him stay in Norfolk more. From what we saw last year, we shouldn`t grant him a roster spot just like that, imo.
Just going by numbers, the transition from center to wing is much easier than wing to center. If you look at draft lists, many current wings were drafted as centers. I believe Lupul was listed as a center. Kessel is another one.

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05-24-2013, 04:29 PM
  #273
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That is not ''sky high''. Ok, i would not like to argue about words. I also sometimes spell something a bit different than i actually thought (not sure that this is the case, though). Anyway...

... about Holland, i think he`s still 1-2 years away of being capable of playing 2nd line role. Thought about wing is a good idea, but i doubt the transition can happen as easy. Like Ryan, who played whole career as a winger, struggled to play in middle. Transition vice versa, theoritical could be easyer but i think it still pretty hard (idk, i`ve never been a pro hockey player).

If Koivu is back and Steckel is resigned, i think that would be a perfect situation - to let him stay in Norfolk more. From what we saw last year, we shouldn`t grant him a roster spot just like that, imo.
It's a lot easier for a center to transition to the wing than it is for a wing to transition to center, especially when said center has a skillset that may actually be better suited to the wing.

I guess we're going to agree to disagree on the term "sky high" because, the way I see it, for a prospect to have top six or higher potential, that is sky high potential. I'm not sure you fully appreciate how talented a player has to be to fall into that category. To be clear, so there are no mistakes and you understand where I'm coming from, I do not believe every team has six legitimate top six forwards. What most teams have are a few top six forwards, and a few that can adequately fill the role to some degree when necessary. So, for Holland to have legitimate top six upside, it's safe to say he's an extremely talented prospect.

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05-24-2013, 04:51 PM
  #274
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Holland to LW is a move that I would absolutely love. I really think he might be a fit with Getz and Pears moving forward. Top 6 of:

Holland-Getzlaf-Perry
Palms-*****/trade-Etem

Ryan moved for defense...I really like that potentially.

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05-24-2013, 07:25 PM
  #275
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Really?
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Certainly not ''sky high''
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
That is not ''sky high''. Ok, i would not like to argue about words. I also sometimes spell something a bit different than i actually thought (not sure that this is the case, though). Anyway...

... about Holland, i think he`s still 1-2 years away of being capable of playing 2nd line role. Thought about wing is a good idea, but i doubt the transition can happen as easy. Like Ryan, who played whole career as a winger, struggled to play in middle. Transition vice versa, theoritical could be easyer but i think it still pretty hard (idk, i`ve never been a pro hockey player).

If Koivu is back and Steckel is resigned, i think that would be a perfect situation - to let him stay in Norfolk more. From what we saw last year, we shouldn`t grant him a roster spot just like that, imo.
i guess we'll agree to disagree then.. im not saying he's a generational talent by saying his talent is sky high nor did i say hes like a stamkos/datsyuk/ etc. what I see his ceiling as if he puts everything together and is consistent is a 1st line player. i see him maybe putting up a PPG or close to a PPG in his best seasons if we use him properly. to me thats pretty damn good. sorta like what sojourn said, a jeff carter since he does have a wicked wrister.

hes got great size, good speed and hands and hes also got good IQ. he's not missing anything except for consistency, if he starts putting verything together for straight stretches he'd be to me a 1st line player.

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