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Tyler Bozak vs Mike Richards (Regular Season)

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05-28-2013, 11:24 PM
  #1
Stephen
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Tyler Bozak vs Mike Richards (Regular Season)

Before people jump all over me for this comparison, I don't mean to suggest that numbers tell the whole story, or that Tyler Bozak is close to being as good as this comparable, and there are clearly a lot of other "intangibles" at play. And I'm not even a huge fan myself.

This season:

Bozak 46 GP 12 G 16 A 28 PTS -1 20:18 Mins 52.6% FO
Richards 48 GP 12 G 20 A 32 PTS -8 16.21 Min 49.0% FO

Last season:

Bozak 73 GP 18 G 29 A 47 PTS -7 18:50 Mins 52.7% FO
Richards 74 GP 18 G 26 A 44 PTS +3 18:53 Mins 50.5% FO

Does it make it harder to not re-sign this guy given that during the regular season he give us roughly comparable production to Mike Richards in Los Angeles?

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05-28-2013, 11:58 PM
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No.

I expect better from someone that plays with Kessel and JVR, plus the 1st PP Unit.

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05-28-2013, 11:59 PM
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Okay I love Bozak but he isn't a Richard. Mike Richard is a playoff hero man, bozie is just starting his game in the playoffs.

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05-29-2013, 12:03 AM
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Richie is one of my favorite players in the NHL.


Last edited by Hurt: 05-29-2013 at 12:10 AM. Reason: let the mods decide
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05-29-2013, 12:10 AM
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You state in the first line that numbers don't tell the whole story but then later state that he should be re-signed because he has 'comparable production' to Mike Richards? That guy puts teams on his back. Tyler Bozak does not. I'm not saying Tyler Bozak SHOULDN'T be re-signed but it's not because his numbers are similar to Richie.

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05-29-2013, 12:12 AM
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Look at Richards' stats and play when he was a #1C in Philly.

This isn't even close.

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05-29-2013, 12:13 AM
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I really hope no fans from other teams stumble in here and see this.

I hate to use the word "intangibles" but the qualities that Richards has as a player trump Bozak ridiculously and every GM knows it.

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05-29-2013, 12:18 AM
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When Richards played similar minutes with similar wingers, he put up 80 pts

Bozak struggles to put up half that.

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05-29-2013, 12:18 AM
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My point is Richards doesn't provide first line production over the course of a full year, since arriving in LA, but he do other things which make up for those limitations. Bozak doesn't have a clutch reputation or leadership as Richards, but he does seem to bring some chemistry to the team and also serves a bit of a clean up function on the top line. Considering other guys are doing the heavy lifting offensively, perhaps it's worth holding onto him to see if there's future growth in his game...

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05-29-2013, 12:20 AM
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Richards is also only one year older than Bozak so I doubt we will see Bozak grow into the type of player that Richards is. Bozak's growth curve has been identical to Matt Cullen.

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05-29-2013, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
My point is Richards doesn't provide first line production over the course of a full year, since arriving in LA, but he do other things which make up for those limitations. Bozak doesn't have a clutch reputation or leadership as Richards, but he does seem to bring some chemistry to the team and also serves a bit of a clean up function on the top line. Considering other guys are doing the heavy lifting offensively, perhaps it's worth holding onto him to see if there's future growth in his game...


Bozak - 20:18 TOI
Richie - 16:21 TOI

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05-29-2013, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonMorrison View Post
Richards is also only one year older than Bozak so I doubt we will see Bozak grow into the type of player that Richards is. Bozak's growth curve has been identical to Matt Cullen.
He's going to have a similar career to Cullen too if he asks for a ridiculous contract.

Jumping from team to team to team to team to team to team.

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05-29-2013, 12:24 AM
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A great case study on how G/A/PTS/+/- say nothing....

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05-29-2013, 12:25 AM
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FLASH905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brody View Post


Bozak - 20:18 TOI
Richie - 16:21 TOI
Richie is the 2C in LA. Imagine Richie with Kessel and Lupul? Plus Richards plays point on PP

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05-29-2013, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agropop View Post
a great case study on how g/a/pts/+/- say nothing....
this

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05-29-2013, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASH905 View Post
Richie is the 2C in LA. Imagine Richie with Kessel and Lupul? Plus Richards plays point on PP
My post means to show that even with less ice time, Richards is still better offensively. Even though he's not "providing first line offence" or whatever was said above. I also believe he's better defensively.

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05-29-2013, 12:29 AM
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Richards plays on the 2nd line in LA, and on a 100% defensive-minded Darryl Sutter team. This isn't even close to a valid comparison.

Matt Cullen isn't a good comparable either. He had solid production from the 2nd line with 25 goals, so he isn't riding the coattails of some star players like Bozak is.

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05-29-2013, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agropop View Post
A great case study on how G/A/PTS/+/- say nothing....
Your opinion is incorrect.

When we're talking about a 1st line Center playing with superstars and on the main PP unit, the statistics you cite above are the precise means of assessing a player.

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05-29-2013, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Your opinion is incorrect.

When we're talking about a 1st line Center playing with superstars and on the main PP unit, the statistics you cite above are the precise means of assessing a player.
Sorry....

CAN, say nothing....

Usage is important, I won't disagree. Quality of line mates, zone starts, quality of competition, and PPTOI should all be taken into consideration before making comparisons. If these things aren't comparable then comparing offensive output is pointless...

Example, Bozak and Grabovski.

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05-29-2013, 01:00 AM
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This might not sound fair to Bozak but Mike Richards was also a 1st round pick and was a #1 Centre when he played with the Flyers and over his career he has done a lot more. Plus if you ask any Leafs fans if Brian Burke was able to trade for him at the 2011 Draft, I'm sure at the time we would have no problems trading Kadri and Kulemin because he would be the #1 Centre they have been looking for.

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05-29-2013, 01:00 AM
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There's a million factors that don't get credited on the stat sheet. So no. Do not re-sign him for anything over 2.5mil

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05-29-2013, 01:10 AM
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Mike Richards = Stanley cup finals, been in the playoffs every single career year except one.

Has Stanley ring.. Enough said?

If we can draft someone close to his ability... Wow. He's an older galchenyuk

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05-29-2013, 01:21 AM
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Boz played 20:18 TOI with 52pt Kessel and 32pr JVR. Richards played 16:21 TOI with 33pt Carter and either 14pt Penner or 14pt Clifford. We're comparing a 1st line player with a 2nd line player, and in spite of the big difference in minutes and linemates, they scored similarly. That actually isn't that flattering to Bozak.

Last season Boz played with 82pt Kessel and 67pt Lupul. Richards played a bit of time with 54pt Dustin Brown, but most of it with a whole bunch of other LA wingers who did not score more than 17pts. So with worse wingers and having his worst year in the last five, the results were similar. Comparing an off year for Richards to Bozak's career best doesn't tell us anything about much their value. Boz was tied in scoring with Kyle Wellwood at 38th in the league for centers which is a bit more telling.

I was on his side going into this season because I was looking for a bit more growth. In spite of a career high in ice time (9th in the league for centers), he has actually scored at a lower ppg than last season. I know I harp on this a lot, but he doesn't take shots (88th among centers), and at age 27, with 240 NHL games under his belt, he isn't going to make big changes in his game. He shoots and scores about as frequently per minute played as Jay McClement, which is not surprising because both probably belong in the same part of the lineup.

I think if people could see him play 40 games as a number 3 guy, or maybe even 40 games on the wing, they would see him produce better results per minute played. Just because he can skate with Kessel doesn't mean he belongs with him, and just because he is good at faceoffs doesn't mean he wouldn't be more effective on the wing. That won't happen now though, because of the new contract he is either the #1 C or he is gone. They have never really tried him anywhere else have they? Since that hot debut beside Kessel they just keep rolling him out. He can do different things. If he was on the wing or bottom 6 and they said hit more, he would do that. Having him maxed out offensively playing top three might be taking away from other areas where he could contribute more.


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05-29-2013, 02:00 AM
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Mike Richards is a two-way shut down centre who plays a similar role as Mikhail Grabovski. Obviously he's significantly better than Grabs, but Bozak would perform poorly in such a role. In short, Bozak is an entry-level 2nd line centre, while Richards is two-way #1C who can shut down top lines.

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05-29-2013, 02:24 AM
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Oh my, other fanbases would have a field day with this comparison

Mike Richards is the superior player of the two. I'd find it hard to believe anyone would try to argue otherwise. If we're establishing that Richards is the more skilled player who also plays lesser minutes on a more defensive minded team that overall is not an offensively potent team (and also plays with linemates who are less offensively gifted as Bozak's linemates), then I think it only becomes clearer that Bozak is not worth what Richards is worth. Not close. Being our 'version' of a Mike Richards does not make him invaluable or irreplaceable. You take Mike Richards over Tyler Bozak every single time and if we have to pay Bozak 5M to stay in Toronto, I'd much rather see him walk.

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