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Old
05-17-2013, 01:43 PM
  #101
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Jason Garrison got $4.6m last year and cost no assets. Some people were still claiming how ridiculous that is.

Chris Tanev is not nearly the shutdown guy that Garrison is and has 1/10 of the offensive upside. Why would a team pay $3m + 2nd round pick for that instead of offering a UFA that money or more?

You've got guys like Jordan Leopold and Ian White hitting the market and they were paid $3m or less on their last contract. Much better deal than Tanev at $3m + 2nd round pick.

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05-17-2013, 02:30 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I walk away from anything over $2.5, I don't care about the compensation..
Who would you rather see out there, Bieksa or Tanev? Tanev makes his teammates better. His value to the team (as a teammate) is very high. Tanev should be playing with Edler.

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05-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #103
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Who would you rather see out there, Bieksa or Tanev? Tanev makes his teammates better. His value to the team (as a teammate) is very high. Tanev should be playing with Edler.
I agree. I'd love it if we could somehow get rid of Bieksa. He's a penalty waiting to happen. But it's not gonna happen cuz he's part of the 'core'

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05-17-2013, 02:44 PM
  #104
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His closest comparable is RFA Karl Alzner's contract.

Tanev looked very good in a 3rd pair role but his numbers dropped on the 1st or 2nd pairings. I'm hoping for a 4 year deal on Hansen money.

Tanev won't have much to bargain with unless another team offersheets him. If I was a GM of another team I wouldn't mind risking a 2nd in compensation for Tanev.

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05-17-2013, 03:00 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
PK Subban got 2.875 and even before his great performance this year, he had a far sexier skill set/potential than Tanev.

Tanev gets no more than 2.5mil per, absolute maximum. I really like him, that's just the market.
If that's the market, I want to sell into it. Trade him. He is not that good. He's 140 pounds and doesn't contribute a thing on the offensive side. Not making blatant and egregious errors is fine, but it's not exactly scarce. Go and sign Scott Hannan next year if that's what you want.

If Tanev's not currently the most overvalued Canuck, he's got to be damn close. I just don't see it.

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05-17-2013, 03:05 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
If that's the market, I want to sell into it. Trade him. He is not that good. He's 140 pounds and doesn't contribute a thing on the offensive side. Not making blatant and egregious errors is fine, but it's not exactly scarce. Go and sign Scott Hannan next year if that's what you want.

If Tanev's not currently the most overvalued Canuck, he's got to be damn close. I just don't see it.
What a joke.
Did you even watch him play this year? At points in the season he was our best dman defensively. Ya trade him and get older. Thank god you arent the GM.

2.5/year max, 3 year deal

Get it done. This is fair value for a player like him.

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05-17-2013, 03:07 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
If that's the market, I want to sell into it. Trade him. He is not that good. He's 140 pounds and doesn't contribute a thing on the offensive side. Not making blatant and egregious errors is fine, but it's not exactly scarce. Go and sign Scott Hannan next year if that's what you want.

If Tanev's not currently the most overvalued Canuck, he's got to be damn close. I just don't see it.
He's young though. I don't think he's overvalued, I think people just forget that he's still only just 23. Tanev's been making strides every season, he hasn't had one yet where he's taken a step back.

Look at this season. He's taking a bigger step to playing top 4 minutes, he's being used heavily on the PK now over guys like Bieksa and Edler, his points total have also quiet skyrocketed this year. He's on pace to score 4 goals and 10 assists over a full season. That's 14 points. Once he starts getting significant top 4 minutes, he should be able to log in 25 points a season, which is very good for a defensively minded top-4 defenseman.

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05-17-2013, 03:11 PM
  #108
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What a joke.
Did you even watch him play this year? At points in the season he was our best dman defensively. Ya trade him and get older. Thank god you arent the GM.
Did I say "get older"? No. Trade him for a pick, or for some other young comparable guy. Who cares. Calling Chris Tanev "our best dman defensively" is ridiculous. Paying him less than 10% of what Subban got would make our team the laughing stock.

He's not that good, guys.

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05-17-2013, 03:15 PM
  #109
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I agree. I'd love it if we could somehow get rid of Bieksa. He's a penalty waiting to happen. But it's not gonna happen cuz he's part of the 'core'
My take is you don't think the Canuck's current 'core' is capable of winning a Cup, and I agree. The time to completely rebuild is now. Guys go for picks and young assets, who could compete for the Cup down the road - if the team drafts properly.

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05-17-2013, 03:15 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Did I say "get older"? No. Trade him for a pick, or for some other young comparable guy. Who cares. Calling Chris Tanev "our best dman defensively" is ridiculous. Paying him less than 10% of what Subban got would make our team the laughing stock.

He's not that good, guys.
Disagree. The kid is a gem. Lucky to have him.

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05-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Did I say "get older"? No. Trade him for a pick, or for some other young comparable guy. Who cares. Calling Chris Tanev "our best dman defensively" is ridiculous. Paying him less than 10% of what Subban got would make our team the laughing stock.

He's not that good, guys.
Go cast your 'line' elsewhere. Are you the rock version, or just the standard type?

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05-17-2013, 03:21 PM
  #112
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Disagree. The kid is a gem. Lucky to have him.
Not at 2.5-3m.

Part of the reason we all love the kid, is because he's simple, safe, and does that for CHEAP.

At $2.5, he's no longer a bargain or a good contract. He's a run of the mill 3rd pairing defender who might be able to transition to the top 4.

I'll agree, Alzner is his best comparable in terms of skill set (safe and simple) the guy got $1.285 and actually plays the toughest competition on his team.

I think for as much as we love Tanev, we overrate him big time.

Just about every team has a steady guy like this, but for the most part the other teams steady guys actually do something on the scoresheet (McDonagh to bring up one guy).

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05-17-2013, 03:23 PM
  #113
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My take is you don't think the Canuck's current 'core' is capable of winning a Cup, and I agree. The time to completely rebuild is now. Guys go for picks and young assets, who could compete for the Cup down the road - if the team drafts properly.
I'm with you. I think the Sedins are trending downwards so I'd test the market on the twins for sure. I'd also look at moving Bieksa.

Fricken love Kesler and his style of play, so I'd keep him. Would probably keep the versatile Burrows too.

If Gillis wants to be bold, those are some bold moves. Might be a chemistry killer but a shake-up is needed and we'd get younger too.

(i'm aware these players have nmc/ntc clauses)

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05-17-2013, 03:27 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Not at 2.5-3m.

Part of the reason we all love the kid, is because he's simple, safe, and does that for CHEAP.

At $2.5, he's no longer a bargain or a good contract. He's a run of the mill 3rd pairing defender who might be able to transition to the top 4.

I'll agree, Alzner is his best comparable in terms of skill set (safe and simple) the guy got $1.285 and actually plays the toughest competition on his team.

I think for as much as we love Tanev, we overrate him big time.

Just about every team has a steady guy like this, but for the most part the other teams steady guys actually do something on the scoresheet (McDonagh to bring up one guy).
Tanev at 3 is a better player than Bieksa at 4+. Some might argue he's better than Edler at 5. He's likely only going to get 1.5 to 2, but he's a far better player than you realize. Remember, he makes his partner a better player. That's Hamhuis territory, who is the Canucks best D-man.

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05-17-2013, 03:36 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by stickside View Post
I'm with you. I think the Sedins are trending downwards so I'd test the market on the twins for sure. I'd also look at moving Bieksa.

Fricken love Kesler and his style of play, so I'd keep him. Would probably keep the versatile Burrows too.

If Gillis wants to be bold, those are some bold moves. Might be a chemistry killer but a shake-up is needed and we'd get younger too.

(i'm aware these players have nmc/ntc clauses)
Haha. The Sedin's & Bieksa are really the only 3 players on this team that I'd really not want to trade. Luongo, too, though at this point it's a pipedream to think that he'd have any interest in sticking around.

Dumb to trade the Sedin's, because they're not going to be overpaid. They want to stay here and retire here. They'll take less. Their hockey IQ's will likely allow them to stay productive offensively even with increasing age. Won't get better value elsewhere.

Also dumb to trade Bieksa, because his personality is scarce, especially on this team. He's really our only defenceman who appears to have human and not robot genetics. He is a leader. He's a mid-pairing defenceman, but he's worth keeping around.

Everyone else is fair game, IMO. And if there's even discussion about Tanev getting an offer sheet, I'd trade him so fast his head would spin.

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05-17-2013, 03:36 PM
  #116
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I'm with you. I think the Sedins are trending downwards so I'd test the market on the twins for sure. I'd also look at moving Bieksa.

Fricken love Kesler and his style of play, so I'd keep him. Would probably keep the versatile Burrows too.

If Gillis wants to be bold, those are some bold moves. Might be a chemistry killer but a shake-up is needed and we'd get younger too.

(i'm aware these players have nmc/ntc clauses)
We are absolutely on the same page. Kesler and Burrows are for sure keepers. Hamhuis and Garrison too. None of the kids are on the market. All the other guys are gone for picks/assets.

Burke traded a lot to get the Twins, but it paid off down the road with that close Cup in 2011. It's time to do that again. I wonder if Edler could get 2 or 3 in this year's draft? The Sedins would have a ton of value at this season's trade deadline. They would be rental players that (together) could return a really high pick or picks from a team that thinks they are close.

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05-17-2013, 03:39 PM
  #117
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The Sedins would have a ton of value at this season's trade deadline. They would be rental players that (together) could return a really high pick or picks from a team that thinks they are close.
Wrong. What contending team is going to have $12M in free cap space?

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05-17-2013, 03:40 PM
  #118
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IIRC, more accurately, its "players who havent been in the league for four years"
But Tanev signed his first NHL contract after the age of 20 and the term is reduced to three years. Is he eligible for arbitration?

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05-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #119
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Wrong. What contending team is going to have $12M in free cap space?
You need to find a new pond.

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05-17-2013, 03:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by stickside View Post
Disagree. The kid is a gem. Lucky to have him.
It's not about having him, it's about the price of having him. The question is whether we still want him at, say, $2.5M/yr.

I'm...dubious.

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05-17-2013, 03:57 PM
  #121
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Haha. The Sedin's & Bieksa are really the only 3 players on this team that I'd really not want to trade. Luongo, too, though at this point it's a pipedream to think that he'd have any interest in sticking around.

Dumb to trade the Sedin's, because they're not going to be overpaid. They want to stay here and retire here. They'll take less. Their hockey IQ's will likely allow them to stay productive offensively even with increasing age. Won't get better value elsewhere.

Also dumb to trade Bieksa, because his personality is scarce, especially on this team. He's really our only defenceman who appears to have human and not robot genetics. He is a leader. He's a mid-pairing defenceman, but he's worth keeping around.

Everyone else is fair game, IMO. And if there's even discussion about Tanev getting an offer sheet, I'd trade him so fast his head would spin.
I like your points about the Sedins. Their style of play will definitely let them play to an advanced age. They're more cerebral, soccer one-touch type players. But still, I'd move them.

And Bieksa's personality? I love it too. He's a breath of fresh air for sound bites. Still not enough reason to keep him tho. He takes costly penalties and all too often regresses to 'casual kev.' See ya, Juice.

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05-17-2013, 04:00 PM
  #122
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I'm with you. I think the Sedins are trending downwards so I'd test the market on the twins for sure. I'd also look at moving Bieksa.

Fricken love Kesler and his style of play, so I'd keep him. Would probably keep the versatile Burrows too.

If Gillis wants to be bold, those are some bold moves. Might be a chemistry killer but a shake-up is needed and we'd get younger too.

(i'm aware these players have nmc/ntc clauses)
I am with ya. Sedins aren't gonna get us anywhere unless they really pick it up. Burrows has chem with the team and goes to the net and yes I love Kesler too. Gillis better do something.

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05-17-2013, 04:13 PM
  #123
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People talking about trading away Tanev ...are you ****ing kidding me? Good thing that wont happen. Tanev is a beauty and his offensive upside will show as he matures.

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05-17-2013, 04:17 PM
  #124
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Why? Teams wouldn't pay a UFA of similar quality that much and they don't even have to give up assets to do that.
Exactly. Working with a depressed cap, what do people think a UFA with Tanev's skillset is worth on the open market? I'd say about 2.5 million would be the top end. He's an interesting prospect, but his offense is underwhelming, and he brings zero physicality.

A team would have to be pretty high on his upside to think it's worth paying him UFA dollars, giving up a 2nd, and earning some bad will from teams around the league for making the offer.

I'm not saying it's impossible. I just don't think it's very likely. I also don't think the Canucks should worry about it much, because if someone signs him for 3.5 million you probably let him go. Ideally the Canucks sign him before then, but if Tanev plays hardball, he could end up somewhere else. That's business.

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05-17-2013, 04:33 PM
  #125
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People talking about trading away Tanev ...are you ****ing kidding me? Good thing that wont happen. Tanev is a beauty and his offensive upside will show as he matures.
One person is, and then...

I like this line best

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Trade him for a pick, or for some other young comparable guy.
So trade a young Tanev, for a young comparable version of Tanev, way to do nothing by doing something.

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