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KHL after Sochi Games

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Old
05-30-2013, 07:07 PM
  #101
Jonimaus
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
Well there could be also 30 team league with teams from Germany, Switzerland and Austria while Swedes and Fins could continue their dreams as feeder leagues for NHL/KHL and Central European League.

Just imagine having Berlin, Hamburg, Cologne, Munich, Mannheim, Düsseldorf + maybe new additions Dresden and Leipzig together with teams like Bern, Davos, ZSC Lions, EV Zug and RB Salzburg, EC KAC and Vienna Capitals in one league. ^^
How could the swedish and finnish leagues become feeders to worse clubs with less money? Unless KHL plans on financing CHL too.

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05-31-2013, 01:07 AM
  #102
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Russian Hockey Federation has asked the KHL to lower the limit of foreign players to three.

Not happening I hope. The KHL with 28 teams is already watered down and lowering the limit of foreign players to three would be a disaster for the level of play in the league.

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05-31-2013, 01:18 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Russian Hockey Federation has asked the KHL to lower the limit of foreign players to three.

Not happening I hope. The KHL with 28 teams is already watered down and lowering the limit of foreign players to three would be a disaster for the level of play in the league.
That is only PR for media/fans from FHR, nothing will happen .... there is a fight among FHR-KHL and you know how it works.

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05-31-2013, 01:22 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
How could the swedish and finnish leagues become feeders to worse clubs with less money? Unless KHL plans on financing CHL too.
where is that written? Why should german/sui club be worse with less money? If Slovan from Slovakia is better and has more money than swedish clubs, I see no reason why clubs from germany/switzerland should not achieve this level (playing KHL or some euro league)

Swedes want to be isolated, their choice, but pls, dont bring stupid idea of Champions League to discussion again and again. You said that swedish and finnish fans dont care about int.games, that sponsors dont care, why to have Champions League then? No, we dont want it, there is KHL, you can join or refuse.

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05-31-2013, 01:41 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
That is only PR for media/fans from FHR, nothing will happen .... there is a fight among FHR-KHL and you know how it works.
Yes. The one who has the money has the power.

The KHL should actually do more to develop young players in Russia but limiting the foreign limit is not a way to go. The work needs to be done in the MHL and VHL. The KHL is not a development league.

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05-31-2013, 02:02 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Yes. The one who has the money has the power.

The KHL should actually do more to develop young players in Russia but limiting the foreign limit is not a way to go. The work needs to be done in the MHL and VHL. The KHL is not a development league.
Yep, KHL is not a development league but I have a feeling that young players and Tretyak think it is. That is a problem of them. VHL/MHL are for developing, young guys should prove their qualities here not to move to Canada as soon as possible, that is not profesional behaviour.

KHL has done a lot for developing in MHL/VHL, but problem is that kids dont get it (they prefer to give up and move to Canada instead). Look, there is a rule of young players in VHL - bad move?? MHL will have age limit at 20yrs next season, the 21ers to VHL - bad move? Yes, there is not so many 19yrs in KHL, but look at NHL - only cca 20 such kids per season... similar numbers in KHL. Yes, Elitserien has 50+ guys under 19 in league but KHL can not be compared with developing (junior+) league but with NHL.

I agree that KHL must done more for developing, but limits for juniors, or less foreigners is not an option. Why do Swedes bring young prospects from whole Europe to its youth programme? To strenghten it. Canada the same. KHL/VHL/MHL should do the same. To bring best euro (young) players to the system. Since now clubs will have rights for drafted players only for 3 years, until kids are 20... you know how it works, club does not offer a contract within 3 years (17-20yrs of a player), the player is UFA. I can imagine KHL clubs will offer contracts to drafted Europeans. Who knows how they will reacts?? How will KHL reacts (ban limits for example)?

KHL must control kids hockey in Russia, FHR can not do that because they have no idea how to do it. Or to change people in FHR and bring new one.

KHL is consistent in limits for foreigners (juniors). KHL is againt them, but has to accept it due to FHR. FHR wanted in past to decrease limit for foreigners, KHL did not do that. Why should KHL change its mind in next 2-5 yrs? Why if KHL is stronger/bigger/more powerfull now and no OG is Sochi? Does not make sense. The same limit for juniors.

KHL wont give up, they will destroy FHR at least I hope. All depends on "situation." More complicated is KHL´s attitude towards IIHF, Champions League, NHL because it is "international chess game" not "russian one." But as you wrote, the one who has the money has the power.

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05-31-2013, 03:30 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Russian Hockey Federation has asked the KHL to lower the limit of foreign players to three.

Not happening I hope. The KHL with 28 teams is already watered down and lowering the limit of foreign players to three would be a disaster for the level of play in the league.
I am so tired of the FHR and their nonsense. They are completely useless and inept. Where would Russian hockey be if there was no KHL and the "brilliant minds" of the FHR had their way? What have they done for Russian hockey? Their only hope of keeping any kind of power is a Gold in Sochi and as of now that is looking like a stretch. Can any one tell me what players developed due to their limits on foreign players or the Russian goalie rule? The only thing they should have any say over is VHL/MHL. The KHL is an international organization and should not be under the thumb of any national hockey organization. Can you imagine USA Hockey limiting the number of non Americans on NHL teams in the US?

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05-31-2013, 03:39 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
The best solution would be a third super league like CHL (Central "European" Hockey League). So clubs in the West can compete against NHL AND KHL.

You all know I love KHL as a product but one has to see that KHL is Eastern European/Asian product. Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and others can have their own league together with 32 teams.

PS:

Such a league could look likes this: 6 teams from Sweden / Finland / Germany / Switzerland each = 24 teams + 2 from Norway and Denmark each = 28 teams + teams in London, Paris, Milano and Vienna = 32 teams.

It's not gonna happen for the same reason the KHL is a Russian enterprise...the hockey organizations in these countries don't want to spend the money, they are short sighted and xenophobic.

The IIHF and the other European non KHL organizations want Russia to spend money on a champion's league for them and then to go away. Well that's not hot it works.

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05-31-2013, 03:42 AM
  #109
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The FHR thinks that limiting foreign players in the KHL will bring more opportunities for Russian kids to play in the KHL and thus these kids develop better.

This is a completely false thought. Let's look at Finland for example. Currently the level of SM-liiga is not very good. Most of the best adult players have left the league. This has given many youngsters a chance to play in SM-liiga that would otherwise play in the juniors or Mestis.

Has this actually benefited Finnish hockey and these young players? No. The competition level of the SM-liiga has fallen down which has made a route to SM-liiga easier for these kids. They get to play in SM-liiga without having to work and develop their skills as hard as they had to before. When Teemu Selänne, Saku Koivu and Mikko Koivu entered SM-liiga they had to work a lot more to even get 4th line playing time than the current kids. Right now we see 16-17 year old kids with average talent playing in the first two lines in some SM-liiga teams.

What would happen if the KHL made a limit for three foreign players? The young players would automatically get more playing time without having to actually work on their skills. You would have players such as Maxim Karpov and Yegor Dugin playing in the second line instead of 3rd or 4rd line and the 3rd and 4rd lines filled with VHL scrubs. The level of play would take a big hit.

The work has to be done in the MHL/VHL and only those young players who are actually good enough to play in the big league should play there.

I admit that young Russians leaving for Canada is a big problem right now and this has to be addressed somehow. But not with limiting the foreigners in the KHL. In my opinion a proper limit for foreign players for Russian KHL teams should be six or seven. We have to have some limit because otherwise some teams could abandon junior development and just rely on foreign mercenaries. But a limit of three is way too low. We want to have a lot of quality foreigners in the league because it makes the league better and more interesting.


Last edited by Peter25: 05-31-2013 at 03:50 AM.
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Old
05-31-2013, 04:37 AM
  #110
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Code:
ФХР попросит КХЛ ужесточить лимит легионеров до трех (после Олимпиады)
ENG: FHR asks the KHL 2 put the limit of foreigners down to 3 (after the olympics).

their thinking is insane!!!!!!!! this would ruin the khl.

IMO the limit must go high to at least to 9, best case "unlimited".


Last edited by stv11: 05-31-2013 at 06:50 AM. Reason: removed obscenity
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Old
05-31-2013, 04:49 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Code:
ФХР попросит КХЛ ужесточить лимит легионеров до трех (после Олимпиады)
ENG: FHR asks the KHL 2 put the limit of foreigners down to 3 (after the olympics).
Good for FIN/SWE leagues. (If implemented)

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05-31-2013, 04:51 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Good for FIN/SWE leagues. (If implemented)
Agreed. That would be good for SM-liiga and Elitserien but I don't think it will be implemented.

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Old
05-31-2013, 05:09 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
I am so tired of the FHR and their nonsense. They are completely useless and inept. Where would Russian hockey be if there was no KHL and the "brilliant minds" of the FHR had their way? What have they done for Russian hockey? Their only hope of keeping any kind of power is a Gold in Sochi and as of now that is looking like a stretch. Can any one tell me what players developed due to their limits on foreign players or the Russian goalie rule? The only thing they should have any say over is VHL/MHL. The KHL is an international organization and should not be under the thumb of any national hockey organization. Can you imagine USA Hockey limiting the number of non Americans on NHL teams in the US?
This, KHL should separate itself from FHR/IIHF and dont respect IIHF international calendar like NHL. I respect IIH´s point of view, but IIHF has done many bad things for euro hockey for last 20 yrs (lets start with awfull negotiations with NHL about PTA etc). We dont need it anymore. On the other hand, IIHF schedulling/Champions League is not advantageous for KHL as a league and IIHF/federations as well. I can you give an examples

1) GM of slovak NT is latest World Championship said for slovak media that players from Slovan was not good enough.. why? Maybe their sporting form was not good. Why? Because they finished season in early March? Ok, if IIHF/federations of Slovakia/Czech rep/Finland/Belarus/Latvia (countries with most KHL players, not counting Russia who has guys who played the end of GC) are satisfied with such schedulling (and players out of form), then I can say nothing.

2) KHL wants to hire ref Jerabek (final of last 2 WHC) and not only him, but all best euro refs (like Ronn in past)

3) KHL needs to have more games - at least 60-70, but it is not possible with status quo.

4) Champions League. Who will sponsor it? How about schedulling? Will KHL have at least half of clubs in group stage? Because the best euro clubs are in KHL, the clubs with most money are in KHL .. We have an evidence that IIHF can not organise euro league (last edition of Champions League), the same European Trophy (posters from Sweden use to claim that the clubs/fans dont care about ET, why should Champions League be different?)

Yep, do nothing, but who will play at WHC and who will be refs at WHC if KHL wont allow its players/refs to join?

Yep, do Champions League without KHL... but it will be a joke. Yep, give KHL clubs 4 spots (of lets say 16/24), another joke. KHL should have at least 1/2 of clubs in such competition.

KHL offered an cooperation to european clubs, they did not accept it. Their choice. I am sure KHL will decide if any Champions League will appear or not. Now I dont understand behaviour KHL towards this new project, but I am sure KHL has a plan... Euro hockey must be govern by organisation which has power, not by people who has been harming euro hockey enviroment.


I dont know why KHL should support Champions League, but if we want any Champions League, lets look at basketball:

- lets say 16 teams in group age (games of domestic league counting into Champions League)
- licence system (criteria: budget, arena, population of city)

multi-year Licence A (clubs of KHL) - 8 or 10 clubs
one-year Licence B (best euro clubs) - 6 or 4 clubs
Qualification - 2 clubs (all Europe)

If any club wants to get Licence A, they have to become a member of KHL first.

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Old
05-31-2013, 05:18 AM
  #114
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Such a move would undermine the level of the clubs with smaller budgets that have to rely on the foreigners simply because they cannot afford the "top-level" Russian players. Ironically enough those clubs are the only clubs in the league with a genuine motivation to develop the VHL/MHL talents in their rosters. It's a no-win situation for everyone.

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05-31-2013, 05:26 AM
  #115
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Hopefully this goes thru. Next up is for FIN/SWE clubs to fix these "out-clauses"(sp?) to KHL.

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05-31-2013, 05:32 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Hopefully this goes thru. Next up is for FIN/SWE clubs to fix these "out-clauses"(sp?) to KHL.
I believe after Sochi the limit for foreign players is more likely to be removed.

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05-31-2013, 05:54 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Hopefully this goes thru. Next up is for FIN/SWE clubs to fix these "out-clauses"(sp?) to KHL.
The limit WILL be removed. The FHR can only watch and do nothing.

I thought in the EU closing such a loop hole would be illegal, no? At least that is what some of the Europeans have said before?

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05-31-2013, 06:00 AM
  #118
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Guys, we need to understand what goining on... at least in my eyes (I can be wrong)

1) FHR is loosing power within russian hockey, better said, top managers (Tretyak, Fesyuk etc) are loosing their good-paid job.

- These people have own interest to blame KHL, to make steps which are against KHL´ś interests (Champions League, IIHF schedulling, NHL PTA, limits etc)

- Yep, FHR´s job is to protect interests of russian hockey. What did they do for kids, to develop kids hockey? Pls, tell me it.

- limits for foreigners/juniors - that is nice PR, ordinary fans like to hear it.

2) KHL can not attact FHR before Sochi

- this move of KHL is tactic, KHL has been doing everything to help RUS NT (EHT, limits, etc)... if RUS NT failes in Sochi, KHL will say: we did our best, but FHR is not appropriate organisation, lets fire people from FHR/ "abandon" FHR (NA model)

- KHL has power, money... Was not FHR (Tretyak) against KHL in 2007/2008?? As I know he was, but after meeting with Medvedev/Fetisov, he changed his mind ... why? Who knows, rumours said that Fetisov wanted to stop financing FHR from federal budget... who knows, maybe rumours were wrong or my russian is awfull.

3) KHL has done good (not great) job in IIHF, Fasel changed the mind, will support KHL´s expansion... do you think that KHL invested its time to IIHF to give up after Sochi??

4) KHL needs this to happen

A) get rid of FHR´s leadership, B) completed finnish project (yep, very serious info), C) no free market EU-NA, D) no Champions League

Dont know if this all happens


Last edited by stv11: 06-03-2013 at 03:36 AM. Reason: removed political statement
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Old
05-31-2013, 06:46 AM
  #119
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Sometimes seems that FHR members sit around a table and think " how else could we piss off the KHL and its fans?" Oh i know! lets try to make that less foreign players play in KHL,yeah thats it!

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05-31-2013, 07:28 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfrilla View Post
Hopefully this goes thru. Next up is for FIN/SWE clubs to fix these "out-clauses"(sp?) to KHL.
There's nothing they can do to stop these. PAs and agents would sue, EU would probably put those in the same area as Bosman (preventing movement of workers). Unless the KHL is willing to sign a PTA with other European leagues that guarantees a fixed minimum sum for each player, I can't see the situation improving.

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05-31-2013, 07:30 AM
  #121
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Although this may seem a bit tin-foilish but could Mr.Putin have anyu influence on how battle betwwen FHR and KHL turns out?

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05-31-2013, 07:35 AM
  #122
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Sometimes seems that FHR members sit around a table and think " how else could we piss off the KHL and its fans?" Oh i know! lets try to make that less foreign players play in KHL,yeah thats it!
Imagine that, Russian Hockey Federation trying to increase the number of domestic players in their teams, disgraceful!

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05-31-2013, 07:36 AM
  #123
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Although this may seem a bit tin-foilish but could Mr.Putin have anyu influence on how battle betwwen FHR and KHL turns out?
More important to Putin, Russian national team or KHL?

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05-31-2013, 07:43 AM
  #124
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Imagine that, Russian Hockey Federation trying to increase the number of domestic players in their teams, disgraceful!
More competitve league,creates more competitve players,if you dont understand that,than i cant help you.

And again- KHL is not a devlopmental league like Smliiga or SEL,VHL is for developing players KHL is for developed product.

Every KHL fan hates FHR.

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05-31-2013, 07:45 AM
  #125
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More important to Putin, Russian national team or KHL?
Can you rephrase that?

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