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The Memorial Cup 2013 Thread! (Portland vs Halifax on Sportsnet tonight - 7pm)

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Old
05-20-2013, 10:28 AM
  #351
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
For me, right now, he's behind:

Tinordi, Beaulieu, Nygren, Dietz, Ellis, Pateryn, Bennett

He only surpasses Didier and Sullivan in my books. But things can change fast.
Same here. Considered Dietz ahead of Didier and Thrower last year, and that hasn't changed for me. Sullivan is an afterthought for me, as it stands.

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05-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Same here. Considered Dietz ahead of Didier and Thrower last year, and that hasn't changed for me. Sullivan is an afterthought for me, as it stands.
I hope Sullivan can step it up though. I understand it was his freshman year (correct me if I am wrong) at BC but I would like to see him become one of their main D-Men on the blue line.

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05-20-2013, 11:25 AM
  #353
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I hope Sullivan can step it up though. I understand it was his freshman year (correct me if I am wrong) at BC but I would like to see him become one of their main D-Men on the blue line.
You watch, I bet he'll end up playing behind incoming freshmen McCoshen and Santini. He might have a leg up on Savage or Piazza, but we'll see who else gets added to a mix which should still include Matheson, Doherty, and MacLeod unless I'm mistaken. Wasn't holding my breath on Sullivan at the draft, and nothing has changed for me yet.

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05-20-2013, 11:35 AM
  #354
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You watch, I bet he'll end up playing behind incoming freshmen McCoshen and Santini. He might have a leg up on Savage or Piazza, but we'll see who else gets added to a mix which should still include Matheson, Doherty, and MacLeod unless I'm mistaken. Wasn't holding my breath on Sullivan at the draft, and nothing has changed for me yet.
Maybe he should transfer. If they have that many guys coming in he should go to a school where he will get playing time. He should transfer to Vermont. He will be one of their regulars.

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05-20-2013, 11:54 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I hope he does.



He has nothing left? The guy just regressed this year like there's no tomorrow. He has everything left as he has to improve, has to bring his energy level up, has to be the go-to-guy on his team next year.

Having said that, he could still do all those guys in higher leagues, but for me...it would be ECHL. There's no room anyway in the AHL.
If he was staying in the WHL next year I'd like to see him traded to a team like Portland. Jones and Rutkowski will both be leaving so that should open up a roster spot for him. Portland just seems a lot better at developing players. I'm not sure how the sanctions against Portland affects them so if that doesn't work, maybe a team like the Vancouver Giants.

Whatever happened in Saskatoon the past season should stay there and it's time to move on from there.

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05-20-2013, 12:08 PM
  #356
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If he was staying in the WHL next year I'd like to see him traded to a team like Portland. Jones and Rutkowski will both be leaving so that should open up a roster spot for him. Portland just seems a lot better at developing players. I'm not sure how the sanctions against Portland affects them so if that doesn't work, maybe a team like the Vancouver Giants.

Whatever happened in Saskatoon the past season should stay there and it's time to move on from there.
Or the Oil King.

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05-20-2013, 02:14 PM
  #357
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For a guy of his size and his style, I've got to say I thought Thrower's skating was more outstanding than what I saw tonight.

As for Dietz, to me he's quicker, more physical, more of a physical presence and better offensively than Ellis. Then again, Ellis was playing a lesser role for his team last year than Dietz is doing this year. So I don't know if I'm ready to say Ellis is better than Dietz defensively.

Of all 4 Canadiens prospects last season, Tinordi was the one who really impressed me. This season, I've only seen one game of them both. but I like Dietz' game better than Thrower. I really imagined Thrower as some kind of Wisniewski, but to me, he's nowhere near the skater nor near the physical presence Wiz has always been. We shall see...

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05-20-2013, 02:18 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I hope he does.



He has nothing left? The guy just regressed this year like there's no tomorrow. He has everything left as he has to improve, has to bring his energy level up, has to be the go-to-guy on his team next year.

Having said that, he could still do all those guys in higher leagues, but for me...it would be ECHL. There's no room anyway in the AHL.
I agree with you completely. Thrower needs to be the go-to-guy for another year at the junior level and dominate the position. There was friction between him and the coaches and he seemed to let being drafted in the second round to Montreal get to his head, like he didn't need to work hard to be good. He could be one of those players to switches positions in the AHL. He has enough offensive capabilities and toughness to play a bottom-six forward position but so does Dietz who was a forward before converting to a defenseman at the suggestion of Rich Sutter and then playing junior. Dietz saw time as a forward and had some success last season with injuries up front to the Blades.

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05-20-2013, 02:35 PM
  #359
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Do you think Thrower will be back with Saskatoon next season ?
no, i'd be surprised to see that happen, he should turn pro over the summer, perhaps after the development camp.

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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If Thrower switched to being a forward, say a RW, I'd be a lot more optimistic about his future with the Habs. He has enough talent to keep him around for a few more years, there's no reason to think he won't do well enough in the AHL.
I don't see why they would move him to forward, personally I think he's going to be fine as a future NHL defensemen.

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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
So if Thrower could consistently play how he did last nightk, where would you guys rank him on our D prospect depth chart?
Jarred Tinordi
Nathan Beaulieu
Darren Dietz
Mac Bennett
Dalton Thrower
Greg Pateryn
Magnus Nygren
Josiah Didier
Morgan Ellis
Joe Stejskal
Colin Sullivan

For me, Tinordi was the most impressive this year, Beaulieu can take over a game with his offensive abilities but has a lot of holes in his defensive game. Dietz i really like, just hope to see him get quicker, improve his mobility but he's a smart, hard working solid 2 way type. Bennett can do a lot of things and his mobility really helps at both ends of the ice. Thrower is mobile as well, gritty and has offensive abilities, also has holes in his defensive game. Pateryn can do a lot of things well, needs to get quicker much like Dietz imo. Nygren it will be interesting to see if he does somehow end up playing in North America to see what he can do. Didier is like a bull moose on skates, moves well and is solid in his own end plus the PK. Elllis didn't have the best year but hopefully he can build off that for next season now that he knows what to expect. Not sure if Stejskal did enough to earn a return, will be interesting to see if the Habs offer him his QO or not. Sullivan saw very sheltered minutes so hopefully next year he will see more ice time now that Wey and Albner are gone.

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Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
I hope Sullivan can step it up though. I understand it was his freshman year (correct me if I am wrong) at BC but I would like to see him become one of their main D-Men on the blue line.
He did play most games, which is something that wasn't really expected to happen since BC just won a National Championship the previous season. The problem was that he saw very sheltered minutes, so it's hard to say what he do as he kept it simple for the most part and looked like he didn't want to do much beyond that which could have been the plan as he plays for one of the top coaches in the NCAA. Perhaps he will play more next year but if so he'll have to show a lot more then he did.

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Maybe he should transfer. If they have that many guys coming in he should go to a school where he will get playing time. He should transfer to Vermont. He will be one of their regulars.
BC is likely going for another run at yet another National Championship, so the experience should be good for him, either he improves and gets more ice time or he doesn't.

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05-20-2013, 02:55 PM
  #360
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I don't see why they would move him to forward, personally I think he's going to be fine as a future NHL defensemen.
Thrower may very well make it to the NHL as a defenseman but I don't see it happening as a Hab.

Last season we had Subban, Emelin, Diaz, Gorges and Tinordi playing RD and I don't see Thrower playing well enough to displace 3 of them, so even if one or two of them move on or change to the left side he still won't be good enough to make the roster.

Plus, I think Dietz and Ellis will get decent playing time ahead of him before he even gets a sniff of NHL time or if we draft a guy like Bowey, he just gets pushed further back in the pecking order.

Thirdly, we could just as easily sign a UFA or trade for a $4 or $5 million cap hit d-man to fill out top 4 and then he almost certainly won't be making the team.

Traditionally, we spent a lot of the cap on d-men and we spend right to the cap ceiling, which makes it a lot harder for a guy like Thrower.

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05-20-2013, 04:55 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Thrower may very well make it to the NHL as a defenseman but I don't see it happening as a Hab.

Last season we had Subban, Emelin, Diaz, Gorges and Tinordi playing RD and I don't see Thrower playing well enough to displace 3 of them, so even if one or two of them move on or change to the left side he still won't be good enough to make the roster.

Plus, I think Dietz and Ellis will get decent playing time ahead of him before he even gets a sniff of NHL time or if we draft a guy like Bowey, he just gets pushed further back in the pecking order.

Thirdly, we could just as easily sign a UFA or trade for a $4 or $5 million cap hit d-man to fill out top 4 and then he almost certainly won't be making the team.

Traditionally, we spent a lot of the cap on d-men and we spend right to the cap ceiling, which makes it a lot harder for a guy like Thrower.
Thrower is 19, so speculating on the future roster is a waste of time, since rosters can be very different looking down the road. At this point in his development, it's way too early to really saw just what he can do, the next step for him imo should be at the pro level to work on his decision making in his own end with the puck and without.

The Habs should be looking to work closely with him at the pro level to see what they have in him. He clearly has some offensive skills, to go with bringing a solid physical game and additional toughness. I haven't seen him a ton and when I saw him last year I was mainly focused on watching Dietz but in the games i've seen him this year I see the good and the bad. I don't know what his future will be, but i do know that he has some very interesting qualities that could lead him to end up being a solid NHLer down the road. That said I also see how he could end up being a bust as he's going to have to produce in order for teams at the pro level to put up with his defensive issues.

Thrower could spend the next 3 years in the AHL, there's no harm in giving it time to see what we have, I think it would be a very rash move to consider changing positions now unless the team really felt his defensive lapses are so bad they can't be improved upon but I would be surprised if that were indeed the case. I would rather see what a different coaching staff can do with him as a defensemen since he has a number of interesting tools to work with that could be helpful on the blueline in future. Perhaps i've been catching him on some of his better days, but I have felt all season long that some were overracting to the season Thrower was having. Not saying it went well for him but in the games i saw he always showed some good things so I'd rather not give up on him just yet.

I also wouldn't count future draft picks, they are even further away so things will be very different by then.

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05-20-2013, 05:05 PM
  #362
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That said I also see how he could end up being a bust as he's going to have to produce in order for teams at the pro level to put up with his defensive issues.
I remember some discussion awhile back here about the possibility of converting him to forward, not least in part because of our depth on D and lack of gritty, physical forwards. Thoughts?

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05-20-2013, 05:14 PM
  #363
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For a guy of his size and his style, I've got to say I thought Thrower's skating was more outstanding than what I saw tonight.

As for Dietz, to me he's quicker, more physical, more of a physical presence and better offensively than Ellis. Then again, Ellis was playing a lesser role for his team last year than Dietz is doing this year. So I don't know if I'm ready to say Ellis is better than Dietz defensively.

Of all 4 Canadiens prospects last season, Tinordi was the one who really impressed me. This season, I've only seen one game of them both. but I like Dietz' game better than Thrower. I really imagined Thrower as some kind of Wisniewski, but to me, he's nowhere near the skater nor near the physical presence Wiz has always been. We shall see...

He's exactly like Wisniewski. He's not always lost defensively, but he makes turnovers all night... He's not super agile, but he's fast enough. He has a cannon shot and he makes a good first pass. He's good in front of his net, though, like Wiz.

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05-20-2013, 05:31 PM
  #364
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He's exactly like Wisniewski. He's not always lost defensively, but he makes turnovers all night... He's not super agile, but he's fast enough. He has a cannon shot and he makes a good first pass. He's good in front of his net, though, like Wiz.
I would also say he is simultaneously not as bright and not as ******** as Wiznewski. His behaviour is more moderated, less being at the extremes then Wiznewski.

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05-20-2013, 05:35 PM
  #365
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I would also say he is simultaneously not as bright and not as ******** as Wiznewski. His behaviour is more moderated, less being at the extremes then Wiznewski.
I'd agree with that. And judging thrower off the memorial cup won't give you a give picture. If you've watched him play the last two seasons, you can tell he's really holding himself back and concentrating on his defensive game.

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05-20-2013, 07:05 PM
  #366
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Thrower is gonna be a NHLer.

He has every tools to succeed. He is a tough mother*****er. The toughest of all our prospect.

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05-20-2013, 07:38 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
For me, right now, he's behind:

Tinordi, Beaulieu, Nygren, Dietz, Ellis, Pateryn, Bennett

He only surpasses Didier and Sullivan in my books. But things can change fast. He has all the tools to move up. The gap between our guys is not too big though. It is feasable, let say, to move up immediately after Beaulieu for anybody. I mean I don't have Didier on the list and in the end, it is possible that aside from Tinordi, Didier becomes our best pure defensive d-man.
I will say this, Thrower is the youngest of all of those players.

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05-20-2013, 07:42 PM
  #368
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For a guy of his size and his style, I've got to say I thought Thrower's skating was more outstanding than what I saw tonight.

As for Dietz, to me he's quicker, more physical, more of a physical presence and better offensively than Ellis. Then again, Ellis was playing a lesser role for his team last year than Dietz is doing this year. So I don't know if I'm ready to say Ellis is better than Dietz defensively.

Of all 4 Canadiens prospects last season, Tinordi was the one who really impressed me. This season, I've only seen one game of them both. but I like Dietz' game better than Thrower. I really imagined Thrower as some kind of Wisniewski, but to me, he's nowhere near the skater nor near the physical presence Wiz has always been. We shall see...
He was playing the exact same role. Shutdown pairing, Top PP unit, and top PK unit.

Wizniewski is actually spot on to me to compare Thrower. Wiz is not a bad skater by any stretch, but he's not Etem fast either. Just like Thrower is not a fast skater, but he doesn't get caught because of his skating, which is better than Ellis, for instance.

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05-20-2013, 07:48 PM
  #369
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I will say this, Thrower is the youngest of all of those players.
Not judging their age. Judging their performances so far. If Thrower would have kept his progression since his draft year, he'd be automatically behind Beaulieu. He has in him to go back at that spot.

But I don't recall anybody from that list having such a terrible post-draft season. Some will say Tinordi was pretty dissapointing in his post-draft season...but this is totally different. New league and all, number of games played and so on. But Thrower was not only playing in the same league, he was already in his 4th season. So his ranking is deserved. But he could change all of it. I'm not panicking, not calling him a bust, not saying he won't turn it around. But next season is key to say the least.

Hudon is a pretty young kid...I'm pretty sure he's already ahead of a lot of kids older than him.

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05-20-2013, 08:07 PM
  #370
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Not judging their age. Judging their performances so far. If Thrower would have kept his progression since his draft year, he'd be automatically behind Beaulieu. He has in him to go back at that spot.

But I don't recall anybody from that list having such a terrible post-draft season. Some will say Tinordi was pretty dissapointing in his post-draft season...but this is totally different. New league and all, number of games played and so on. But Thrower was not only playing in the same league, he was already in his 4th season. So his ranking is deserved. But he could change all of it. I'm not panicking, not calling him a bust, not saying he won't turn it around. But next season is key to say the least.

Hudon is a pretty young kid...I'm pretty sure he's already ahead of a lot of kids older than him.
I know you're not panicking WS. But there are people who are ready to mutate him into a forward. Now that's panicking to me.

I'm pointing out his age to show you, and everyone that we shall be patient. He is our youngest D prospect, while it's not ideal that he had a tough season, it doesn't make him Fischer 2.0 by any stretch. I think it's normal to slot him behind guys older than him right now, especially considering how strong our Defence pipeline is.

I'm not here to say everything is perfect and that I see rainbows everywhere when I see Thrower play, there are obvious holes and aspects he needs to work on.

It's a message to everyone reading this, Keep calm and be patient with our prospects.

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05-20-2013, 08:20 PM
  #371
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1 better save than all of last game for Carruth. Let's see how he's made of 'cause that won't be easy.

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05-20-2013, 08:27 PM
  #372
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I hate watching teams so talented... Can't concentrate on 3-4 players ... there's more than 10 good prospect on the ice...

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05-20-2013, 08:29 PM
  #373
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I hate watching teams so talented... Can't concentrate on 3-4 players ... there's more than 10 good prospect on the ice...
I'm concentrating on the guys that might be available to us. Bjorkstrand, Domi and Petan.

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05-20-2013, 08:30 PM
  #374
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Domi has been very dangerous so far.

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05-20-2013, 08:33 PM
  #375
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I'm concentrating on the guys that might be available to us. Bjorkstrand, Domi and Petan.
You know as much as me that Domi will not be there, time to stop dreaming

That would be beautiful, though.

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