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Old
11-04-2013, 09:06 AM
  #326
MattyMo35
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Wow, I haven't been keeping up with Carrier much. I knew he got off to a good start, but 24 in 18 games is great. He was also named to the QMJHL's Subway Series Team.

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11-04-2013, 12:33 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Uh, Petro is most definitely a defensive stalwart. He's our best player by a mile, especially defensively.
Chris Pronger and Al MacInnis he definitely is not... He requires a partner who can cover his butt ala J-Bo. He is very good, but he isn't by any means a defensive stalwart. I disagree. He is our #1 defenseman, and he is a #1 defenseman. He has a ways to go yet defensively.

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11-04-2013, 12:39 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Chris Pronger and Al MacInnis he definitely is not... He requires a partner who can cover his butt ala J-Bo. He is very good, but he isn't by any means a defensive stalwart. I disagree. He is our #1 defenseman, and he is a #1 defenseman. He has a ways to go yet defensively.
Petro is a great defender. I really think a lot of people underestimate him because of his offense. I would call him a stalwart any day. But again, it's all just opinion.

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11-04-2013, 12:43 PM
  #329
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I guess we don't have any defensive stalwarts then.

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11-04-2013, 12:43 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Chris Pronger and Al MacInnis he definitely is not... He requires a partner who can cover his butt ala J-Bo. He is very good, but he isn't by any means a defensive stalwart. I disagree. He is our #1 defenseman, and he is a #1 defenseman. He has a ways to go yet defensively.
We are watching 2 completely different players, Pietrangelo is by far the best defensive player on this team. He showed very clearly in 2011/12 he doesn't need a top quality partner to be that, and once he was up to speed last season then he showed it again.

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11-04-2013, 12:45 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Chris Pronger and Al MacInnis he definitely is not... He requires a partner who can cover his butt ala J-Bo. He is very good, but he isn't by any means a defensive stalwart. I disagree. He is our #1 defenseman, and he is a #1 defenseman. He has a ways to go yet defensively.
How you can watch him completely close down the play along the boards and appear almost effortlessly as he comes away with the puck, and then say something like that....I don't get it.

Did you think the same thing of Lidstrom? Pietro isn't a physical bully, but he is great with his stick and he can control his side of the ice. The only game this year where I felt he was losing battles more than winning them was vs the Sedin line.

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11-04-2013, 12:48 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Chris Pronger and Al MacInnis he definitely is not... He requires a partner who can cover his butt ala J-Bo. He is very good, but he isn't by any means a defensive stalwart. I disagree. He is our #1 defenseman, and he is a #1 defenseman. He has a ways to go yet defensively.
Al Macinnis was primarily known for his offense... Petro is a defensive stalwart. We rarely spend extended time in our zone when he's out there and that's for good reason. His reads and defensive positioning are excellent, and his outlet passes are fantastic. You are severely underrating his defensive play. You are talking about the guy who had to cover for Colaiacovo and still managed to finish fourth in the Norris voting. And he should have finished higher.

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11-04-2013, 01:16 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
How you can watch him completely close down the play along the boards and appear almost effortlessly as he comes away with the puck, and then say something like that....I don't get it.

Did you think the same thing of Lidstrom? Pietro isn't a physical bully, but he is great with his stick and he can control his side of the ice. The only game this year where I felt he was losing battles more than winning them was vs the Sedin line.
Actually, I think Lidstrom was better than both MacInnis and Pronger. I would say he is the best defenseman that I have had the pleasure of seeing play. That includes Bobby Orr. Just my preference of Lidstrom as best defender and his counterpart Yzerman as the best overall player. Disagree or not, Pietro gets caught out of position far more than we wish to admit. I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but he still has some issues defensively. I am saying the combo with J-Bo does help him with his shortcomings defensively at this point in his career.

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11-04-2013, 01:25 PM
  #334
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I have seen very few defensemen in this league that are better defensively than Alex Pietrangelo.

Having someone of Bouwmeester's caliber is great, but I think he would still be fine with someone a little worse than Bouwmeester. We just needed an upgrade on Colaiacovo and Bouw came pretty cheap.

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11-04-2013, 01:25 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by PerryTurnbullfan View Post
Actually, I think Lidstrom was better than both MacInnis and Pronger. I would say he is the best defenseman that I have had the pleasure of seeing play. That includes Bobby Orr. Just my preference of Lidstrom as best defender and his counterpart Yzerman as the best overall player. Disagree or not, Pietro gets caught out of position far more than we wish to admit. I'm not saying he isn't a great player, but he still has some issues defensively. I am saying the combo with J-Bo does help him with his shortcomings defensively at this point in his career.
At times, I actually think Petro is a better defender than JayBo.

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11-04-2013, 01:31 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Daley Tarasenkshow View Post
At times, I actually think Petro is a better defender than JayBo.
The vast majority of the time.

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11-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Daley Tarasenkshow View Post
At times, I actually think Petro is a better defender than JayBo.
I agree with that. I think he is better than JayBo. It does matter who plays with Petro though, unless you do not remember what happened when he was paired with Cole or Shatty. That simply did not work. Not that Cole or Shatty are that terrible, it is that both liked to roam. Early last year, Pietro just tried to do way too much and got out of his element. He just needs a guy that won't disappear as a partner that has a "feel" for what Pietro will do. Jaybo seems to have that...which makes them a great tandem.

Not a negative...Bourque was great, but needed a strong defensive partner as well. Orr was one of the greatest, but do you remember who Dallas Smith is?

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11-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #338
Vladys Gumption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daley Tarasenkshow View Post
At times, I actually think Petro is a better defender than JayBo.
That's because he is the better offensive and defensive player the overwhelming majority of the time. That's no slight to Bouwmeester. Petro is just that good

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Old
11-04-2013, 03:29 PM
  #339
PocketNines
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Alex Pietrangelo is one of the game's elite defensive players and if he scored 0 points he'd still be a coveted, elite defenseman, he's that good. This is a strange twist to the prospects conversation.

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11-04-2013, 03:40 PM
  #340
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Back on topic; how do people think Sam Kurker will be in the future? Only 1 point this season so far.

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Old
11-04-2013, 03:53 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Daley Tarasenkshow View Post
Back on topic; how do people think Sam Kurker will be in the future? Only 1 point this season so far.
He's definitely a project, but his point totals thus far have been pretty disappointing. I would guess he projects more as a bottom 6 forward with size and grit.

I've been watching some Wolves highlights lately and Rattie has been pretty impressive. He creates a lot of chances, and his snipe against OKC in their 6-0 win was awesome. Another thing I've noticed about Rattie, and I saw this is in the Memorial Cup as well, is that he uses a long stick. It's insane how he can pull off such smooth toe drags with such a long stick.

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11-04-2013, 07:13 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Alex Pietrangelo is one of the game's elite defensive players and if he scored 0 points he'd still be a coveted, elite defenseman, he's that good. This is a strange twist to the prospects conversation.
So much of Petros defensive value comes from the fact that he is an elite offensive player and puck possessor. The other team cant score if they dont have the puck, and his ability to create space is pretty impressive.

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11-04-2013, 07:44 PM
  #343
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Hitchcock also teaches them that he'd rather see a player take a risk in the defensive zone than in the offensive zone. Basically, if you have the opportunity for a good shot, take it instead of doing something fancy. Or put the puck deep instead of risking a turnover. But if you're in the defensive zone, if it's a risk you're comfortable with, go ahead and make that reverse play or slide on your stomach to break up a 2-on-1.

We've seen Pietro be conservative in the past, but Hitchcock's letting them take d-zone chances that can eliminate pressure that might otherwise persist and will also possibly generate a more dangerous transition. Nearly all of Pietro's mistakes come from plays like this, but he gets more than twice as many beneficial plays out of it. I think it's a great coaching strategy by Hitchcock and plays to the Blues' strengths. Not all good defense is simple, conservative, positional play.

IN CONCLUSION: I think Pietro is a defensive stalwart, meaning that Hakanpaa's potential role on the Blues will not be relative to Pietrangelo's defensive deficiencies. Shattenkirk - that's a possibility. And Polak is a movable piece, however, Hakanpaa has a lot more to show before we can accurately project him as a replacement for any of the players currently on the team.


Last edited by rumrokh: 11-04-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old
11-04-2013, 07:47 PM
  #344
MattyMo35
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Pietrangelo is not a prospect. Please get the discussion back on topic.

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11-04-2013, 08:10 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Pietrangelo is not a prospect. Please get the discussion back on topic.
Not to take a dump on moderation, but I think it's fine, given the context. The original point of discussion regarding Hakanpaa:
Quote:
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I think you have to look at him as a lower cost alternative to Polak. He is a right handed shot. Players like Polak seem to be in high demand and get good compensation at the deadline especially. Whether he is a bottom six or not, he will get plenty of ice with Pietro and Shatty not necessarily being defensive stalwarts. Schmaltz and Vanelli are both right handed shots as well. I guess the Blues have to hope one of them pans out or use them as trade chips ala Rundblad becoming Tarasenko.
The discussion is Hakanpaa's job relative to the rest of the team's qualities and how they're played. How else would you propose to address that?

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Old
11-04-2013, 08:13 PM
  #346
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Not to take a dump on moderation, but I think it's fine, given the context. The original point of discussion regarding Hakanpaa:


The discussion is Hakanpaa's job relative to the rest of the team's qualities and how they're played. How else would you propose to address that?
It is no longer a discussion of Hakanpaa. It has evolved into a discussion centered entirely on Pietrangelo.

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Old
11-05-2013, 06:09 AM
  #347
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Meeooww!! Pfft! Pfft!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
Hitchcock also teaches them that he'd rather see a player take a risk in the defensive zone than in the offensive zone. Basically, if you have the opportunity for a good shot, take it instead of doing something fancy. Or put the puck deep instead of risking a turnover. But if you're in the defensive zone, if it's a risk you're comfortable with, go ahead and make that reverse play or slide on your stomach to break up a 2-on-1.

We've seen Pietro be conservative in the past, but Hitchcock's letting them take d-zone chances that can eliminate pressure that might otherwise persist and will also possibly generate a more dangerous transition. Nearly all of Pietro's mistakes come from plays like this, but he gets more than twice as many beneficial plays out of it. I think it's a great coaching strategy by Hitchcock and plays to the Blues' strengths. Not all good defense is simple, conservative, positional play.

IN CONCLUSION: I think Pietro is a defensive stalwart, meaning that Hakanpaa's potential role on the Blues will not be relative to Pietrangelo's defensive deficiencies. Shattenkirk - that's a possibility. And Polak is a movable piece, however, Hakanpaa has a lot more to show before we can accurately project him as a replacement for any of the players currently on the team.
Very well said. I respect that, and it makes perfect sense. I guess seeing that some of the D we have really do not have the skills to do this to Pietro's level on the defensive end, I can accept this. With that being said, I do look forward to what both Hakanpaa and Edmundson may potentially bring to the table as partners for our puck moving D-men. I apologize for the tangent.

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11-05-2013, 06:13 AM
  #348
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Back on topic; how do people think Sam Kurker will be in the future? Only 1 point this season so far.
In the games I have watched, I think it will be difficult for him to score aside from creating his own offense. His role is not that of the trigger man, which would elicit higher numbers. Seems like more of a checking role ala Bassen, Lowry, and Sutter. They bang and they bang...and well...you get the idea.

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11-05-2013, 09:11 AM
  #349
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I'm guessing this is a 5'9" or shorter situation.

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Old
11-07-2013, 12:12 AM
  #350
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Vannelli with a 3 assist night for Medicine Hat, 4-12-16 in his 15 games now.

Binnington is 0-2 with a .911 sv% in his for 2 games for Kalamazoo in the ECHL.

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