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05-17-2013, 12:06 PM
  #1
Double Dion
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Frolik

Hello Hawks fans,

I was wondering about Frolik and how he is valued by fans. I like him and was curious as to what it would take to pry him away this summer. We wouldn't need to send cap back if that helps the cap situation. I'm a Flames fan btw.

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05-17-2013, 12:07 PM
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ndgt10
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When I think Frolik, I think penalty kill.

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05-17-2013, 12:11 PM
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Blackhawkswincup
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Most Hawk fans probably would prefer to trade him given his cap hit and lack of offensive production

But he has become our best PK forward and IMO should be back next year so him and Kruger can continue to be the best PK duo up front in league (IMO)

If Hawks did move him at this point it would probably be for a prospect (NCAA likely as Bowman seems to like NCAA or USHL route) or solid draft pick (3rd rounder or so)

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05-17-2013, 12:22 PM
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moose vasko
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Frolik never takes a shift off and is doing a great job for us. For what he brings, he is probably good value at 1.5/year. The problem is that he is paid 2.33/year (presumably on the basis of his previous 20 goal seasons). I expect there will be other teams willing to pay him at around his current level on the assumption that he can produce more offensively than he has with us, and that he will leave after next year (he is still under contract until 2014). That is possibly a good risk for a low payroll team in that his downside is you get a durable, heart-and-soul guy who is great on the PK and brings it even more in the playoffs, and even though his offensive numbers are low he does produce glimpses of being able to score.

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05-17-2013, 12:36 PM
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coldsteelonice84
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I'd like to keep him as a 4th liner. However, we'll probably need the room and he is a luxury so he would go, I think BWC nailed it, 3rd rounder or decent prospect. Or a goalie, that could work out well too.

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05-17-2013, 12:36 PM
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Sevanston
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With the cap going down, it's hard to see Frolik coming back next year.

But I'd love to keep him. All-effort player who is solid in every aspect except scoring.

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05-17-2013, 01:06 PM
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Double Dion
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Cool, that's kind of how I see him too. Valuable in the two-way game, paid a bit too much given his role. I'd obviously be hoping there is some offensive upside there given the depth in front of him in the Hawks organization. We have lots of NCAA prospects, the only one I wouldn't move for him is Gaudreau. That leaves Arnold (projects as a defensive forward with strong physical play, little offensive upside), Agostino (2nd/3rd line tweener with offensive upside), Ramage (bottom pairing physical guy, don't see him in the NHL honestly), Hanowski (3rd liners with scoring touch and physicality, kind of slow though) and Jon Gilles (probably the best goalie in college hockey right now). I'm not sure Gilles would be available straight up for Frolik, but I'd do any of the others or the 3rd round pick you guys thought was close.

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05-17-2013, 01:08 PM
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Sarava
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I would think the Hawks would prefer a pick over a prospect. The Hawks have a no 2nd or 3rd in this draft, and there's a bit of a logjam for prospects that are closer to being NHL ready.

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05-17-2013, 01:13 PM
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Tone King
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I would like him to stay. And I was his biggest critic. He has accepted his role and is a great PK 4th liner. But his is a luxury and would be a 3rd liner on most other teams.

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05-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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HockeySensible
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Yeah, there's no scenario in which Frolik doesn't get moved in the summer. He's too expensive to be a 4th liner going ahead.

The Hawks would move him for a 3rd round pick in this draft. I can't see that team being Calgary though, given how they project for next year. They need to keep their picks, for this year and going forward.

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05-17-2013, 02:04 PM
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coldsteelonice84
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What if we lose Stalberg AND BB? I say keep him around in that case. I don't see us spending money on a meaningful free agent so no point in shipping him off just so Wirtz can buy a few more fabergé eggs.

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05-17-2013, 02:07 PM
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Like I said in another thread, trade him for whatever you can get for him.

He does what a 900k player can do, and his role on the PK is great, but is quite a bit over exaggerated by some on this board. He is not THE reason why our Pk is so good, that belongs to the coaches system and Crawford/Emery being much improved.

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05-17-2013, 02:07 PM
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ChiGuySez
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Frolik has been a plus penalty kill player. Offensive numbers are down because of that role but his skating and defense are excellent. Id say 2nd line on many teams. Depends on forward depth.

Hawks would take picks like a 2nd +, something along those lines. Dont really need prospects unless its an upgrade to what we have in the system already.

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05-17-2013, 02:33 PM
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Double Dion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Frolik has been a plus penalty kill player. Offensive numbers are down because of that role but his skating and defense are excellent. Id say 2nd line on many teams. Depends on forward depth.

Hawks would take picks like a 2nd +, something along those lines. Dont really need prospects unless its an upgrade to what we have in the system already.
I definitely don't see him on a 2nd line even with a bottom feeder like my team. We have Glencross, Hudler, Tanguay, Cammalleri and Stempniak who would all slot in ahead of him and the possibility of Bartschi doing so as well. He'd be a 3rd/4th liner even for us. I wouldn't give up a 2nd for him. Heck, a Flames second would be the 36th pick in the draft. I don't think he'd be worth that. The 66th pick in close enough in value IMO giving the contract being about a million too much. I get there might be upside there, which is why I'd be interested, but there is no guarantee he'd be anything more than a defensive/PK type of guy. You don't trade a top 40 pick for that, especially since he's somewhat overpaid.

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05-17-2013, 02:36 PM
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Sevanston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Cool, that's kind of how I see him too. Valuable in the two-way game, paid a bit too much given his role. I'd obviously be hoping there is some offensive upside there given the depth in front of him in the Hawks organization. We have lots of NCAA prospects, the only one I wouldn't move for him is Gaudreau. That leaves Arnold (projects as a defensive forward with strong physical play, little offensive upside), Agostino (2nd/3rd line tweener with offensive upside), Ramage (bottom pairing physical guy, don't see him in the NHL honestly), Hanowski (3rd liners with scoring touch and physicality, kind of slow though) and Jon Gilles (probably the best goalie in college hockey right now). I'm not sure Gilles would be available straight up for Frolik, but I'd do any of the others or the 3rd round pick you guys thought was close.
I would take Bill Arnold for Frolik. Maybe add a late pick.

I loved Arnold's two-way play for BC this year. He also has good chemistry with K.Hayes.

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05-17-2013, 02:38 PM
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Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
I would take Bill Arnold for Frolik. Maybe add a late pick.

I loved Arnold's two-way play for BC this year. He also has good chemistry with K.Hayes.
I like Arnold too, but he projects as what Frolik already is so I'd do that. He won't score much, but he'll do everything else pretty well I think. Arnold and a 5th would be fair IMO.

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05-17-2013, 02:41 PM
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HockeySensible
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I would do Bill Arnold straight up for Frolik. I love his game.

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05-17-2013, 02:54 PM
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ChiGuySez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I definitely don't see him on a 2nd line even with a bottom feeder like my team. We have Glencross, Hudler, Tanguay, Cammalleri and Stempniak who would all slot in ahead of him and the possibility of Bartschi doing so as well. He'd be a 3rd/4th liner even for us. I wouldn't give up a 2nd for him. Heck, a Flames second would be the 36th pick in the draft. I don't think he'd be worth that. The 66th pick in close enough in value IMO giving the contract being about a million too much. I get there might be upside there, which is why I'd be interested, but there is no guarantee he'd be anything more than a defensive/PK type of guy. You don't trade a top 40 pick for that, especially since he's somewhat overpaid.
Your valuation of 2nd round picks is high. The attrit rate for each successive pick even going from the lower half of the first round grows exponentially. Frolik is a proven player versus a future (even a 36th pick) who may or may not make it. That said, if the Flames wouldnt be willing to trade a second, the Hawks most likely would have little interest.

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05-17-2013, 03:16 PM
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Double Dion
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Your valuation of 2nd round picks is high. The attrit rate for each successive pick even going from the lower half of the first round grows exponentially. Frolik is a proven player versus a future (even a 36th pick) who may or may not make it. That said, if the Flames wouldnt be willing to trade a second, the Hawks most likely would have little interest.
The rest of your fellow fans seem to disagree with you. Everyone has their opinion, but a comparable for Frolik is the Higgins trade for Oberg who was a B/C level type prospect. Higgins is a very similar player to Frolik in the defensive game and had similar offensive upside at the time.

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05-17-2013, 03:17 PM
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Double Dion
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Your valuation of 2nd round picks is high. The attrit rate for each successive pick even going from the lower half of the first round grows exponentially. Frolik is a proven player versus a future (even a 36th pick) who may or may not make it. That said, if the Flames wouldnt be willing to trade a second, the Hawks most likely would have little interest.
Also, our 2nd would be 6 spots behind where you're likely to draft in the 1st round. A 2013 2nd rounder in a draft that goes 50 deep has more value to me that a 28th overall would have in 2012.

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05-17-2013, 03:44 PM
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Tone King
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I like Arnold too, but he projects as what Frolik already is so I'd do that. He won't score much, but he'll do everything else pretty well I think. Arnold and a 5th would be fair IMO.
I would do that. Both parties would win.

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05-17-2013, 04:30 PM
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Oh_so_saad
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i would like to keep bickell and frolik over stalberg alone

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05-18-2013, 02:31 PM
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Bubba88
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Not sure about the guys we could replace him with. His contract sucks but he isn't a waste of a roster spot. I think they want to keep him if they can

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05-18-2013, 09:20 PM
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Far from a waste, but he's offensively limited and doesn't do anything that can't be replaced at half the cost.

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05-18-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Most Hawk fans probably would prefer to trade him given his cap hit and lack of offensive production

But he has become our best PK forward and IMO should be back next year so him and Kruger can continue to be the best PK duo up front in league (IMO)

If Hawks did move him at this point it would probably be for a prospect (NCAA likely as Bowman seems to like NCAA or USHL route) or solid draft pick (3rd rounder or so)
Talk about exaggeration......wow. Best PK forward? Best PK duo in the league? They're not even the best on their own team.... Give your head a shake.

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