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05-20-2013, 02:30 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
The way Darcy worded his comments this morning sure made it sound like he thinks they can move up.
I'm sure he thinks he can.

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05-20-2013, 02:38 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Pretend you are Dale Tallon. You have one of the best stables of prospects among any NHL teams. You're near the start of the building curve, having just had a disasterous season of injury to key personnel. You have a very good prospect big center in Nick Bjugstad turning pro, but your long-time Mr. Everything Stephen Weiss looks like the best of a bad lot of UFA's this summer and seems destined for other employment. You have a fine scoring LW in rookie Huberdeau. What you need is ANOTHER stud center, and having one with a complete 200' game who is also an excellent skater would be ideal to either center Huberdeau or to build another line around. You already have more Cup rings in your room than most o f the teams struggling at this end of the draft -- Campbell, Versteeg, Kopecky -- and no issue finding vets in free agency to fill out roster positions.

What do you need more? 7 years at minimum of the stud center or 1 year of a scoring line winger? It isn't vet presence you need. It's health and someone else to play down the middle with Weiss leaving.

Yeah, I can't retort that. I can point out though that Wiess leaving doesn't necessarily translate into MacKinnon being the needed replacement. Matt Cullen, for instance, would serve the same purpose as Wiess, and isn't a rookie.

Since that was a good read, I want YOU to pretend your Darcy Regier. What's our path? Because while you make more good points than I for Florida keeping the pick, that doesn't mean Darcy shouldn't/isn't trying to sell whatever he can to get to 2.

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05-20-2013, 02:57 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DYaeger89 View Post
Yeah, I can't retort that. I can point out though that Wiess leaving doesn't necessarily translate into MacKinnon being the needed replacement. Matt Cullen, for instance, would serve the same purpose as Wiess, and isn't a rookie.

Since that was a good read, I want YOU to pretend your Darcy Regier. What's our path? Because while you make more good points than I for Florida keeping the pick, that doesn't mean Darcy shouldn't/isn't trying to sell whatever he can to get to 2.
I can't make a good case for getting up to #2 as Regier.

#4? I'd be on the phone every day with Poile until he number blocks me. I'd be offering up Vanek at half salary and #8, probably unwilling to put in the piece that's needed to get the deal done since Poile would need to have his socks blown off to give up the stud, big center he's never had in his stable since coming to Nashville. So that's Vanek at half-salary, #8, and say the option to swap 1sts next year/a grande latte full of rufinol to get Barkov.

IMO, Poile would have to be lit to make the deal.

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05-20-2013, 02:58 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I'm sure he thinks he can.
I'm sure he has a pretty good sense of whether or not it's possible at this point. And if he didn't think it were possible, it certainly wouldn't suit his interest (as an already unpopular GM) to trump up false expectations only to let fans down later.

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05-20-2013, 03:00 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by AirBriere48 View Post
I'm sure he has a pretty good sense of whether or not it's possible at this point. And if he didn't think it were possible, it certainly wouldn't suit his interest (as an already unpopular GM) to trump up false expectations only to let fans down later.
He's said similar things in the past about trades only to point to market forces and other limp-wristed excuse making. I'd happily be surprised this year, but I'm not expecting it without the deal hurting in a way I just don't want to fathom.

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05-20-2013, 03:03 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBriere48 View Post
I'm sure he has a pretty good sense of whether or not it's possible at this point. And if he didn't think it were possible, it certainly wouldn't suit his interest (as an already unpopular GM) to trump up false expectations only to let fans down later.
That's how I see it. Darcy is usually very careful about how he chooses his words.

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05-20-2013, 03:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I can't make a good case for getting up to #2 as Regier.

#4? I'd be on the phone every day with Poile until he number blocks me. I'd be offering up Vanek at half salary and #8, probably unwilling to put in the piece that's needed to get the deal done since Poile would need to have his socks blown off to give up the stud, big center he's never had in his stable since coming to Nashville. So that's Vanek at half-salary, #8, and say the option to swap 1sts next year/a grande latte full of rufinol to get Barkov.

IMO, Poile would have to be lit to make the deal.
If you can't, then its overpayment.

1-8,2-38,ennis/larsson,vanek for 1-2 ?? We still add?

Yeah, the more of MacKinnon I watch, the more I think he's 100% what buffalo wants to find asap. That-guy.

Barkov's an incredible talent too, and I'm all for moving up for him, but epsc. after hearing Darcy this morning, I gotta think even he thinks MacKinnon's the guy.

No draft picks a sure thing, but for a crosby-lite? yeah, I'd be tempted to sell the boat for sure. Especially given that the boat most likely wouldnt contain the guys we're using to build our new identity (tough,working team: ott,foligno,girgensons,tropp,etc)

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05-20-2013, 03:06 PM
  #58
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That's why I've been thinking instead of Vanek offer Hodgson to Florida. Mackinnon, Grigorenko, Girgensons, Larsson, Porter, and possibly in a pinch Ennis/Foligno/Ott could play center in the near future. In no way is Hodgson a problem or trade bait but Mackinnon is obviously an upgrade at a crucial position. Fill out the wings with Vanek/Ennis/Armia/Foligno/Ott/Leino/Staff/Tropp/Flynn or whoever else we may draft or emerges. Something like #8, Hodgson, and # 38?

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05-20-2013, 03:11 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by DYaeger89 View Post
If you can't, then its overpayment.

1-8,2-38,ennis/larsson,vanek for 1-2 ?? We still add?

Yeah, the more of MacKinnon I watch, the more I think he's 100% what buffalo wants to find asap. That-guy.

Barkov's an incredible talent too, and I'm all for moving up for him, but epsc. after hearing Darcy this morning, I gotta think even he thinks MacKinnon's the guy.

No draft picks a sure thing, but for a crosby-lite? yeah, I'd be tempted to sell the boat for sure. Especially given that the boat most likely wouldnt contain the guys we're using to build our new identity (tough,working team: ott,foligno,girgensons,tropp,etc)
He's been the guy I've wanted all year. Not happening. They won some battles no one thought they would and won't have a shot at moving up for MacKinnon or taking Barkov if they were at #4. If Buffalo was sitting at #4, they're looking at the stud, complete player OR the option to slip up to 2 with someone like Vanek or #16 to get the other stud complete center. At 8? They're ****ed.

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05-20-2013, 03:19 PM
  #60
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Mackinnon is going to be a special player. I want him more than anything. IMO he will by far the best player in this draft.

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05-20-2013, 03:21 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
He's been the guy I've wanted all year. Not happening. They won some battles no one thought they would and won't have a shot at moving up for MacKinnon or taking Barkov if they were at #4. If Buffalo was sitting at #4, they're looking at the stud, complete player OR the option to slip up to 2 with someone like Vanek or #16 to get the other stud complete center. At 8? They're ****ed.
Not for an RGIII-eske return.

Using your explanation for Tallon, yeah, Vanek for 1-year isn't putting me over the top now, so I concur.

However, moving 6 spots back for Vanek, Ennis/Larsson, and a 2nd to boot means they fill that center spot and can draft a dman instead (Which, prior to the lottery, they wanted to do in drafting Seth Jones).

MacKinnon vs. Vanek,Ennis/Larsson,2-38,and one of Lindholm/Monahan/Ristolainen/Nurse ??


I'd try to hold onto Hodgson and Myers, but I'd do what it takes to get MacKinnon. He's a franchise guy and the Sabres will be a faceless franchise once Miller and Vanek are gone.


(In a few days, I'll settle back to where I was, trading up for Barkov or Monahan, or staying put, but for now, I'm fighting for MacKinnon)

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05-20-2013, 03:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Mackinnon is going to be a special player. I want him more than anything. IMO he will by far the best player in this draft.
You and 28 other teams. And that's precisely why Florida is going to keep the pick and take MacKinnon.

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05-20-2013, 03:28 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
You and 28 other teams. And that's precisely why Florida is going to keep the pick and take MacKinnon.
I know I know. One can pray and hope right?

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05-20-2013, 03:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I don't see 1 year of Miller or Vanek having the value in futures to move up for the teams selecting ahead of them. If someone breaks with preceived value and makes the deal with Regier, fine. But it doesn't seem all that likely.
How does Florida feel about their goaltending situation?

IMO I would be willing to give up whomever in the following package of Below:

(Pick one from each line)
Miller or Vanek - Big Piece
8th or 16th - Draft Pick
Hodgson or Ennis - top 6 Forward
Sekera or Mcnabb - Young Defenseman

for

2nd Overall
2nd Round Pick (32nd)
Conditional 1st in 2014 if Miller or Vanek re-signs (5th Round in 2014 draft pick otherwise)

Of Course we would eat some of the salary of Miller or Vanek that maybe the hit Buffalo might need to take.

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05-20-2013, 03:32 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by OkimLom View Post
I think 8th overall + Vanek + 2nd Round(38th) is something that would entice Florida more than the 2nd Round(53rd) pick.

Seeing how strong this draft is, I think it means Quality of pick weighs more than the quantity. Florida would then have 8th, 32nd(?), and 38th for a very deep draft.


yea, Florida is going to move out of an elite draft pick.... for 1 year of Vanek and a 2nd rounder....

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05-20-2013, 03:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by OkimLom View Post
How does Florida feel about their goaltending situation?

IMO I would be willing to give up whomever in the following package of Below:

(Pick one from each line)
Miller or Vanek - Big Piece
8th or 16th - Draft Pick
Hodgson or Ennis - top 6 Forward
Sekera or Mcnabb - Young Defenseman

for

2nd Overall
2nd Round Pick (32nd)
Conditional 1st in 2014 if Miller re-signs (5th Round in 2014 draft pick otherwise)

Of Course we would eat some of the salary of Miller or Vanek that maybe the hit Buffalo might need to take.
They have a phenominal talent in youngster Markstrom. They have no need for Miller.

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05-20-2013, 03:37 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by DYaeger89 View Post
Not for an RGIII-eske return.

Using your explanation for Tallon, yeah, Vanek for 1-year isn't putting me over the top now, so I concur.

However, moving 6 spots back for Vanek, Ennis/Larsson, and a 2nd to boot means they fill that center spot and can draft a dman instead (Which, prior to the lottery, they wanted to do in drafting Seth Jones).

MacKinnon vs. Vanek,Ennis/Larsson,2-38,and one of Lindholm/Monahan/Ristolainen/Nurse ??


I'd try to hold onto Hodgson and Myers, but I'd do what it takes to get MacKinnon. He's a franchise guy and the Sabres will be a faceless franchise once Miller and Vanek are gone.


(In a few days, I'll settle back to where I was, trading up for Barkov or Monahan, or staying put, but for now, I'm fighting for MacKinnon)

Here's how to tell if the offer for #2 Mackinnon is even in the ball park. ASk yourself, if you'd make the deal (the one you are offering). If you immediately say YES!!!!, without any hesitation... then the offer isn't remotely good enough.

Instead, come up with a HUGE package of assets, that you feel uncomfortable offering... and then you are probably getting closer

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05-20-2013, 03:37 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post


yea, Florida is going to move out of an elite draft pick.... for 1 year of Vanek and a 2nd rounder....
Vanek, 8th, 16th?

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05-20-2013, 03:47 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Vanek, 8th, 16th?
I think Vanek has little trade value in this equation....

a 2nd tier and 3rd tier 1st round prospect, and 1 year of Vanek for one of the best prospects of the decade?

It's just not even close... you have to over pay... and over pay by so much that it looks retarded on paper.... you have to essentially stock their franchise for the next decade to get them to pass on a total franchise player.

this will look stupid.... and that's the point

8th, 16th, 55th, 2014 1st, 2014 2nd, Hodgson, Armia

maybe.... maybe they'd listen....

you just don't trade out of a franchise player

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05-20-2013, 04:00 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Here's how to tell if the offer for #2 Mackinnon is even in the ball park. ASk yourself, if you'd make the deal (the one you are offering). If you immediately say YES!!!!, without any hesitation... then the offer isn't remotely good enough.

Instead, come up with a HUGE package of assets, that you feel uncomfortable offering... and then you are probably getting closer
Assuming I'm rooting for Florida...

Hodgson,Myers,1-8,McNabb

probably does it (1-2 only, no adds)

2-38 could be added by buffalo by sweeten it.

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05-20-2013, 04:01 PM
  #71
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They aren't trading #2

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05-20-2013, 04:01 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Can we keep this thread about prospects so we don't need to scroll through 15 trade proposals? Or am I the only one sick of seeing Vanek + 8 proposals?

You want MacKinnon? Your looking at multiple first rounds picks, bluechip prospects young high end players ect

We are not getting MacKinnon, that's the reality.

Moving up probably means getting up to #5 or #4 if we are very luckly, but we will probably just be picking #8 anyway
Fair enough. Where do random trade proposals go within the Buffalo boards? Roster-building thread? (No sarcasm)

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05-20-2013, 04:07 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by DYaeger89 View Post
Fair enough. Where do random trade proposals go within the Buffalo boards? Roster-building thread? (No sarcasm)
That's probably the best thread for it

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05-20-2013, 04:07 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DYaeger89 View Post
Fair enough. Where do random trade proposals go within the Buffalo boards? Roster-building thread? (No sarcasm)
I have no idea, I think they could almost just have a thread for it alone.

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05-20-2013, 04:13 PM
  #75
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Am I the only one who thinks Colorado will take him over Jones? Colorado would have Duchene/MacKinnon/Stastny/ROR. That is the best center line up in the league. If they need a impact defensemen they could trade Stastny or ROR for that. If we want Mackinnon I believe we have to move up to one and make it worth while to the Avs.

something like 8,16,Ennis,Sekera 2014 2nd? Maybe Miller? Varlamov has stumbled.

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