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05-21-2013, 12:30 AM
  #126
Shoey
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you may note that I did not include the 2014 1st, that's because in sell everything mode my main goal for this upcoming season is to be absolutely god-awful and score the #1 overall pick.

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05-21-2013, 12:30 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I'm not even joking when I would say that I would offer the following package without blinking.

Hodgson (50% salary)
Vanek (50% salary)
Myers (50% salary)
Armia
Larsson
Pysyk
McCabe
2013 1st (8)
2013 1st (16)
2013 2nd (38)
2013 2nd (53)

give them everything, if he's the guy that can turn your franchise around he's worth it.
that's probably the most stupid offer I've ever seen. McKinnon may become a franchise center but that package is just riddiclous.

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Old
05-21-2013, 12:30 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I'm not even joking when I would say that I would offer the following package without blinking.

Hodgson (50% salary)
Vanek (50% salary)
Myers (50% salary)
Armia
Larsson
Pysyk
McCabe
2013 1st (8)
2013 1st (16)
2013 2nd (38)
2013 2nd (53)
2013 3rd (69)
2014 2nd
2014 2nd (from Minnesota)

give them everything, if he's the guy that can turn your franchise around he's worth it.
You'd completely gut our franchise for one player? I wouldn't even trade all of that for Crosby

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Old
05-21-2013, 12:43 AM
  #129
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yes, I would.

a franchise centerman is everything, if you're not trying to get one... you're not trying.

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Old
05-21-2013, 12:46 AM
  #130
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furthermore I think Florida would be insane to accept that offer.

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Old
05-21-2013, 12:48 AM
  #131
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That's terrible.

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05-21-2013, 12:50 AM
  #132
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furthermore I think Florida would be insane to accept that offer.
Oh this should be rich... Please explain.


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05-21-2013, 12:56 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
yes, I would.

a franchise centerman is everything, if you're not trying to get one... you're not trying.
Nothing is everything... that trade would destroy the franchise. They have a better chance of acquiring a franchise center by any other means -- even solely with those picks in the offer -- than they would at fielding a competitive team for MacKinnon to be the franchise center of.

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Old
05-21-2013, 12:58 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I'm not even joking when I would say that I would offer the following package without blinking.

Hodgson (50% salary)
Vanek (50% salary)
Myers (50% salary)
Armia
Larsson
Pysyk
McCabe
2013 1st (8)
2013 1st (16)
2013 2nd (38)
2013 2nd (53)
2013 3rd (69)
2014 2nd
2014 2nd (from Minnesota)

give them everything, if he's the guy that can turn your franchise around he's worth it.

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Old
05-21-2013, 01:16 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I'm not even joking when I would say that I would offer the following package without blinking.

Hodgson (50% salary)
Vanek (50% salary)
Myers (50% salary)
Armia
Larsson
Pysyk
McCabe
2013 1st (8)
2013 1st (16)
2013 2nd (38)
2013 2nd (53)
2013 3rd (69)
2014 2nd
2014 2nd (from Minnesota)

give them everything, if he's the guy that can turn your franchise around he's worth it.
You can't be serious...

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Old
05-21-2013, 01:40 AM
  #136
Shoey
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It's a bad deal for Florida because my philosophy is that I wouldn't trade a potential superstar like Nathan MacKinnon for anything if I was in their position.

I'm well aware the philosophy of completely gutting a team in order to get a franchise centerpiece isn't going to sit well with a lot of people. This is the only move of this nature you make, the rest of my future moves in my cold and calculated approach would be to sell off anyone of value from the old core for young players with potential. To build around the remaining young players in the organization like Grigorenko, Girgensons, Tropp, Ruhwedel, and McNabb and allow them to grow together.

After I've made a move like this I can begin the process of stockpiling picks and acquiring young futures, but before I've got my franchise center that's not an approach I care to take because I ultimately believe it to be one that will not end with a Stanley Cup victory.

It's a colossal overpayment in every true sense of the word, but it's a trade I make specifically because the team will likely be bad for 3 years after and great for the next 10. It's a belief that you can replace every roster player and prospect on that list in time but you cannot acquire a franchise center anywhere but at the top of a draft.

I expected to be called a lunatic, and I'm fine with it.


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Old
05-21-2013, 06:57 AM
  #137
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Again, as its been brought up, I just don't think that Florida's the team to attempt a trade with. We'd pay less (albeit, still a massive amount) to Colorado, and ensure MK with the 1st overall.

People(Buffalo management) just has to be cool with losing Myers, a couple firsts and seconds, and 2-3 of our young players(or 2 and vanek) for 1 guy.

I've watched the one guy play enough this year (including both tourny games thus far). Sold. That speed,skill,shot,presence, and two-way-game aren't found in a single player often. I hope/think Darcy sees this too.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:10 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
It's a bad deal for Florida because my philosophy is that I wouldn't trade a potential superstar like Nathan MacKinnon for anything if I was in their position.

I'm well aware the philosophy of completely gutting a team in order to get a franchise centerpiece isn't going to sit well with a lot of people. This is the only move of this nature you make, the rest of my future moves in my cold and calculated approach would be to sell off anyone of value from the old core for young players with potential. To build around the remaining young players in the organization like Grigorenko, Girgensons, Tropp, Ruhwedel, and McNabb and allow them to grow together.

After I've made a move like this I can begin the process of stockpiling picks and acquiring young futures, but before I've got my franchise center that's not an approach I care to take because I ultimately believe it to be one that will not end with a Stanley Cup victory.

It's a colossal overpayment in every true sense of the word, but it's a trade I make specifically because the team will likely be bad for 3 years after and great for the next 10. It's a belief that you can replace every roster player and prospect on that list in time but you cannot acquire a franchise center anywhere but at the top of a draft.

I expected to be called a lunatic, and I'm fine with it.



Truth

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:13 AM
  #139
Thorton02
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Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
yes, I would.

a franchise centerman is everything, if you're not trying to get one... you're not trying.
..and while you're waiting 7 years to replenish your stock and get quality players along side Mackinnon, he's left via free agency because he's sick of being on a loosing team.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:23 AM
  #140
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Staying the course and being bad the next two years could very well land them in the neighborhood to draft their own franchise type center. Just a thought.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:29 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Staying the course and being bad the next two years could very well land them in the neighborhood to draft their own franchise type center. Just a thought.
A thought I've thought as well. The one problem I have with this is the Buffalo Team Propensity™. Never good enough to win #1 and never bad enough to pick #1.

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Old
05-21-2013, 07:35 AM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I'm not even joking when I would say that I would offer the following package without blinking.

Hodgson (50% salary)
Vanek (50% salary)
Myers (50% salary)
Armia
Larsson
Pysyk
McCabe
2013 1st (8)
2013 1st (16)
2013 2nd (38)
2013 2nd (53)
2013 3rd (69)
2014 2nd
2014 2nd (from Minnesota)

give them everything, if he's the guy that can turn your franchise around he's worth it.
That's more than Lindros got in trade:
Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Ron Hextall, Peter Forsberg, Steve Duchesne, future considerations, round 1 pick in the 1993 draft, round 1 pick in the 1994 draft and cash.

Philly contended, but never won the Cup like Colorado did.


Last edited by Jacob582: 05-21-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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Old
05-21-2013, 07:36 AM
  #143
Chainshot
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Originally Posted by DYaeger89 View Post
A thought I've thought as well. The one problem I have with this is the Buffalo Team Propensity™. Never good enough to win #1 and never bad enough to pick #1.
Deal Vanek, Stafford, and Miller; forcefeed minutes to kids as on-the-job training; make moves purely for the future -- all would put this team right to the bottom of the standings for at least this year, if not next.

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05-21-2013, 08:14 AM
  #144
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After listening to Chainshot, and whiteboarding a few things.

I think an attempt to trade to Colorado is the best idea.

our 1st and 2 of myers/mcnabb/pysyk is probably the base.

miller reduced salary could play, but it wouldnt be good for us, as he'll be on addon in the deal so we could keep someone else, and he'd probably fetch more solo to a goalie-needing team.

our 1-16 and a 2nd in 2013 or 2014 will continue the progression.

the over-the-top-piece would likely be one of miller-reduced sal or vanek reduced-sal (if they wanted them only), ennis, hodgson, or grigorenko.

So,

1-8,Myers,McNabb,1-16,2-2014,Ennis,Vanek-half sal

I'd say yes to that as Colorado probably even without Vanek.

Its over-the-top, but it nets us MacKinnon. Knowing Darcy, maybe he'll even same a piece out of that.

We still keep hodgson,grigs,girgs,larsson,mccabe,foligno and pysyk in this case. add mackinnon, we'd still draft in the 2nd twice.


Disclaimer: Speculation is in good fun. But I actually hope we go hard after MacKinnon for real.
I think Colorado is the team to Trade with:

Myers + Miller(retain 50% salary) + 8th overall

2nd OVerall

I wouldn't even blink.

Next year, make moves for the future, and "Be Bad of Ekblad"

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:16 AM
  #145
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..and while you're waiting 7 years to replenish your stock and get quality players along side Mackinnon, he's left via free agency because he's sick of being on a loosing team.
or...

while he's developing Pegula Bucks starts building a team around a young franchise centermen.

Not to mention the picks that can/will be replenished over the years via trade deadline maneuvers

I would definitely go all in on Mackinnon... there's a misconception that the sheer quantity of young talent the Sabres will have/will acquired over 2012-2014 drafts will be a better path to franchise success than a true franchise center.

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05-21-2013, 08:19 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I'm not even joking when I would say that I would offer the following package without blinking.

Hodgson (50% salary)
Vanek (50% salary)
Myers (50% salary)
Armia
Larsson
Pysyk
McCabe
2013 1st (8)
2013 1st (16)
2013 2nd (38)
2013 2nd (53)
2013 3rd (69)
2014 2nd
2014 2nd (from Minnesota)

give them everything, if he's the guy that can turn your franchise around he's worth it.
On the plus side, this trade would give us about a ~25% chance to get Ekblad next year

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Old
05-21-2013, 08:28 AM
  #147
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..and while you're waiting 7 years to replenish your stock and get quality players along side Mackinnon, he's left via free agency because he's sick of being on a loosing team.
Pascal Dupius and Chris Kunitz are noted as being the two most-often linemates of one, Sidney Crosby. Both are actually undrafted guys, and look at how well Kunitz did this year.

It's a dice roll, no doubt, just like every hockey decision. But MacKinnon is worth it IMO. Unless McDavid continues his path, this may be the best guy we'll get a crack at for a while.

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05-21-2013, 08:54 AM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoey View Post
I'm not even joking when I would say that I would offer the following package without blinking.

Hodgson (50% salary)
Vanek (50% salary)
Myers (50% salary)

Armia
Larsson
Pysyk
McCabe
2013 1st (8)
2013 1st (16)
2013 2nd (38)
2013 2nd (53)
2013 3rd (69)
2014 2nd
2014 2nd (from Minnesota)

give them everything, if he's the guy that can turn your franchise around he's worth it.
Can't do that. The CBA permits retaining salary on a maximum of three players in a given season. These three plus the freight we're paying on Pominville would make four.

In any event, why not just keep all or most of those assets, trade off Miller and Vanek for more futures that won't help in the next 1-2 years, and get your 1C or Ekblad in the top-5 next year, and then compete for McDavid, who will be better than MacKinnon, in the 2015 Draft.

Don't rush the suffering. Let it breathe.

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05-21-2013, 09:13 AM
  #149
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Call me crazy, I think Florida takes Drouin.

Huberdeau, Grimaldi, Bjugstad, Shore, Rau, Trochek.

They are solid at center. They need a top flight goal scorer like Drouin on Hubers wing. Howden is their only Wing prospect with any promis and he is most likely a 2nd line guy.

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05-21-2013, 09:18 AM
  #150
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Call me crazy, I think Florida takes Drouin.

Huberdeau, Grimaldi, Bjugstad, Shore, Rau, Trochek.

They are solid at center. They need a top flight goal scorer like Drouin on Hubers wing. Howden is their only Wing prospect with any promis and he is most likely a 2nd line guy.
Florida definitely goes MacKinnon. At this point, I'm not entirely sure Colorado doesn't also consider it despite their d-need...

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