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Old
09-24-2003, 12:18 PM
  #1
Waveburner
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Denis Shvidki

I know his name has been brought up before...well, he is on waivers-so Burke can have him for free if he wants to take a chance...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/h...ports-panthers

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09-24-2003, 12:24 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
I know his name has been brought up before...well, he is on waivers-so Burke can have him for free if he wants to take a chance...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/h...ports-panthers
As much as I would like BUrke to take a shot at him on waivers I doubt that he will and there are a number of reasons for this, chief among him, I dopn't think the Nux scouts have ever liked him. In addition, it is likely that Shvidki would at some point in the season be sent down anyways and as a result have to be put on waivers again, unless the Nux were able to wait until he clears and then trade for him. I think that is exactly the strategy the Panthers thought they would follow with Shvidki as he makes less than a quarter of his NHL salary in the minors. IN the middle of traiing camp I think it also sends the wrong message to Cancuks prospects and will also probably irritate Cooke, who makes less than half of what Shvidki does. I would do it in Burke's position after he clears waivers, but I am no Burke, and he is no Shvidki fan.

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09-24-2003, 12:39 PM
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Seems like a great opportunity for some team to take a flyer on a guy with a lot of upside. For the Canucks though, given that he's got a pretty big salary and no really place on our NHL roster it seems like a bad fit. Given that Keenan is the one sending him down, there's a prety good chance he could respond in a different setting.

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09-24-2003, 01:22 PM
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Where are all the posters which wanted the Canucks to give up something (some said Sopel) to get this guy. Many on this board highly overrated Shiviki.

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09-24-2003, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown
Where are all the posters which wanted the Canucks to give up something (some said Sopel) to get this guy. Many on this board highly overrated Shiviki.

I don't think they overrated Shvidki at all. I think years from now Keenan will recieve the same criticism over his handling of Shvidki that he now gets over his handling of Naslund. Seriously, this guy can play.

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09-24-2003, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by orcatown
Where are all the posters which wanted the Canucks to give up something (some said Sopel) to get this guy. Many on this board highly overrated Shiviki.
I have been the biggest proponent of going after Shvidki since before the 99 draft. I have not changed my tune whatsoever. I also NEVER mentioned trading Sopel for him. Must be someone else. Like I said...I would do it, Burke will not.

What is your definition of overrate? If you think suggesting the guy has the upside to be a top 2 line winger is overrating, then I am guilty. I never said he IS a second liner I said he COULD BE. He is a lottery ticket a la Naslund, Whitney and so many others that have been dumped early when they struggled. He has ALL the skills needed to be a very good second liner. He has far more talent than the Sedins but is missing some of the intagibles it seems. I cannot understand what the problem is. Coachable kid, good attitude for the most part, as skilled as Fedor for sure, I don't know why it is not working out for him. Someone is going to find out. I cannot see Nashville passing on him, maybe even Chicago would be interested.

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Old
09-24-2003, 02:55 PM
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The question is do the you want to see the canucks burn a roster spot for 30 days from the start of the season on him? That's what the real question is as if they pick him up he has to remain on the canucks roster for 30 days before they can waive him to send him down or trade him. I think the organization has enough projects to use that roster spot on for 30 days.

Talented or not he has just been cut very early in camp...that is not a good sign at all.

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09-24-2003, 02:59 PM
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I remember saying that I thought Florida would have jumped at the chance to get Peter Schaefer for Denis Shvidki and I got jumped all over.

What did this guy score like 6 goals last year in the AHL or something? BUST.

Keenan wasn't his coach there.

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum
The question is do the you want to see the canucks burn a roster spot for 30 days from the start of the season on him? That's what the real question is as if they pick him up he has to remain on the canucks roster for 30 days before they can waive him to send him down or trade him. I think the organization has enough projects to use that roster spot on for 30 days.

Talented or not he has just been cut very early in camp...that is not a good sign at all.
I'd have to agree that there's a half dozen prospects we have in our system that I'd like to see given a chance before a Florida castoff. A guy his age should fit right into their plans there. They are taking their time rebuilding, and it looks like they're doing it right. This should be the ideal situation for a young, talented player to develop at a good pace. If he can't make it on a young team like that, how's he supposed to do so with a team that is ready to compete *now*? We don't have any room for our own prospects.

I'd personally like to see Reid, Bouck, King, and Kesler (in that order) get a few games before any other prospects.

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:45 PM
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I'd love to see the nux pick him up.

Not sure what the rules are for if we'd have to protect him to send him down to the minors, but considering the lack of high-end talent we have in our system (a lot of grinder-type players), it would be worth the risk.

Sometimes players need a change of scenery to reach their potential.

I've also heard that Florida is one of the worst run franchises in the league (bad coaching, bad player management). So maybe this is rubbing off on him.

We could pick him up, send him to Manitoba for a 2-week "re-conditioning" stint, and see how he fares. If he doesn't impress, we put him back on waivers. If he does, Burke makes room for him.

My two cents.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum
The question is do the you want to see the canucks burn a roster spot for 30 days from the start of the season on him? That's what the real question is as if they pick him up he has to remain on the canucks roster for 30 days before they can waive him to send him down or trade him. I think the organization has enough projects to use that roster spot on for 30 days.

Talented or not he has just been cut very early in camp...that is not a good sign at all.
As always, Tantalum, well educated post.

Shvidki, weather he can play or not, will not be taken. Furthermore, if we did take him, we would have to find a player to take off the protected list, which could mean saying 'Bye-bye' to a player such as Jarkko Ruutu or Mats Lindgren.

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Old
09-24-2003, 04:30 PM
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My question is "What has Shiviki ever done to indicate that he is a top six forward"? I never saw him highly touted on other boards. But somehow on this board his name was always poping up as very highly rated prospect. I couldn't understand it then and don't now.

That he should be cut so early was absolutely predictable. Honestly the guy would have to fight to make the Moose.

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09-24-2003, 04:39 PM
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Shvidki would be a high risk, high reward type pick-up. Like tantalum stated, he would have to stay on the Canucks roster for 30 days, and I don't think the Canucks can utilize a roster spot with a player such as Shvidki. I can see a team starving for offensive players taking a chance on him. But his salary will scare a lot of teams off.

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown
My question is "What has Shiviki ever done to indicate that he is a top six forward"? I never saw him highly touted on other boards. But somehow on this board his name was always poping up as very highly rated prospect. I couldn't understand it then and don't now.

That he should be cut so early was absolutely predictable. Honestly the guy would have to fight to make the Moose.
I think the only reason he has been somewhat "touted" on this board is because he was the #1 prospect for the 1999 Draft at mid-season, if I recall correctly. That type of hype can stick with a player, even several years after the fact. Why do you think Daigle has no trouble getting teams to take a chance on him? Hell even Jason Bonsignore got a try out contract. I am not advocating getting Shvidki, but for another team, he is easily a worthwhile gamble...if we had not signed Arvedsson, I would be happy to see Burke take a flyer on him. However right now we have no roster space for the kid. He certainly doesn't seem like a Burke player, but then again, Fedor sure as hell is not either.

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09-25-2003, 08:09 AM
  #15
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I get more flak for suggesting Shvidki than any other player and have since 99. Then it was because Daniel and Henrik were on the board, I thoiught we were going to get the 5th to 10th pick and thought he would be an ideal pick (or Rita).

What has the kid ever done? Maybe if you guys watched him as closely as I did in Barrie or his first year in Florida you would know. He has all-world skill, very good size, good passing, good shooting, great skating....but possibly is lazy or has no heart, neither of which I beleive. Sounds a lot like the description of Naslund early on except Shvidki has better size. I am not basing my opnions on scouting reports or where he went in the draft. I am basing it on an asessment I have made and will continue to do so. He is a very worthy reclamation project with very little downside left. This is the kind of move that seperates really savvy GMs from risk averse ones. As I said before, there is no way Burke does it.

The fact is we need scoring and we cannot afford legitimate, proven scorers. Shvidki and guys like him that are 22 or 23 and still not great scorers is what this franchise has to look at. If he does not get picked on waivers, which I think is highly likely, I would call Dudley and ask him if he is interested at the end of October in a swap of minor leaguers (like Nathan Smith). That is the kind of deal Burke does with regularity (see Toronto deals) looking for a guy who needs a change of scenery. IMO Kris Beech is in the same boat in Pittsburgh and also could be had for a bargain.

It is funny, I have been suggesting the Smith/Shvidki swap for a year and a half, at first I was told by Nux fans and furious Panther fans that Florida would never do that trade, now Panther fans are calling the kid out and Canuck fans are petrified of losing the blue-chipper Smith.

You are all welcome to your opinion as I am to mine. Frankly I find it annoying or at least, dissapointing that every time a trade is proposed on the nux board all the people who disagree vehemently (and take on the GM persona....."We will NEVER make that deal") have to take the proposal as anything more than the idle chit chat of other avid fans. Do any of you think you actually know what player trade values really are? Do you know what is actually being discussed behind closed doors. There is not one person here who does, anywhere on these boards. No "insiders" or staff anywhere. So why not chill and enjoy the conversation...debate if you will, but the childishly emphatic, all-knowing crap is exactly that, crap. There has only been one Canuck trade that was accurately predicted in my entire time on HF Boards without the benefit of media reports. Salo for Scheafer. That's it. And I have been coming to this site since the 97-98 season. One trade. Clearly we should all should just relax.

I too have looked at our depth and started thinking ....maybe King willl make the team, maybe Reid will turn into a great right winger (and he might), maybe Fedor will get his head out of his ass, maybe Kesler can play this year, collectively you think one of these events would happen. I am not sure any of them will. I like the idea of another forward still and I think not making a move is reall going to hurt us this year. Not saying it needs to happen now, but Burke better not wait until the deadline. Not that many deadline acqusitions are effective in the same year for the acquiring team. Needs to be done by Christmas or there is no point. I am still going on the record as saying we will finish no higher than sixth this year without another scoring forward.

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Old
09-25-2003, 08:15 AM
  #16
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Shvidki will not last until our waiver spot regardless of whether or not we would pick him up. Teams lacking offensive skill like Columbus would be all over him.

 
Old
09-25-2003, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucks2001
Shvidki will not last until our waiver spot regardless of whether or not we would pick him up. Teams lacking offensive skill like Columbus would be all over him.
Yeah it is possible. I think he is alredy onwaivers and has not been selectde though and I think most teams realize that he nees to clear waivers once so they can pick him up and send him down again. This guy could fall prey to the Druken Holden Syndrome.

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09-25-2003, 12:31 PM
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The hype hasn't just been leftovers from 99 for this kid. The Hockey News's Florida beat writer is hyping him just this week, spotlighting him as the Panther's "Breakout Player": "Dangerous from any angle around the net."

A 21-year-old goalscoring RW available on waivers, hm. Yeah. Of course!

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09-25-2003, 12:43 PM
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what's the risk of grabbing him off waivers? I say give the kid a shot and see if he has any chemistry with our guys in preseason (*cough* sedins). If he doesn't perform leave him unprotected. The worst that happens is he goes and plays for the moose (im assuming he's on a two-way contract, if not that could be an issue). Seems like a low risk, high reward proposition. Maybe all he needs is a change of scenery. It's not exactly uncommon for skill players to struggle under Keanan.

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09-25-2003, 12:49 PM
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Don't you guys already have the under-achieving Fedor Fedorov? Why would you want his Czech counterpart?

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09-25-2003, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHBlain
Don't you guys already have the under-achieving Fedor Fedorov? Why would you want his Czech counterpart?
Upside...it's all about potential. The guy is only 22 years old. Why not take a shot at him? It's a win-win situation.

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09-25-2003, 01:09 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by TomHBlain
Don't you guys already have the under-achieving Fedor Fedorov? Why would you want his Czech counterpart?
Shvidki is Ukranian and plays for the Russian national teams.

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09-26-2003, 02:51 PM
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Ukrainian? OK, that's where the problem has been. The guy needs to come to Vancouver. If he lives in the West End he can eat at Hunky Bill's every day of the week. Sufficiently fortified with sausage and perogies, he can then assert himself better on the ice.

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09-26-2003, 03:33 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by EnergizerScotty
Upside...it's all about potential. The guy is only 22 years old. Why not take a shot at him? It's a win-win situation.
But it isn't. If it was a free pick up that you can discard immeidately fine but it isn't. Picking him up means another body to protect on the waiver list and having him occupy a roster spot for a minimum of 30 days. In the canucks case they would most likely have to waive someone to make room for him. That someone could very well be a Lindgren or Ruutu....who can in turn be picked up. Is it worth the risk of losing a player you KNOW fits with the team? That's the question that needs to be asked. Potential or not I don't think it is worth that risk.

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09-26-2003, 11:43 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by tantalum
But it isn't. If it was a free pick up that you can discard immeidately fine but it isn't. Picking him up means another body to protect on the waiver list and having him occupy a roster spot for a minimum of 30 days. In the canucks case they would most likely have to waive someone to make room for him. That someone could very well be a Lindgren or Ruutu....who can in turn be picked up. Is it worth the risk of losing a player you KNOW fits with the team? That's the question that needs to be asked. Potential or not I don't think it is worth that risk.
uhhhh....methinks you missed the point about picking him up if he clears waivers....which he very well might. Once he has cleared waivers we can send him down without losing him. He is on a 2 way contract and we would get a couple of months to see how he does in the minors. Having a guy like Shvidki kicking a round on a minor league salary for a year certainly would not hurt. He is better than any right winger in our system by a large margin IMO, including Reid (not including Kesler). He is a super-talent that may or may not realize his potential. As a team that will yet again have secondary scoring problems I would think it wise to explore all affordable options.

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