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All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V

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Old
05-26-2013, 07:18 AM
  #626
SnowblindNYR
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Not only do I think the personnel doesn't match Torts' style, I think Torts has an archaic pre-lockout style (if not before that). I don't think jam solely can win the cup in this league. You need to be able to lay different styles. Not to mention that his style is boring and killing hockey. I will throw a party the day he gets fired. It's a lot more complicated than this guy didn't get fired and neither did this guy.

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05-26-2013, 07:20 AM
  #627
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I keep reading Torts apologists say that management and fans overvalued the roster. Maybe if we had a better coach the roster would look a lot better.

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05-26-2013, 07:27 AM
  #628
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Flyers: Missed playoffs. Nobody saying fire Lavy. -Horrible Defense and Goaltending, he probably should go as that team hasn't been able to make it back to the ECF.

Devils: Missed playoffs. Nobody saying fire Deboer - No Brodeur/Kovalchuk for long stretches, relatively new coach.

Coyotes: Missed playoffs. Nobody saying fire Tippett - Has gotten that team to overachieve the past two seasons.

Predators: Missed playoffs. Nobody saying fire Trotz - Not sure what their issue was. Could be Trotz.

Blues: Lost in round 1. Nobody saying fire Hitchcock Two very strong regular seasons and has gone like 69-30-2 his first 1.5ish seasons.

Caps: Lost in round 1. Nobody saying fire Oates - First year coach.

Kings: Still alive.

Rangers Still alive.
My thoughts on those coaches, and the situations they found themselves in. But I'll give you another name Alain Vigneault, who couldn't get a talented team motivate and scoring.

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05-26-2013, 07:51 AM
  #629
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Perspective: Only two teams in the NHL have won at least one playoff round each of the last two years — the Kings and the Rangers.

That's a pretty surprising stat, eh?

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05-26-2013, 08:14 AM
  #630
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Perspective: Only two teams in the NHL have won at least one playoff round each of the last two years the Kings and the Rangers.

That's a pretty surprising stat, eh?
Meaningless stat really.

Perspective: Tom Renney in 3 seasons won 2 playoff rounds. In 5 seasons Torts won 3.

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05-26-2013, 09:29 AM
  #631
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why dont we try for alain vangueilt as coach
Because people would be calling for his ouster within a year, same goes for Pierre Maguire. These suggestions are insane.

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05-26-2013, 09:47 AM
  #632
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the collapsing system is sickening to watch. you give all the time in the world to the pointmen to blast somethjng that will probably be deflected by one of our players, who are at the same time screening hank. imo this "system" is what killed us in the playoffs. this is what led green to kick our ass in the first round and krug boychuck chara ans bartkowski to completely destroy us in the second round.

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05-26-2013, 10:02 AM
  #633
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the collapsing system is sickening to watch. you give all the time in the world to the pointmen to blast somethjng that will probably be deflected by one of our players, who are at the same time screening hank. imo this "system" is what killed us in the playoffs. this is what led green to kick our ass in the first round and krug boychuck chara ans bartkowski to completely destroy us in the second round.
Agreed. We all see it. This 6 goalie system can work for a year or 2 with a roster of grinders where taking risks on the offensive or neutral zones has a low reward probability. That was the right system for the last few years. Our roster is different now. We have much more offensive talent and most of our young talent are of the offensive variety. To develop those talent, he has to let them play, let them learn by making mistakes. Trying to make the kreiders, millers, etc develop by benching them or unless they learn to play goalies first is not the right way to go about it. Jam gets you into the playoffs for a round or 2. Talent wins Cups. Trust your players. They are much better than his system gives them credit for.

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05-26-2013, 10:32 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I keep reading Torts apologists say that management and fans overvalued the roster. Maybe if we had a better coach the roster would look a lot better.
Might as well add the media to that overvalued list.....we in New York tend to overrate talent in every sport for that matter.

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05-26-2013, 10:50 AM
  #635
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I keep reading Torts apologists say that management and fans overvalued the roster. Maybe if we had a better coach the roster would look a lot better.
He took a garbage roster to the 2nd round of the playoffs, beating the vastly superior Capitals talent wise. That's good in my books.

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05-26-2013, 10:52 AM
  #636
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Even if the Rangers had an elite puck carrying Dman, I don't think Torts would utilize him in that fashion.

Torts doesn't like his Dmen leading the rush unless it is off of a opposing team defensive breakdown or line change.

McD, Moore, and to a lesser extent Stralman are all guys who can carry a puck in the offensive zone. They are not elite per sey, but the Rangers aren't as lacking in that department as some would think.

I just think Torts would rather over utilize the stretch pass or hard arounds. He wants his Dmen in our end with our forwards extended/stationary in the neutral zone(too bad they almost never have any momentum though).
Agree. Its an issue. The system is an issue. A major issue.

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05-26-2013, 11:00 AM
  #637
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Coach makes the system the players play ... Change ad tweak or part ways.

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05-26-2013, 11:03 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
He took a garbage roster to the 2nd round of the playoffs, beating the vastly superior Capitals talent wise. That's good in my books.
Garbage? You certainly have a flair for the dramatic. This team wasn't garbage and Torts isn't a terrible coach... bad combination? Perhaps.

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05-26-2013, 11:04 AM
  #639
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Coach makes the system the players play ... Change ad tweak or part ways.
I'm beginning to think that Torts will be back next season. The Rangers will continue to have the same systemic problems we have had the past three seasons.

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05-26-2013, 11:06 AM
  #640
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I'm beginning to think that Torts will be back next season. The Rangers will continue to have the same systemic problems we have had the past three seasons.
What pisses me off if the fact that he doesn't even think to tweak the system he saw fail this year. Guarantee it's te same exact one next season.

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05-26-2013, 11:11 AM
  #641
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What pisses me off if the fact that he doesn't even think to tweak the system he saw fail this year. Guarantee it's te same exact one next season.
He won't. I guarantee he won't. If the man can't make obvious adjustments currently; its never going to change.

I can't see the Rangers doing a massive personnel change next season. They may make some tweaks here and there but its largely going to be the same roster.

The Rangers need a coach who can make a team adjust to their opponent.

If the Rangers had the personnel of the bruins(large grinding forwards), then Torts could afford to be stubborn.

But we aren't going to be that team.

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05-26-2013, 11:16 AM
  #642
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You're right and for so long as he refuses to adapt to situations instead of benching players for no apparent valid reasons, we're gonna suffer the same fate over and over again.

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05-26-2013, 11:16 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
He took a garbage roster to the 2nd round of the playoffs, beating the vastly superior Capitals talent wise. That's good in my books.
Caps this season = 15-3-0 vs their division, under .500 against the rest of the league, 4-9-2 vs our division. Ovechkin is 1.61 PPG vs his division and 0.90 vs the rest of the league. Inflated stats against a crap division does not mean much and they certainly do not have a superior roster to the Rangers. The Caps have a few very talented players on a very average team. Honestly doubt they make the playoffs next season.

 
Old
05-26-2013, 11:32 AM
  #644
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Garbage? You certainly have a flair for the dramatic. This team wasn't garbage and Torts isn't a terrible coach... bad combination? Perhaps.
Yes, Torts usually gets the most out of his rosters. Carl Hagelin, Mats Zuccarello, Ryan McDonagh, John Moore, Anton Stralman, Derrick Brassard, Ryan Callahan - all of those players were either not in the NHL or played a fringe role before Torts came over. Now all of those guys are top 6 players and top 6 defenders on the Rangers roster.

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05-26-2013, 12:19 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Yes, Torts usually gets the most out of his rosters. Carl Hagelin, Mats Zuccarello, Ryan McDonagh, John Moore, Anton Stralman, Derrick Brassard, Ryan Callahan - all of those players were either not in the NHL or played a fringe role before Torts came over. Now all of those guys are top 6 players and top 6 defenders on the Rangers roster.
zucc had a fantastic olympics before ever being coached by torts. mcd brass and moore were all young up and coming prospects with high potentials you cant give torts credit for them. drury made callahan the player he is. ill give torts and sully credit for stralman and hags

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05-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #646
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zucc had a fantastic olympics before ever being coached by torts. mcd brass and moore were all young up and coming prospects with high potentials you cant give torts credit for them. drury made callahan the player he is. ill give torts and sully credit for stralman and hags
So what I got from this post is that Torts deserves no credit for the development of the younger players on the roster.

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05-26-2013, 12:47 PM
  #647
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I keep reading Torts apologists say that management and fans overvalued the roster. Maybe if we had a better coach the roster would look a lot better.
Maybe it would look worse.

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05-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #648
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Torts should be forced to hire an offensive/PP assistant coach if he stays.

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05-26-2013, 12:54 PM
  #649
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Torts should be forced to hire an offensive/PP assistant coach if he stays.
i feel like he was pressured to get a 2nd assistant and he chose the goalie coach

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05-26-2013, 01:36 PM
  #650
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One word for me:

Accountability.

I've never seen a higher level of it ('94 aside) in my four decades as a fan. I for one have not tired of Tort's style. It's defense first, but most successful teams have similar styles....especially come play off time. All the top teams are better prepared to deal with physical playoff play. The Rangers absolutely need to be a more physically intimidating team. I think they will address that need. They have to.

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