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Old
05-22-2013, 11:05 AM
  #51
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenBartschi27 View Post
Pittsburgh's 1st for Kreider?
No thanks. Kreider's ceiling is huge, and he won't be Torts mishandled going forward.

Feel free to make alternate suggestion for your late 1st.

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Old
05-22-2013, 11:07 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Coincidentally, one more Boston win ensures their 1st round pick gets awarded to Dallas, as a condition to the Jagr deal.

Dallas already has the 10th pick, but I've heard that GM Nill isn't looking to trade down, at least not with that pick. If he can't move up in the draft (10th + wherever the B's end up), there's a chance he moves the Bruins' 1st.

What would it take, Rangers fans? Dallas needs centers and d-men.

And no, we do NOT want Richards back.
Thank you.
What do you consider fair and mutually good fit for a late 1st in a good year, which we can guess is like a mid pick in a regular year?

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Old
05-22-2013, 11:19 AM
  #53
Mats Zuccarelli
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Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
what makes you say that?
Have you seen our Powerplay (or lack of)?

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05-22-2013, 11:27 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I still hate the idea of moving Loui, but any deal with NYR would have to include Staal, IMO.

Especially with that 1st going the other way as well.

Eriksson
Bos 1st

for

Brassard
Staal
Kreider?
Whats Erikssons contract like?

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05-22-2013, 11:45 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I would strongly consider this deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
Agreed
Draw up the papers, look a agreeable deal involving the Oilers is possible on here.

Oilers would probably even throw in a B prospect to insure it gets done.

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Old
05-22-2013, 11:59 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by reckoner View Post
I think Sather will trade Brad Richards for an NHL-ready player, top prospect, and a pick.
Brad Richards will not get traded.

The Cap-Recapture issue should richards retire would bite the Rangers in the ass down the line.

Safer to buy him out this summer as the don't have any other albatross contracts aside from his.

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:03 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
This seems like overpayment from Carolina. Staal's a good player, but a top-5 and top-10 (almost) pick plus a roster player is a lot to give up, especially since Carolina has a pretty weak prospect pool as it is
Carolina would be set moving forward on defense with a 25 year old Staal and Faulk. No worries of re-signing Staal either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I still hate the idea of moving Loui, but any deal with NYR would have to include Staal, IMO.

Especially with that 1st going the other way as well.

Eriksson
Bos 1st

for

Brassard
Staal
Kreider?
Ugh, Brassard AND Staal?

How about:

Staal + Boyle + St Croix for Eriksson + BOS 1st

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownAvenger View Post
I don't think NYR would move Staal for futures but in case they ever would, how's this:

Staal

for

1st rounder 2013
Peter Holland
Luca Sbisa

Obviously, whenever trading for futures, NYR are hoping for potential:

Sbisa can rebound and become a second-pairing D, Holland can become a 2C (with size) and the 1st, well turns into something.

Ducks get the perfect partner for Fowler and count on Bonino to keep progressing and be their 2C. Really, if he takes another step forward with his skating this summer (and maybe faceoffs a bit) he''d be an awesome 2C - such a smart player and I've never seen anyone on the powerplay manage to keep the puck in like he does.
Not a big fan of Sbisa. Holland is intriguing. More likely to have to include Palmieri or Etem though.

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:29 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
7th overall + Harti + Ana 2nd for MDZ + JT Miller

Maybe swap out Harti for Pajaarvi if need be but think Harti is fair value

No, but workable with enough add.

Teemu Hartikainen, LW, was like 6th round. And he's not another Carl Hagelin.
Miller + MDZ are former firsts and they offer immediate production, which a pick does not.

Edm 1st 7th overall, Ana 2nd, D prospects Martin Marincin (2nd round) and Martin Gernat (5th round), and C prospect Tyler Pitlick (2nd round)

= 3 players [all prospects], 2 picks [5 total]

For this Rangers surrender:
MDZ, JT Miller, C Brian Boyle, LW/D Stu Bickel + C prospect Kris Newbury

which is 3 certain NHLers, 2 on the bubble, no picks [5 total]

I would consent to substitution for Bickel if we agree on alternate.


Oilers are putting up prospects for established players.
Get 1 definite guy for their backline in MDZ.
Miller will instantly compete for 2-3C, another area of need.
Boyle will 3C-4C, add grit, D
Bickel is flexible and can enforce.
Newbury is sound at fundamentals, to complement more talented linemates.

Can afford to lose 2 D prospects with MDZ added to big club
Pitlick can lose with Miller to big club

Deals add to D, top 6, bottom 6.
Costs good prospects, 1 high pick, 1 med high pick


Rangers
need these replacement D for MDZ, and Pitlick is < than Miller but has potential.
That is the gamble, and the time waiting for them to arrive.
Payoff to make that happen is the picks.

First OP you suggest does not help NY at pivot or D down the road, not worth it unless NY pays premium to gamble on picks exclusively down the road

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:31 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
Draw up the papers, look a agreeable deal involving the Oilers is possible on here.

Oilers would probably even throw in a B prospect to insure it gets done.
Not so fast.
Read my counter offer.
NYR should not take less.

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Ugh, Brassard AND Staal?

How about:

Staal + Boyle + St Croix for Eriksson + BOS 1st
No thanks. I dont think I'd trade Eriksson alone for that package(as it doesnt solve the Stars biggest need at center). Not a ton of use for Boyle or St. Croix, already have players/prospects just like them.

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Old
05-22-2013, 02:42 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I think Montreal's 1st is about 23rd-25th, making our 2nd around the 48-50. Something like that.

What about Montreal's 1st, Nashville's 2nd for McIlraith and your 3rd?

The counter offer for Staal would not include either Gallagher or Galchenyuk. Staal is terrific, but I would rather see how he comes back from his injury and there is a real worry that he would only be with us for 2 seasons. You do not give up a 3rd overall or a Calder finalist for 2 years when they are being packaged for something. If you were talking about Gallagher straight up for Staal, there is something around that, but neither fan base would go for it. Adding Emelin/Gorges and a 1st to a ROY candidate or a 3rd overall is just not realistic.

So, let's stick with the 1st proposal. Do you like the change?
We do sorta need McIlrath though, I mean the Rangers don't really have any grit to them whatsoever. It would take some discussing.

I agree with you that Gallagher/Galchenyuk are your "diamonds in the rough", but all I was saying is that it's going to take an overpayment to nab Staal. I wasn't expecting anyone to take that offer ahaha . But if we were to get rid of Staal one of Emelin/Gorges and that 1st would be in there. What would you add to that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnknownAvenger View Post
I don't think NYR would move Staal for futures but in case they ever would, how's this:

Staal

for

1st rounder 2013
Peter Holland
Luca Sbisa

Obviously, whenever trading for futures, NYR are hoping for potential:

Sbisa can rebound and become a second-pairing D, Holland can become a 2C (with size) and the 1st, well turns into something.

Ducks get the perfect partner for Fowler and count on Bonino to keep progressing and be their 2C. Really, if he takes another step forward with his skating this summer (and maybe faceoffs a bit) he''d be an awesome 2C - such a smart player and I've never seen anyone on the powerplay manage to keep the puck in like he does.
Interesting, I know that Sbisa could be the next Stralman for us and could use the change. 50/50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think the Rangers are as desperate for a 1st as the fans are. We have 2 3rds, and another from Columbus if we fail to reach the SCF. We can package two to move up in the 2nd round, or trade a prospect for pick like we've did with Grachev.

A top-10 pick would be swell, but unless that player is sure to step in right away, it doesn't do us much good to move a guy like Del Zotto for it.
They're not, but it would be real nice to move into the top 10 (especially with CAR/EDM being in there)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I still hate the idea of moving Loui, but any deal with NYR would have to include Staal, IMO.

Especially with that 1st going the other way as well.

Eriksson
Bos 1st

for

Brassard
Staal
Kreider?
Respectfully say no to this. Eriksson isn't getting any younger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I am NOT saying I would def. trade Cally, but if we were floored and it was very cap friendly I would consider it.

Kreider likewise should not be moved unless huge overpayment incentive, only because we do not yet know his true ceiling, and finally, when we are post Torts next season, IMO, we will see a glimpse of it. Till then, makes more sense to hold off.
Go home!! The Rangers are never going to trade their heart and soul, "bleed f***ing blue", blocks and sacrifices his body for a win Captain Callahan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Have you seen our Powerplay (or lack of)?
Good point. Truth hurts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
No, but workable with enough add.

Teemu Hartikainen, LW, was like 6th round. And he's not another Carl Hagelin.
Miller + MDZ are former firsts and they offer immediate production, which a pick does not.

Edm 1st 7th overall, Ana 2nd, D prospects Martin Marincin (2nd round) and Martin Gernat (5th round), and C prospect Tyler Pitlick (2nd round)

= 3 players [all prospects], 2 picks [5 total]

For this Rangers surrender:
MDZ, JT Miller, C Brian Boyle, LW/D Stu Bickel + C prospect Kris Newbury

which is 3 certain NHLers, 2 on the bubble, no picks [5 total]

I would consent to substitution for Bickel if we agree on alternate.


Oilers are putting up prospects for established players.
Get 1 definite guy for their backline in MDZ.
Miller will instantly compete for 2-3C, another area of need.
Boyle will 3C-4C, add grit, D
Bickel is flexible and can enforce.
Newbury is sound at fundamentals, to complement more talented linemates.

Can afford to lose 2 D prospects with MDZ added to big club
Pitlick can lose with Miller to big club

Deals add to D, top 6, bottom 6.
Costs good prospects, 1 high pick, 1 med high pick


Rangers
need these replacement D for MDZ, and Pitlick is < than Miller but has potential.
That is the gamble, and the time waiting for them to arrive.
Payoff to make that happen is the picks.

First OP you suggest does not help NY at pivot or D down the road, not worth it unless NY pays premium to gamble on picks exclusively down the road
EDM takes 5 players under their 50 limit? 2 of which are minor leaguers and maybe 3 with Miller, a fourth liner, and a top 4 d-man for a 1st, 2nd, and 3 newbies? Not going to happen.

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Old
05-22-2013, 03:04 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
We do sorta need McIlrath though, I mean the Rangers don't really have any grit to them whatsoever. It would take some discussing.

I agree with you that Gallagher/Galchenyuk are your "diamonds in the rough", but all I was saying is that it's going to take an overpayment to nab Staal. I wasn't expecting anyone to take that offer ahaha . But if we were to get rid of Staal one of Emelin/Gorges and that 1st would be in there. What would you add to that?
I would definitely be willing to do Gorges, 2013 1st, and....hmmmm..a couple of ideas come to mind.

1--Gorges/Emelin, 2013 1st, Desharnais. This only works if you need an offensive minded center.

2--Gorges/Emelin, 2013 1st, Collberg. Only works if you want an offensive minded wing prospect.

3--Gorges/Emelin, 2013 1st, Leblanc. Leblanc had injury issues last season. He is a bigger guy than DD or Collberg, though.

4--Gorges/Emelin, Nashville's 2nd, Bourque. You get a 2nd that is close to a 1st, but you also get a top 6 winger with size.

5--Gorges, Bourque, Montreal's 1st, Montreal's 2nd for Staal and McIlraith.

I am trying to think AND be fair. It is hard for old men to do that, you know...

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Old
05-22-2013, 03:21 PM
  #63
bernmeister
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Bones View Post
...
Quote:
We do sorta need McIlrath though
Agree. Would be interesting to pair in L-R tandem with Duncan Siemens, but each side wants too much.

Quote:
I mean the Rangers don't really have any grit to them whatsoever. ....
Pushing it, but we certainly can use more.

Quote:
Go home!! The Rangers are never going to trade their heart and soul, "bleed f***ing blue", blocks and sacrifices his body for a win Captain Callahan. ....
That's the point; this guy has 3 premium years and then maybe 2 on decline if he continues to play full tilt like this all the time.
In a short while, there may not be enough of a body left to trade!
So as indicated, I'm happy to keep him, unless we're overwhelmed.
Also, the only salary we are locked on to is Nash, and to a lesser extent Hank.

After Staal, Girardi etc. we DOWN THE ROAD will have to look at more moves for more cap space. AT THAT POINT Cally may not be somebody we can afford.

Quote:
EDM takes 5 players under their 50 limit? 2 of which are minor leaguers and maybe 3 with Miller, a fourth liner, and a top 4 d-man for a 1st, 2nd, and 3 newbies? Not going to happen.
No .
Oilers obtain 3 certain NHLers who are keepers for the varsity + 2 guys on the bubble, Bickel + Newbury, who may/may not make the cut in which case (if not) they get traded for low pick. If they do, Oilers move 2 pieces of deadwood not worth as worth keeping due to the upgrade.

Oilers are moving 3 guys from their 50 man roster who might make the club + the picks for 3 guys certain to make the club and 2 on the bubble who stay/go based on competition at 4th line/AHL level.

So what is with the big ?

If they want MILLER and MDZ, they should not go cheap, and not just for picks we have to wait on.

My counter prop offers better balance IMO.

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Old
05-22-2013, 03:49 PM
  #64
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No, but workable with enough add.

Teemu Hartikainen, LW, was like 6th round. And he's not another Carl Hagelin.
Miller + MDZ are former firsts and they offer immediate production, which a pick does not.

Edm 1st 7th overall, Ana 2nd, D prospects Martin Marincin (2nd round) and Martin Gernat (5th round), and C prospect Tyler Pitlick (2nd round)

= 3 players [all prospects], 2 picks [5 total]

For this Rangers surrender:
MDZ, JT Miller, C Brian Boyle, LW/D Stu Bickel + C prospect Kris Newbury

which is 3 certain NHLers, 2 on the bubble, no picks [5 total]

I would consent to substitution for Bickel if we agree on alternate.


Oilers are putting up prospects for established players.
Get 1 definite guy for their backline in MDZ.
Miller will instantly compete for 2-3C, another area of need.
Boyle will 3C-4C, add grit, D
Bickel is flexible and can enforce.
Newbury is sound at fundamentals, to complement more talented linemates.

Can afford to lose 2 D prospects with MDZ added to big club
Pitlick can lose with Miller to big club

Deals add to D, top 6, bottom 6.
Costs good prospects, 1 high pick, 1 med high pick


Rangers
need these replacement D for MDZ, and Pitlick is < than Miller but has potential.
That is the gamble, and the time waiting for them to arrive.
Payoff to make that happen is the picks.

First OP you suggest does not help NY at pivot or D down the road, not worth it unless NY pays premium to gamble on picks exclusively down the road
Not bad but simplify drop useless players back and forth and don't think Edm will trade Marincin as Mac T already said hes getting a good shot next year.

7th overall + Ana 2nd + Pitlick + Gernat for MDZ + Miller (throw in Boyle if you want to shed the salary)

7th overall + Pitlick > MDZ

Ana 2nd + Gernat would be < Miller

swap Pitlick for Harti in above if that helps.

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Old
05-22-2013, 04:13 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
Not bad but simplify drop useless players back and forth and don't think Edm will trade Marincin as Mac T already said hes getting a good shot next year.

7th overall + Ana 2nd + Pitlick + Gernat for MDZ + Miller (throw in Boyle if you want to shed the salary)

7th overall + Pitlick > MDZ

Ana 2nd + Gernat would be < Miller

swap Pitlick for Harti in above if that helps.
Pitlick is nothing special and the 7th overall could very well amount to nothing. No point in dealing a 22 year old top-4 defender who was top-20 in defensive scoring last year unless you're getting something established back in the deal. I have a very hard time seeing the 7th overall being the foundation of a Del Zotto trade.

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05-22-2013, 04:23 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
7th overall + Harti + Ana 2nd for MDZ + JT Miller

Maybe swap out Harti for Pajaarvi if need be but think Harti is fair value
I think a deal around 7th overall for MDZ could be done, but I doubt we trade Miller.

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05-22-2013, 04:26 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I think Montreal's 1st is about 23rd-25th, making our 2nd around the 48-50. Something like that.

What about Montreal's 1st, Nashville's 2nd for McIlraith and your 3rd?

The counter offer for Staal would not include either Gallagher or Galchenyuk. Staal is terrific, but I would rather see how he comes back from his injury and there is a real worry that he would only be with us for 2 seasons. You do not give up a 3rd overall or a Calder finalist for 2 years when they are being packaged for something. If you were talking about Gallagher straight up for Staal, there is something around that, but neither fan base would go for it. Adding Emelin/Gorges and a 1st to a ROY candidate or a 3rd overall is just not realistic.

So, let's stick with the 1st proposal. Do you like the change?
You guys can all stop with the McIlrath, Miller and Kreider proposals. People here get too enamored with first rounders. All these players have been developing fine for us and there's literally no reason for us to trade any of them.

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05-22-2013, 04:28 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
I still hate the idea of moving Loui, but any deal with NYR would have to include Staal, IMO.

Especially with that 1st going the other way as well.

Eriksson
Bos 1st

for

Brassard
Staal
Kreider?
Pretty expected. A lot of us expect either Staal or MDZ to get moved this offseason. There's no chance we moved Brassard though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
Whats Erikssons contract like?
Beautiful, especially if he reverts to his previous form.

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05-22-2013, 04:34 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Pitlick is nothing special and the 7th overall could very well amount to nothing. No point in dealing a 22 year old top-4 defender who was top-20 in defensive scoring last year unless you're getting something established back in the deal. I have a very hard time seeing the 7th overall being the foundation of a Del Zotto trade.
The problem is I see a pretty clear drop off after 6th this year and knowing us we'd take someone off the board anyway. That's why I like Staal for 5th overall+ as opposed to Del Zotto for 7th overall+. Staal's better, but I wonder if our defense will include neither of these in the coming years. I'd much rather do without Girardi than Staal.

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05-22-2013, 06:17 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by OnTheBrink View Post
Not bad but simplify drop useless players back and forth and don't think Edm will trade Marincin as Mac T already said hes getting a good shot next year.

7th overall + Ana 2nd + Pitlick + Gernat for MDZ + Miller (throw in Boyle if you want to shed the salary)

7th overall + Pitlick > MDZ

Ana 2nd + Gernat would be < Miller

swap Pitlick for Harti in above if that helps.
Also not bad, and maybe we are getting closer, but no to ^.
Pitlick is nice but at this stage he is WAY behind Miller.
He is there for development to replace Boyle. We would see him immediately as AHL/4th line to start, and hope he shows something.
Miller is already proven to be 3rd line min, pinch 2nd line with higher potential not tapped in barely a cup of coffee w/NY.

No, if we're giving Del Zotto and you are keeping Klefbom and Musil, we have to also get Marancin. It must be 2 of 3 on Marancin, Gernat and Klefbom, That would be non-negotiable unless other serious value was added, making for a different deal.

The middle ground is we can be flexible on Pitlick, who has speed but not super speed and may be a sturdier version of our Ray Bourque, and Boyle, who would certainly be your 4C possibly challenging for 3C depending upon if Hemsky is moved, etc.

If you don't want Boyle, we'll keep him. Don't want to give up Pitlick, no prob.
But the Ds must come. Tell McT that Marancin is part of what comes here if he wants to make Howson, who supposedly craves Del Zotto, happy.

We can also have a handshake understanding, nothing binding, that if we move Staal to Carolina probably a package for a righty D, Justin Faulk, also a package other way, we can give you a courtesy call on Eminger. No big whoop.

You said:
"7th overall + Ana 2nd + Pitlick + Gernat for MDZ + Miller (throw in Boyle if you want to shed the salary)

7th overall + Pitlick > MDZ

Ana 2nd + Gernat would be < Miller

swap Pitlick for Harti in above if that helps"

I see it this way:
7th overall + Ana 2nd is slightly less than a mid first selection Miller, given that you add to that ranking he since has had seasoning under his belt and has performed very well since he got here and is still ELC. {Miller worth more than his draft rank.}

Marancin, Gernat + Pitlick is less than MDZ, but it is close. {MDZ is a late first, now worth more than his draft rank, and as noted, Marancin is a 2nd, Gernat a 5th. I see the potential, but you gotta give something more on proven vs. potential.}

Boyle is a sweetener.

Harti have no interest in, have Kyle Jean and others for that.

So Rangers are not underpaying, they are overpaying, but it's close enough to get a deal done.

The guys Rangers want/need to move are not these guys, but vets with growing contracts. Your offer [besides the negligible Boyle we are happy to keep as opposed to give away] does not help in this area, though it does not hurt, as youth replaces youth.

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Old
05-22-2013, 07:47 PM
  #71
Joey Bones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I would definitely be willing to do Gorges, 2013 1st, and....hmmmm..a couple of ideas come to mind.

1--Gorges/Emelin, 2013 1st, Desharnais. This only works if you need an offensive minded center.

2--Gorges/Emelin, 2013 1st, Collberg. Only works if you want an offensive minded wing prospect.

3--Gorges/Emelin, 2013 1st, Leblanc. Leblanc had injury issues last season. He is a bigger guy than DD or Collberg, though.

4--Gorges/Emelin, Nashville's 2nd, Bourque. You get a 2nd that is close to a 1st, but you also get a top 6 winger with size.

5--Gorges, Bourque, Montreal's 1st, Montreal's 2nd for Staal and McIlraith.

I am trying to think AND be fair. It is hard for old men to do that, you know...
being fair is hard these days, but you could scratch No.1 and No.4 off. Desharnais's age isn't intriguing and I'm not too sure about Bourque, but doesn't he have consistency issues? I like Collberg a lot!! I actually wanted the Rangers to draft him instead of Skjei last year. Louis Leblanc is a very solid player too, but he has had injury problems. Still like the guy though. Also, what can you tell me about Brady Vail? He seems like he's doing very well in Juniors.

Let's see now,
Rangers trade Staal for Emelin, Collberg, 2013 1st?

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05-22-2013, 07:59 PM
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Joey Bones
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What would it take for the Avs to get Christian Thomas?
What are you willing to give up?

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05-22-2013, 11:12 PM
  #73
CM Lundqvist
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I still hate the idea of moving Loui, but any deal with NYR would have to include Staal, IMO.

Especially with that 1st going the other way as well.

Eriksson
Bos 1st

for

Brassard
Staal
Kreider?
That's too much for Eriksson, if you ask me.

Rangers can't do that because right now Brassard is playing like our #1C.

Just way too much for Loui.

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05-23-2013, 12:48 AM
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To think the rangers had the chance to get their pick back.....

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05-23-2013, 08:16 AM
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To think the rangers had the chance to get their pick back.....
Do tell.
What would that have cost us (assume it reconfigures the last deal).

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