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05-28-2013, 12:23 AM
  #801
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Trading Staal isn't going to happen for a few reasons. Firstly, he's probably the Rangers' best defenseman. I think it the difference between a defensive corps with and without Staal was obvious this season. Secondly, I don't anticipate too many teams willing to pay full price for a defenseman who may be concussion-prone and have depth-perception issues. For as good as Staal is, he is a bit of a question mark, physically speaking.

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05-28-2013, 01:26 AM
  #802
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One more thing about Girardi, over the last few years, the top pair has been either McD-Girardi or Staal-Girardi, see a pattern there?
People need to realize that eventhough McD is the better Dman, Girardi is more important than McD to the Rangers.
See, only Girardi can play the top pairing RHD, but either Staal or McD can play top pairing LHD.

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05-28-2013, 01:51 AM
  #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
What.

Girardi had a bit of an up and down regular season, but he was a beast down the stretch and for most of the playoffs. he game two against Boston was legendarily bad, but otherwise, he was a rock and playing at the level he was playing last year.

I think that ankle injury affected Girardi more than we think.
A top pairing D-man can't have games like that in the playoffs.

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05-28-2013, 01:57 AM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
A top pairing D-man can't have games like that in the playoffs.
Let's crucify him for one bad playoff game.
And by the way, you were not a fan of his way before that game, so let's not fool ourselves.

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05-28-2013, 01:58 AM
  #805
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All that being said, like I said before the man I hold most responsible is Torts.

I'm willing to give both Girardi and my other "friend" Del Zotto a chance in an actual structured hockey system that works both ends ice. Not "Defense? lol block the goalie's vision! Offense? lol don't practice!"

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05-28-2013, 02:00 AM
  #806
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Girardi will bounce back next season in a big way. What scares me about Girardi is that players that play like him tend to fall off the cliff. The regression can come hard and fast. I'd be wary of giving Danny G anything more than 3 years.

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05-28-2013, 02:06 AM
  #807
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Girardi will bounce back next season in a big way. What scares me about Girardi is that players that play like him tend to fall off the cliff. The regression can come hard and fast. I'd be wary of giving Danny G anything more than 3 years.
I agree with that.
Hence I was surprised they didn't trade for a RHD to groom. I was sure Savard was the guy they would get from Columbus. They had 2 bites at that apple but didn't pull the trigger.
Maybe it's Calle, but the news from Sweden about him are not as good as expected. Maybe they have another plan, or maybe not.

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05-28-2013, 02:16 AM
  #808
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What would it take to get Kassian from Nucks?

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05-28-2013, 02:26 AM
  #809
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There is not the slightest chance in hell MDZ gets you Eriksson. That conversation doesn't even start.
I wouldn't give up more for Eriksson. I don't think Dallas needs to loose another forward, so you are probably right. But Eriksson tends to be overrated.

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05-28-2013, 02:29 AM
  #810
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What would it take to get Kassian from Nucks?
More than any of us are willing to part with. They see him as their second coming of Bertuzzi.

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05-28-2013, 02:30 AM
  #811
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When discussing the Ranger's defense, Rangers fans will defend each guy as an individual to the death, and yet Lundqvist still faces and entirely ridiculous amount of quality chances. Somewhere along the line, somebody back there has to be not playing good. Who is it?
More or less, the only way to defend nowadays is the carry the momentum. Nobody can really sit back and shut things down. Its just hard to understand Torts thinking here. You need to carry the momentum to play good defense. We give away the momentum to not make misstakes. Hence why the rest of the league is shaking their heads at us. It takes an extremely long time before reporters in NA starts to question the X and Os of a coach in the NHL. Everyone is questioning Torts right now...

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05-28-2013, 02:30 AM
  #812
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If Staal is going to make a recovery, then you keep him and shop Del Zotto. Unless Carolina is making an offer that's too good to refuse, he needs to stay until we're forced to move him.

Would love to add Burmistrov to the stable, but it's risky to make an unproven player the centerpiece of a Del Zotto deal, IMO. Maybe if it was Burmistrov and the 13th overall pick. Take Zykov or move back for a 2nd and try and grab Mantha in the 18-22 range of the first. Two guys who are on a very steep development curve and could be NHL ready sooner rather than later. Both play the LW. Zykov looks like Frolov when Frolov could skate for an entire shift and not lose the puck. Move some other pieces for McBain. He needs a change of scenery badly. His game fell off a cliff last year.

Build like Boston. Skill down the middle. Playmaking centers. Size and goal scoring on the wings. 4th line that's hard to play against. Big, mobile defenders who can transition the puck.
I agree 100% with this. These teams becomes almost unbeatable, Anaheim when they won was a perfect example of this. They had centers and D's who got them up ice, and a ton of size on the wings to keep the puck up once they got there. The season after they won they dealt Andy McDonald (who is among the best in the game at getting the puck up ice), and fell through completely. They never recovered really...

You need to take some risks in the neutralzone though for those centers to pay off...

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05-28-2013, 02:34 AM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
More than any of us are willing to part with. They see him as their second coming of Bertuzzi.
Try me, just curious on the value. It's not like he has been tearing it up in Vancouver.

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05-28-2013, 02:46 AM
  #814
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Try me, just curious on the value. It's not like he has been tearing it up in Vancouver.
I don't think they'd even budge on Kreider. You're probably looking at Stepan or McDonagh, maybe Girardi+ because they're looking for right-handed D.

The kid fetched Hodson and Hodson was a .5 PPG player as a rookie which is pretty much where Stepan was year 1, and was a .7 PPG player in year 2, which is better than what Stepan was in year 2.

Hodgson is the real deal and if Kassian grabbed Hodsgon I should think we're looking at Stepan or McDonagh.

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05-28-2013, 02:53 AM
  #815
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One more thing about Girardi, over the last few years, the top pair has been either McD-Girardi or Staal-Girardi, see a pattern there?
People need to realize that eventhough McD is the better Dman, Girardi is more important than McD to the Rangers.
See, only Girardi can play the top pairing RHD, but either Staal or McD can play top pairing LHD.
The only pattern there is that Staal has been injured. Girardi hasn't been so we haven't had to try someone different in the top RHD spot. I doubt Stralman is up to it, but luckily we haven't had to find.

If he could stay healthy, I'd love to see what a McD/Staal (or vice versa) top pairing looks like

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05-28-2013, 02:56 AM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't think they'd even budge on Kreider. You're probably looking at Stepan or McDonagh, maybe Girardi+ because they're looking for right-handed D.

The kid fetched Hodson and Hodson was a .5 PPG player as a rookie which is pretty much where Stepan was year 1, and was a .7 PPG player in year 2, which is better than what Stepan was in year 2.

Hodgson is the real deal and if Kassian grabbed Hodsgon I should think we're looking at Stepan or McDonagh.
There is a thread about Kassian for DZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Michael Del Zotto would make a lot of sense if the Canucks move Edler for a top 6 winger. He would replace Edler's offense and minutes.

To NYR- Kassian, Schroeder
To VAN- Del Zotto, Boyle

Edler for Bobby Ryan/Loui Eriksson

Something along those lines...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
That would make sense, although I'd still rather not trade Edler and try to acquire someone for futures if possible. Also, I'd rather keep Schroeder at 3C than Boyle to be honest.
Kassian for DZ heads up I'd do. Maybe Nucks adding a little.

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05-28-2013, 02:58 AM
  #817
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The only pattern there is that Staal has been injured. Girardi hasn't been so we haven't had to try someone different in the top RHD spot. I doubt Stralman is up to it, but luckily we haven't had to find.

If he could stay healthy, I'd love to see what a McD/Staal (or vice versa) top pairing looks like
They are both left handed, so he'd be not be on his natural side.

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05-28-2013, 03:13 AM
  #818
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They are both left handed, so he'd be not be on his natural side.
this is true, but does it really matter? To give an example, here is the breakdown of 'handedness' among playoff team's D-men (nhl.com provided the info on hand) shown as LH/RH

West:
ANA 5/1
CHI 4/2
DET 6/0
LA 4/3
Min 4/2
VAN 4/2
SJS 4/3
STL 4/3

East:
BOS 6/3 (9 d-men used, however 2 of their injuries were to RHD so they haven't had more than 2 in the lineup)
MTL 4/2
NYR 4/2 (I took our 'optimal' top 6, so no Eminger or Hamerlik
OTT 5/2
PIT 4/2
TOR 5/2
NYI 4/3
WAS 3/2 (they don't list Oleksy hand)

Obviously DET is massive outlier, but only 7 of the 16 clubs can even attempt to field a 3/3 D split (assuming Olksu is a righty), including NYR. If teams are happy to have at least one pairing of same handed D-men, why can't we at least try it with our top 2 guys (IMO)?

I understand that it changes how you play, what you can with your stick etc, but that's what practices is for, to learn and make perfect

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05-28-2013, 03:18 AM
  #819
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Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
this is true, but does it really matter? To give an example, here is the breakdown of 'handedness' among playoff team's D-men (nhl.com provided the info on hand) shown as LH/RH

West:
ANA 5/1
CHI 4/2
DET 6/0
LA 4/3
Min 4/2
VAN 4/2
SJS 4/3
STL 4/3

East:
BOS 6/3 (9 d-men used, however 2 of their injuries were to RHD so they haven't had more than 2 in the lineup)
MTL 4/2
NYR 4/2 (I took our 'optimal' top 6, so no Eminger or Hamerlik
OTT 5/2
PIT 4/2
TOR 5/2
NYI 4/3
WAS 3/2 (they don't list Oleksy hand)

Obviously DET is massive outlier, but only 7 of the 16 clubs can even attempt to field a 3/3 D split (assuming Olksu is a righty), including NYR. If teams are happy to have at least one pairing of same handed D-men, why can't we at least try it with our top 2 guys (IMO)?

I understand that it changes how you play, what you can with your stick etc, but that's what practices is for, to learn and make perfect
What's the breakdown for top pairs only?

edit: what those numbers show is what we already knew. RHD are rarer to find than LHD. It's not by choice, it's by necessity.

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05-28-2013, 03:28 AM
  #820
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Toward the end of his conference call, torts stated that the team needed to get "stiffer" through the lineup. That tells me Clowe is coming back. If not Clowe, somebody like him.

Edit: You meant this? Torts would never put Zuke ahead of Callahan. And zuke on the 3rd line with Hags makes it small line.
Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Clowe - Brass - Zuke
Hagelin - Lindberg/Miller - Callahan
Asham/Pyatt - Boyle - Powe/Miller

original lineup:
Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Clowe - Brass - Callahan
Hagelin - Lindberg/Miller - Dorsett
Asham/Pyatt - Boyle - Powe/Miller

I am fine as Lindberg as the only rookie on the roster. From everything I read about him, he should be ready to make the jump.

trade 1: DZ for Kassian+

Clowe - Stepan - Nash
Kreider - Brass - Kassian
Hagelin - Lindberg/Miller - Callahan
Asham/Pyatt - Boyle - Dorsett/Miller


Last edited by Kwayry: 05-28-2013 at 03:47 AM.
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05-28-2013, 03:30 AM
  #821
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Oleksy is RH, WSH can be taken off.

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05-28-2013, 03:31 AM
  #822
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Why is it either Zuccarello or Hagelin?

Just put Zuccarello with Brassard/Clowe and move Callahan to the third line. Makes the team much deeper.

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05-28-2013, 03:36 AM
  #823
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Why is it either Zuccarello or Hagelin?

Just put Zuccarello with Brassard/Clowe and move Callahan to the third line. Makes the team much deeper.
Where?
Clowe - Stepan - Nash
Kreider - Brass - Kassian
Hagelin - Lindberg/Miller - Callahan
Asham/Pyatt - Boyle - Dorsett/Miller

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05-28-2013, 03:47 AM
  #824
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Torts' "stiffer" comment is interesting and worrisome at the same time. Combine that with Clowe's presser, and I also think Clowe comes back. I just hope it's not for many years. A healthy Clowe makes us a much deeper team.

Who else is out there? Would Raffi Torres come here for 1.5 million? Upgrade on Pyatt for the same cap hit.

Also think Miller gets another crack on the team. He fits the "stiff" description.

The reason I think Torts' comment is worrisome is that he is not addressing the need for a scorer. Clowe is nice, but he's had more assists than goals over the years. His production comes from winning board battles and opening up space for other players to shoot and score. The Rangers don't have a sniper like Marleau or Couture to put pucks in the net when provided that space Clowe creates.

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05-28-2013, 04:05 AM
  #825
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
What's the breakdown for top pairs only?

edit: what those numbers show is what we already knew. RHD are rarer to find than LHD. It's not by choice, it's by necessity.
Sorry for the delay, had to feed the kid

Ok, this is mainly based off TOI as I'm not sure what a lot of teams D-pairings are, if someone wants to actually get the top pairings for playoff teams, I'll redo the #s. If the TOI is close for several D-men, I've listed a 3rd (or even a 4th), the names are in TOI order high-low and the handedness is shown next in order:

ANA: Beauchemin/Fowler L/L (next 2 are Lovejoy/Allen L/R
CHI: Keith/Hjarlmarsson L/L (taken from GDT, TOI agrees, think move was made as Seabrook (R)was sucking
DET: 6 lefty Dmen so I didn't bother
LA: L/R pairing, Doughty is their TOI leader and he's a righty
MIN: Suter/Brodin L/L (Spurgeon is next in TOI and a righty but he played 6 min less than Brodin and 10 less than Suter)
VAN: Edler/Bieska/Hamhuis/Garrison L/R/L/L (TOI very close assume the top is L/R)
SJS: Irwin/Boyle L/R (Taken from GDT)
STL: Pietrangelo/JBo R/L

BOS: Chara/Boychuck/Seidenberg/Ference L/R/L/L (assume Boychuck plays with Chara)
MTL: PK/Markov R/L
NYR: we all know
OTT: Karlsson/Gonchar R/L
PIT: Letang/Martin R/L
TOR: Phaneuf/Franson/Gunnerson/Gardiner L/R/L/L (TOI very close, assume L/R)
NYI: Harmonic/Visnovsky R/L
WAS: Green/Carlsson R/R (alzners next who's a righty)

Sorry for crappy spelling.

So 8 clear L/R pairs, 1 confirmed L/L pair (DET) and a lot of questions marks. Most of the close ones have 4 D-men close together which says that, at the least there is a lot of same handed 2nd pairings playing almost as much as the top pairings

EDIT - saw your edit and agree, but it also shows that L/L can work and I wouldn't mind the Rangers trying it, at least in pre-season. May also help Girardi's career lifespan if we can cut back on his minutes a bit

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