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LD Samuel Morin - Rimouski Oceanic, QMJHL (2013, 11th overall, Philadelphia)

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Old
09-20-2013, 04:29 PM
  #126
hockeyfreak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
35 points a season??? The same Samuel Morin that had 16 points in 46 games at the QMJHL level?
I know you've been a big advocate of Morin long before many professionals were, and you have a keen eye for talent, but Morin seems to have developed some more tools to his game. He's not a very adept puckhandler, and he never will be, but he has progressed in his decision making with the puck, and appears to now be solid player in transition. He's a lot more comfortable with the puck on his stick than he was in the past.

Given his skating ability, I really think he has a foundation to develop a 30 point offensive game in the NHL if his comfort level and poise with the puck continue to develop. With a more prominent role on the blueline in Rimouski, I don't think it's inconceivable year that he has breakout numbers this season in the Q.

I don't ever like pointing to the exception to the rule to prove a point, but given their physical similarities, Tyler Myers is a decent comparable for one making the argument that Morin has an underlying offensive potential. In his first 133 games in the WHL, Myers had 34 points. In 106 games, Morin has 24 points. I'm not suggesting Morin will ever have the offensive potential that Myers does, but I am suggesting that a player with strong skating ability, mobility, and good transitional skills has a foundation to build on to develop an offensive game.

There are some players (eg, Luke Schenn at 18) who don't have such a foundation, so suggesting any offensive potential is a bit outlandish. However, I don't think you can say the same for Morin. No problem if you disagree since it would be an exception to the general rule for Morin to develop an offensive game, but I don't think it's a totally outrageous notion that there may be some underlying offensive ability there.

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Old
09-20-2013, 04:33 PM
  #127
Jason MacIsaac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I know you've been a big advocate of Morin long before many professionals were, and you have a keen eye for talent, but Morin seems to have developed some more tools to his game. He's not a very adept puckhandler, and he never will be, but he has progressed in his decision making with the puck, and appears to now be solid player in transition. He's a lot more comfortable with the puck on his stick than he was in the past.

Given his skating ability, I really think he has a foundation to develop a 30 point offensive game in the NHL if his comfort level and poise with the puck continue to develop. With a more prominent role on the blueline in Rimouski, I don't think it's inconceivable year that he has breakout numbers this season in the Q.

I don't ever like pointing to the exception to the rule to prove a point, but given their physical similarities, Tyler Myers is a decent comparable for one making the argument that Morin has an underlying offensive potential. In his first 133 games in the WHL, Myers had 34 points. In 106 games, Morin has 24 points. I'm not suggesting Morin will ever have the offensive potential that Myers does, but I am suggesting that a player with strong skating ability, mobility, and good transitional skills has a foundation to build on to develop an offensive game.

There are some players (eg, Luke Schenn at 18) who don't have such a foundation, so suggesting any offensive potential is a bit outlandish. However, I don't think you can say the same for Morin. No problem if you disagree since it would be an exception to the general rule for Morin to develop an offensive game, but I don't think it's a totally outrageous notion that there may be some underlying offensive ability there.
I understand that but 35 points a season is a lot. I don't even except Severson to have that much offense. You need to either score 30 ES points with very little PP time or get a lot of pp time. I love Morin and think he will be a tough minute player at the next level for a long long time but I don't think his offense translates very well at the next level. If Morin plays 23-24 minutes a night of ES and PK time then he was worth the pick twice over.

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09-20-2013, 04:37 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
35 points a season??? The same Samuel Morin that had 16 points in 46 games at the QMJHL level?
Interesting you bring that up.

Tyler Myers had 19 points in 65 games in his draft year, had 40 the next in the WHL, and then almost had 50 in the NHL.

Probably not best to use stats as a basis for projection...I mean out of the same breath people could claim him as a PPG defender since he had 7 points in 6 playoff games.

I think he has the tools to put up >35 points in his prime.

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09-20-2013, 04:39 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
35 points a season??? The same Samuel Morin that had 16 points in 46 games at the QMJHL level?
In his prime in the NHL, which is probably about 5-6 years away....yeah totally insane to think that's reasonable.

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09-20-2013, 04:50 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Heisenbergg View Post
In his prime in the NHL, which is probably about 5-6 years away....yeah totally insane to think that's reasonable.
35 points is roughly the top 30 scoring defensmen in the league. Do you really think over his prime he will be among the top 30 offensive defensmen in the NHL?

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09-20-2013, 04:55 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
35 points is roughly the top 30 scoring defensmen in the league. Do you really think over his prime he will be among the top 30 offensive defensmen in the NHL?
Does Dennis Seidenberg sound like the kind of guy who can put up top 30 scoring numbers?

It's an argument about semantics really....30 points? 25 points? 35 points?

When players like Marc Staal, Dennis Seidenberg, Dan Girardi, Fedor Tyutin hover between 25-35 points while playing 22-24 minutes, I can see why people think 35 points in his prime years is a fair projection based on Morin's talent and tool box.

49 NHL defensman put up 0.43ppg or better last season, which is basically your equivalent to 35 points.

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09-20-2013, 05:04 PM
  #132
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Yea and 35 pts on a flyers team built for offense is not all that difficult at all.

I was a little pissed when the Flyers drafted him over some of the bigger names but watching him play the last few years the guy is much smarter than I thought. He handles things very well and makes great choices. A few things you can teach are hockey smarts and size, he has both. Letting him develop will allow the rest to come. I am not guaranteeing a Noris but there is no way id say he def isnt going to be in the running based off what Ive seen and read

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09-20-2013, 05:15 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Does Dennis Seidenberg sound like the kind of guy who can put up top 30 scoring numbers?

It's an argument about semantics really....30 points? 25 points? 35 points?

When players like Marc Staal, Dennis Seidenberg, Dan Girardi, Fedor Tyutin hover between 25-35 points while playing 22-24 minutes, I can see why people think 35 points in his prime years is a fair projection based on Morin's talent and tool box.

49 NHL defensman put up 0.43ppg or better last season, which is basically your equivalent to 35 points.
So a fluke 48 game season makes Seidenberg a consistent 35 point defensmen. He has never hit more than 32 points in a season to date. Paces don't equal the real thing. It's one thing to be on pace for 35 points and it is another to get to 35 points.

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09-20-2013, 06:59 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Yea and 35 pts on a flyers team built for offense is not all that difficult at all.

I was a little pissed when the Flyers drafted him over some of the bigger names but watching him play the last few years the guy is much smarter than I thought. He handles things very well and makes great choices. A few things you can teach are hockey smarts and size, he has both. Letting him develop will allow the rest to come. I am not guaranteeing a Noris but there is no way id say he def isnt going to be in the running based off what Ive seen and read
Who was a bigger name defensemen that they passed on? I wanted Morrissey at the time but he would have been redundant now with Hagg and Gostisbehere, I also think Hagg is a better prospect than Morrissey.

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09-21-2013, 12:55 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
So a fluke 48 game season makes Seidenberg a consistent 35 point defensmen. He has never hit more than 32 points in a season to date. Paces don't equal the real thing. It's one thing to be on pace for 35 points and it is another to get to 35 points.
I think a 35 point Upside for Morin is totally reasonable. These fellas are claiming that Morin could flirt with 35 in a peak/prime season or two.

Fact is Seidenberg hasn't just fluked it out once. He had the pace last year, and then three other years of 32, 32, and 30(in 70 games).


The other factors working into Morin's favour are that regardless of inherit offensive upside be is being drafted for a team that is known for a more up tempo style and Morin has if nothing else a good chance of developing into a 25-27 minute defensemen.

This could be the real key. Like a Bouwmeester type if Morin can grow into his body and economically eat minutes, he may not even have to be that gifted offensively or enjoy top line PP minutes to get 30-35 points. Not if he's on the ice for 45% of the season.

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09-21-2013, 12:57 PM
  #136
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Is Willie Mitchell an apt comparison?

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09-21-2013, 01:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
Is Willie Mitchell an apt comparison?
In Short: No
To Expand: NOOOO

To give you a little more detail:

Morin may handle the puck like a grenade compared to Neidermayer, but he projects at being considerably more adept in this area then Willie.

Morin will have a lot to prove in terms of showing that he has the bite or edge of Mitchell.

Lastly I think Morin will have the chance to skate better, transition out of his zone a little better.

Also on hockeydb Mitchell is listed as 6'3" - 205
Samuel Morin is already listed as 6'6" - 206

So Morin should have 3-5 inches on Mitchell and probably 15-20lbs at the end of the day.

They aren't really very similar at all.

and yet even notoriously defensive Mitchell has a 23 and 24 point season. So this would seem to further the claim that Morin getting over 30 a handful of times and topping out at 35 points in peak season(s) is a realistic upside to shoot for.

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09-21-2013, 04:25 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qubax View Post
I think a 35 point Upside for Morin is totally reasonable. These fellas are claiming that Morin could flirt with 35 in a peak/prime season or two.

Fact is Seidenberg hasn't just fluked it out once. He had the pace last year, and then three other years of 32, 32, and 30(in 70 games).


The other factors working into Morin's favour are that regardless of inherit offensive upside be is being drafted for a team that is known for a more up tempo style and Morin has if nothing else a good chance of developing into a 25-27 minute defensemen.

This could be the real key. Like a Bouwmeester type if Morin can grow into his body and economically eat minutes, he may not even have to be that gifted offensively or enjoy top line PP minutes to get 30-35 points. Not if he's on the ice for 45% of the season.
Except they are predicting he will have a sustained peak of 35 points a year. He may reach that mark once IMO but not year after year.

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09-21-2013, 04:30 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qubax View Post
In Short: No
To Expand: NOOOO

To give you a little more detail:

Morin may handle the puck like a grenade compared to Neidermayer, but he projects at being considerably more adept in this area then Willie.

Morin will have a lot to prove in terms of showing that he has the bite or edge of Mitchell.

Lastly I think Morin will have the chance to skate better, transition out of his zone a little better.

Also on hockeydb Mitchell is listed as 6'3" - 205
Samuel Morin is already listed as 6'6" - 206

So Morin should have 3-5 inches on Mitchell and probably 15-20lbs at the end of the day.

They aren't really very similar at all.

and yet even notoriously defensive Mitchell has a 23 and 24 point season. So this would seem to further the claim that Morin getting over 30 a handful of times and topping out at 35 points in peak season(s) is a realistic upside to shoot for.
Well I think you're selling Mitchell short, his reputation might be that of a defense only guy, but he's actually very smart, has a decent first pass and quite a good shot, he was even used on the Kings PP occasionally. That's why Mitchell has a 23 and 24 point season. Rob Scuderi and Matt Greene are defense only guys, Mitchell is a tier above that, not quite a two-way defenseman though.

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11-12-2013, 12:35 AM
  #140
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Any updates on his play this year from Q followers?

He has already tied his career total in goals so far this year, and has improved his PPG from 0.37 to 0.56. That would be about 34 points if he played 60 games.

I don't ever think he'll be a high point producer, but it's good that he's showing an improvement.

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11-12-2013, 11:50 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Except they are predicting he will have a sustained peak of 35 points a year. He may reach that mark once IMO but not year after year.
The difference between your view and them is that they see his ultimate upside and think he will reach it on a regular basis. You, on the other hand, see the same ultimate upside but give him a bit of room for error because he is a raw prospect.

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02-10-2014, 08:38 AM
  #142
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NHL Scout: Samuel Morin Future #1 D-man

Yesterday Tim Panaccio tweeted that an NHL scout believes Morin will become a "monster No. 1 d-man someday."

(can't get the link to the tweet right now because I'm at work)

Thoughts Flyer fans?

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02-10-2014, 09:04 AM
  #143
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Monster no. 1 d-man seems optimistic, how many of them are there in the NHL right now?

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02-10-2014, 09:13 AM
  #144
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We'll see. He's still got ways to go, next year should be a big test for him. He'll be the guy with Rimouski & he should be at the WJC's with Canada.

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02-10-2014, 09:24 AM
  #145
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Monster no. 1 d-man seems optimistic, how many of them are there in the NHL right now?
Exactly. I'm wondering which NHL scout said that (he said it is not a Flyers scout). Also, if this scout has successully projected other players.

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02-10-2014, 04:55 PM
  #146
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Some fun and relevant posts on 2013 CHL draft d-men:

http://thats-offside.blogspot.ca/201...and-draft.html
http://thats-offside.blogspot.ca/201...eman-post.html
http://thats-offside.blogspot.ca/201...g-data-on.html

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02-10-2014, 05:24 PM
  #147
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Read the first one and got cancer from it. Not planning on reading the rest.

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02-26-2014, 09:32 PM
  #148
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Recent articles on Morin:

http://articles.philly.com/2014-02-2...nny-lecavalier

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...uel_Morin.html

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03-03-2014, 10:05 AM
  #149
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I've been watching a lot of Darnell Nurse Lately and going back to watch Morin play.

I'll Compare the two. Right now Nurse is much better than Morin.

Nurse has a lot of good bend in his knees and hips that allow him to react quickly to lateral movements. He is a great lateral skater and reminds me of a 6'5'' duncan keith in terms of his skating.

Morin has incredible straight ahead speed, almost unrivaled in the chl. He rarely uses it but when he does he can gain the ozone in no time. He plays too erect right now and does not react well laterally from a standstill position.

Nurse is a great 1 on 1 defender, and his great skating allows him to keep his body in front of his man. He does not rely on the pokecheck so much but instead uses his body to stop his man.

Morin relies too much on the pokecheck. He has increidble reach but against smaller players in the q he sometimes gets beat when he misses the pokecheck. He is so big and gangly right now and plays to erect that he rarely is able to use his body to impact the defender.

ON offense Nurse is a great puckhandler and has slick moves that suit a forward more than a Defender. He has a pretty good wrister, and a below avg slapshot.

Morin can puckhandle about as well as chara. Soft hands but no moves really. Morin has a pretty good wrister, and a howitzer for a slapshot. His windup on his slapshot is a 12 o clock to 6 o clock shot. when he gets this off goalies are helpless, however with that windup it really leaves him vulnearable to breakaways.


The q is a much faster league than the ohl, and the ohl is a much more physical league. I think if both players switched leagues they would find even more success.

Nurse gets a lot more toi and much more Pp time. Morin gets more PK time.

I think Nurse could be in the nhl next year and avg up to 20 minutes. He is going to be good, but may not be a factor on the pp for a couple of years.

Morin is about 2-3 years away . If he can become quicker laterally i think he could be a number 1 dman that plays all situations.

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03-03-2014, 12:18 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I've been watching a lot of Darnell Nurse Lately and going back to watch Morin play.

I'll Compare the two. Right now Nurse is much better than Morin.

Nurse has a lot of good bend in his knees and hips that allow him to react quickly to lateral movements. He is a great lateral skater and reminds me of a 6'5'' duncan keith in terms of his skating.

Morin has incredible straight ahead speed, almost unrivaled in the chl. He rarely uses it but when he does he can gain the ozone in no time. He plays too erect right now and does not react well laterally from a standstill position.

Nurse is a great 1 on 1 defender, and his great skating allows him to keep his body in front of his man. He does not rely on the pokecheck so much but instead uses his body to stop his man.

Morin relies too much on the pokecheck. He has increidble reach but against smaller players in the q he sometimes gets beat when he misses the pokecheck. He is so big and gangly right now and plays to erect that he rarely is able to use his body to impact the defender.

ON offense Nurse is a great puckhandler and has slick moves that suit a forward more than a Defender. He has a pretty good wrister, and a below avg slapshot.

Morin can puckhandle about as well as chara. Soft hands but no moves really. Morin has a pretty good wrister, and a howitzer for a slapshot. His windup on his slapshot is a 12 o clock to 6 o clock shot. when he gets this off goalies are helpless, however with that windup it really leaves him vulnearable to breakaways.


The q is a much faster league than the ohl, and the ohl is a much more physical league. I think if both players switched leagues they would find even more success.

Nurse gets a lot more toi and much more Pp time. Morin gets more PK time.

I think Nurse could be in the nhl next year and avg up to 20 minutes. He is going to be good, but may not be a factor on the pp for a couple of years.

Morin is about 2-3 years away . If he can become quicker laterally i think he could be a number 1 dman that plays all situations.
I am not going to bust on you because we all have opinions. But I am going to go with what our scouts said about both Nurse and Morin and leave it at that. It also would not surprise me at all if Morin made the team next year but if the club feels he is not ready and the OHL will help his development then so be it. I am just glad we have some good young talent in the pipeline.

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