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The new Jagr?

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05-16-2005, 02:13 PM
  #1
BLACKBURN
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The new Jagr?

He had a great world championship with the Czechs and showed glimpses of what he is capable of. In the final against Canada he was a bull and looks like he finally has a passion for the game again.

"I'm glad it's behind me. I won it finally. But hopefully the NHL will start and I'll busy there and we'll go far with the New York Rangers." JJ

I saw this quote and thought it was encouraging that he wants to return to the NHL, maybe New York will have the Jagr that was a dominant, passionate superstar back in the 90's.

Do you guys think he is a changed man or is he still going to be a lazy, injury prone whiner when he's back in North America?

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05-16-2005, 02:16 PM
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FLYLine24
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I dont understand why people underrate Jagr so much...his whole career including the past 3 years he still is averaging a point a game. In this day in age that is very good in the NHL. Could he produce more? Sure..give him a good center.

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05-16-2005, 02:23 PM
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That lazy, disinterested guy...

averaged nearly a point-per-game last season and nearly .5 goals per game as a Ranger. That's better than a lot of those hard-working guys.

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05-16-2005, 02:34 PM
  #4
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for the most part i thought jagr played hard for the rangers, despite many of the games being basically pointless (once the rangers were out of the PO's)

a lot of the "lazy" stuff comes from his time in washington i think...i don't think he was a good fit there from the beginning and that could have been part of it, i don't think he ever really wanted to go there. while it's easy to say "guys should play their best no matter where they are", some players just simply play better in some places than in others.

I'd be more concerned about jagr staying healthy than about jagr putting up points

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05-16-2005, 02:35 PM
  #5
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He played pretty well with the Rangers, especially considering what surrounded him.

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05-16-2005, 03:07 PM
  #6
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Again, the same thing like with Lindros

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKBURN
He had a great world championship with the Czechs and showed glimpses of what he is capable of. In the final against Canada he was a bull and looks like he finally has a passion for the game again.

"I'm glad it's behind me. I won it finally. But hopefully the NHL will start and I'll busy there and we'll go far with the New York Rangers." JJ

I saw this quote and thought it was encouraging that he wants to return to the NHL, maybe New York will have the Jagr that was a dominant, passionate superstar back in the 90's.

Do you guys think he is a changed man or is he still going to be a lazy, injury prone whiner when he's back in North America?
What good is it if you don't bring in the supporting players, or have them in the system, or on hand already of having a guy like Jagr? Lindros was paired with a couple of smurfs. Still without the proper, accompanying players both Lindros and Jagr put up reasonable numbers.

Jagr has said all the right things since he got to the NYR's. He even brought into the rebuilding post massacre. I remember him saying that maybe it was time for him to be the older, wiser vet and teach the young guys how the game is played like when he was a youngster in Pitt.

Plus, let's say we want to dump him for picks or young players. If we eat half of what we are suppose to pay him it becomes workable equation. We pay $2.5M, the acquiring team pays $2.5M and washington picks up the balance, $5M plus his $1M deferment.

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05-16-2005, 03:22 PM
  #7
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I agree that Jagr has been under-rated for the past few years. However, I'm concerned about his age, at 33 he's only going to get worse. I personaly think the Rangers could do well by trading him, although keeping a ppg player wouldn't be horrible either.

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05-16-2005, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel_master
I agree that Jagr has been under-rated for the past few years. However, I'm concerned about his age, at 33 he's only going to get worse. I personaly think the Rangers could do well by trading him, although keeping a ppg player wouldn't be horrible either.
Trading him is going to EXTREMELY hard to do post CBA. With his salary and a salary cap nobody is going to want him..and if they do then we probably wont get much in return.

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05-16-2005, 04:06 PM
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Jagr was good for us... too good... If not for him we might have been in the lottery in the 4th-5th slot. Obviously we wouldn't have won AO, but that extra slot or two could have potentially helped us depending on how they configure the next draft.

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05-16-2005, 04:10 PM
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I think Jagr can still be the best player if he wants it. He still is a house for opposing D's to deal with. And if they enforce obstruction more like they have hinted at, Jagr will be almost impossible to stop. He needs two guys on him. That leaves someone open.


I'd sign Rucinsky to make Jagr happy. Plus Martin was a good player here and won't cost a lot.

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05-16-2005, 05:08 PM
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From the look of it Jagr also seems to be in a much better shape this year then last year. His skating isn't what it was 10 years ago but his acceleration is have looked much better this year.

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05-16-2005, 05:25 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
I dont understand why people underrate Jagr so much...his whole career including the past 3 years he still is averaging a point a game. In this day in age that is very good in the NHL. Could he produce more? Sure..give him a good center.
I absolutley agree with you. I have personally never been one to underrate Jagr......EVER..... The guy is with out a doubt when on his game one of the top 3 in the world.

Now, he is averaging a point per, but i dont think he is at the top of his game . And it still amazes me he does what he does point wise. Now lets picture Jagr with a quality center and going almost game in and game out with more passion, we could see another couple seasons with league leading points, thats more of a fact not an opinion. The guy is spectacular and always will have the knack to be one the best.

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05-16-2005, 05:29 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
I dont understand why people underrate Jagr so much...his whole career including the past 3 years he still is averaging a point a game. In this day in age that is very good in the NHL. Could he produce more? Sure..give him a good center.
People don't under-rate him. I've never seen or heard anyone under-rate him. Fans are just fed up with his type of player; the guy that demands millions to only play on select occassions. Fans are fed up with the guy that has everything, yet does nothing. It's not under-rating the guy, it's harping on him for not giving a ****. Both of which lead to a general discontent, which perhaps you've confused for under-rating. Everyone knows he's got tremendous skill but what good is that skill if you do not use it?

I liked what I saw from Jagr but until I see him play a full 82 game season, plus playoffs like he did in Austria, I'll continue to loathe is character.

For what it's worth he was nothing but class in the post-game media conference. So were the Canadians for that matter.

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05-16-2005, 08:14 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
I dont understand why people underrate Jagr so much...his whole career including the past 3 years he still is averaging a point a game. In this day in age that is very good in the NHL. Could he produce more? Sure..give him a good center.
Because Jagr is so good he can score a point a game in his sleep. jagr should still be the best offensive weapon in the game, and for the last three years that hasn't been the case.

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05-16-2005, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Because Jagr is so good he can score a point a game in his sleep. jagr should still be the best offensive weapon in the game, and for the last three years that hasn't been the case.
I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Jagr never wanted to leave Pittsburgh. When he was dealt, I truly believe he was crushed because A) he never wanted to leave Pittsburgh and B) when he was being dealt, he was under the impression that he was going to be going to New York. I don't think he ever wanted to be in Washington and it's clear that he was miserable there.

I know that I would love to have Jagr on my team. Defensive deficiencies aside, he is a point producing machine and is one of the all time greats. However, because his defense isn't the greatest, he wouldn't be a good fit in Philadelphia. Besides, I'm sure Hitchcock would find a way to ruin him as well.

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05-16-2005, 08:46 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
I know that I would love to have Jagr on my team. Defensive deficiencies aside, he is a point producing machine and is one of the all time greats. However, because his defense isn't the greatest, he wouldn't be a good fit in Philadelphia. Besides, I'm sure Hitchcock would find a way to ruin him as well.
Jagr is a tremendous talent, but I've seen him flat out quit 3-5 times in games I've been at in person. Lost a lot of respect for him.

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05-16-2005, 09:08 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
I know that I would love to have Jagr on my team. Defensive deficiencies aside, he is a point producing machine and is one of the all time greats. However, because his defense isn't the greatest, he wouldn't be a good fit in Philadelphia. Besides, I'm sure Hitchcock would find a way to ruin him as well.
The Jagr that we've seen the past few years is defensively poor. The Jagr that gives 100% isn't that bad. When Jagr is interested in playing, his tremendous hockey sense allows him to compete at both ends. I certainly wouldn't want him killing penalties but with his speed and strength he becomes quite useful in applying pressure in both zones (i.e., forechecking and backchecking).

Does anyone remember Bure's first game in a Ranger's uniform? The Rangers had given up three breakaways that game and Bure used his speed to catch the guy on two occassions. When he was interested in playing at both ends he was equal to the task. The same goes for Jagr and his first few games (especially on the line with E) - he was ready to play at both ends, because he wanted to.

I don't think it's because he's inept defensively, it just comes down to him not giving a ****. That, for me, has been the problem with him for the last few years and it's why I don't like him.

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05-16-2005, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE
People don't under-rate him. I've never seen or heard anyone under-rate him. Fans are just fed up with his type of player; the guy that demands millions to only play on select occassions. Fans are fed up with the guy that has everything, yet does nothing. It's not under-rating the guy, it's harping on him for not giving a ****. Both of which lead to a general discontent, which perhaps you've confused for under-rating. Everyone knows he's got tremendous skill but what good is that skill if you do not use it?

I liked what I saw from Jagr but until I see him play a full 82 game season, plus playoffs like he did in Austria, I'll continue to loathe is character.

For what it's worth he was nothing but class in the post-game media conference. So were the Canadians for that matter.
The title of this thread alone is under-rating his talents. Saying he is playing like he should....he was playing like that in NY as well. He just wasn't surrounded by the same talent like he was on Team Czech. Every Jagr thread I go to has plenty of people saying...hes not the same, blah blah blah..yea well hes not going to put up 130 points seasons anymore, hes not with 66 anymore and it seems to be 5x harder to score goals then it was 10 years ago. He was lazy in WSH? He still had a 35 goal/80 point season with them...sure he took a few nights off....just like 95% of EVERY NHL player...if only he wasn't lazy he would have had 70 goals/160 points. . The real reason most people attack Jagr every chance they get....salary. GET OVER IT.

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05-17-2005, 06:41 AM
  #19
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Considering Jagr was playing seriously hurt, and consistantly slashed over his injured hand to throw him off his game, he was awesome. His set up to Rucinsky was awesome. But I don't believe he will ever score as consistantly as he did w/
Pens when winging Mario in the prime.

I actually felt Hlavac was playing really well as well, getting praised by the comentators. The way he undressed Boyle on the blue line was legendary! should have scored!

Lundquist's play was also confidence inspiring.

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05-17-2005, 07:40 AM
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[QUOTE=FLYLine4LIFE]The title of this thread alone is under-rating his talents.QUOTE]

How is that? The title "the new jagr?" is implying that after a great world tournament have we seen the start of Jagr returning to the awesome form that made him the best player in the world. The point of thsi thread was to see wether or not the people on this board thought we might have the Jagr of the late 90's back, the guy that was the best in the league. Far from under-rating his talents I was asking if he has the love for the game back that, accompanied with his talents made him the best.

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05-17-2005, 08:25 AM
  #21
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He was lazy in WSH? He still had a 35 goal/80 point season with them...sure he took a few nights off....just like 95% of EVERY NHL player..
this is very true...no one in the NHL (hyperbole aside) really gives 100% every shift of every game. some guys are just better at "hiding" it than others...they're invisible for a game and don't do a whole lot but don't look like they're dogging it. with the NHL season being as long as it is, if guys don't pace themselves somewhat then they'll burn out at the end

Quote:
But I don't believe he will ever score as consistantly as he did w/ 66
this always comes up concerning jagr and i've seen pens fans say many times that he didn't actually play a lot with lemieux. plus he did win scoring titles after lemieux retired.


Quote:
I actually felt Hlavac was playing really well as well, getting praised by the comentators. The way he undressed Boyle on the blue line was legendary! should have scored!
hlavac is actually really skilled...he can pull some awesome moves and really is a great player...just for some reason it seems like he can't consistantly finish

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05-17-2005, 09:13 AM
  #22
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Hlavac played well?

when was this, when the season was over and he played with Jagr? I don't even remember him scoring many points at that point - but then again, didn't he have four goals all season?

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05-17-2005, 09:15 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
hlavac is actually really skilled...he can pull some awesome moves and really is a great player...just for some reason it seems like he can't consistantly finish
Sorry Lev, but great players finish.

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05-17-2005, 09:21 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
when was this, when the season was over and he played with Jagr? I don't even remember him scoring many points at that point - but then again, didn't he have four goals all season?

sorry I meant at the WC's


btw the TSN commentators commented that most CZ players play much better for the country than for the NHL team (Rucinsky, Reichel, etc). There is certainly good deal of truth in that.

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05-17-2005, 09:43 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan10
......because his defense isn't the greatest, he wouldn't be a good fit in Philadelphia..
Because his defense isn't the greatest, and because the Rangers defense was non-existant, he wouldn't be a good fit in New York.

I have no problem with Jagr the player, but Jagr the Ranger simply didn't make sense at the time he was aquired and frankly, makes pretty much zero sense now. He could some back and pile up points for the Rangers like it was 1991 all over again, and it wouldn't matter unless the entire philospohy over the organziation had done a 180 since the last game in 2004. Until the Rangers put themselves in a position to allow Jagr to help them, I can't get that excited about his mere presence.

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