HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Canucks fire Alain Vigneault, Rick Bowness and Newell Brown - Part II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-30-2013, 04:35 PM
  #251
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
They also anchored the Sedins down with the Edler-Bieksa pairing. In the regular season when the Sedins were with Hamhuis and Garrison they outscored the opposition by about 4:1 while 5-on-5. Instead of continuing that dominance in the playoffs, the coaching staff switched things up and fed an injured Bieksa and Edler tons of minutes with the Sedins. In fact, Garrison ended up with only about 2-3 more minutes all series with the Sedins than Corrado did.

The coaching staff's inability to recognize the effectiveness of Garrison (and Hamhuis to a lesser extent) at even strength is a pretty big mark against them. Bieksa should not have been playing nearly a minute more 5-on-5 per game in the regular season than Garrison and he absolutely should not have been playing 3.5 more minutes per game at even strength in the playoffs.
typically the coaching staff sheltered iffy d-pairings by playing them with the Sedins, like when they had Alberts and Barker as a pairing. Don't think we're putting our best foot forward when doing that.

Wisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 04:42 PM
  #252
luongo321
Registered User
 
luongo321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 11,823
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
typically the coaching staff sheltered iffy d-pairings by playing them with the Sedins, like when they had Alberts and Barker as a pairing. Don't think we're putting our best foot forward when doing that.
There is only one way to shelter that pairing. Make sure it never exists, not even in dreams. Hamhuis and Bieksa have had chemistry before. I was laughing pretty hard when AV and co. finally put them together in game 4. AV was almost desperate enough to even play ballard, but decided against it after the pregame skate. My guess is that if Ballard played amazingly and the nucks lost that av would have been worried that the management would be asking him why he never put in ballard in the first place. If that scenario played out, it would be another point against AV. I hate AV.

luongo321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 04:51 PM
  #253
Proto
Registered User
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,334
vCash: 833
I know there's some debate about whether burning a year on Corrado's ELC will hurt in terms of contract value moving forward, but I have a hard time imagining we wouldn't all be laughing heartily at any other franchise that did that, then got their teeth kicked in four straight.

Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 04:57 PM
  #254
PRNuck
Retain Kevin Lowe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,063
vCash: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I know there's some debate about whether burning a year on Corrado's ELC will hurt in terms of contract value moving forward, but I have a hard time imagining we wouldn't all be laughing heartily at any other franchise that did that, then got their teeth kicked in four straight.
Oh definitely, that was an epic fail.

PRNuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:01 PM
  #255
Linden*
[hello] :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 49,472
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I know there's some debate about whether burning a year on Corrado's ELC will hurt in terms of contract value moving forward, but I have a hard time imagining we wouldn't all be laughing heartily at any other franchise that did that, then got their teeth kicked in four straight.
Depends, if it is a highly touted player who will likely make a big impact in the next couple years then sure. Corrado is most likely going to be in the AHL next year, so I don't think his next contract is going to be big.

Imo if someone of Corrado's caliber has a year of their ELC used up by another team we wouldn't even be talking about it because it really doesn't matter.

Linden* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:07 PM
  #256
Proto
Registered User
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,334
vCash: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Depends, if it is a highly touted player who will likely make a big impact in the next couple years then sure. Corrado is most likely going to be in the AHL next year, so I don't think his next contract is going to be big.

Imo if someone of Corrado's caliber has a year of their ELC used up by another team we wouldn't even be talking about it because it really doesn't matter.
If they waste the last year of his 600k contract in the AHL, that still seems like a pretty epic waste of value. I think he'll end up in the NHL.

If I had to guess, Gillis will sign some junky #7 again like Joslin or Alberts, and the second someone inevitably gets hurt, waiver-free Frankie Corrado will be up with the big club. That's if he doesn't break camp with the squad.

I don't even know how it will shake out contract wise, but I do think most people would poke fun at another franchise that blew an ELC for one or two games over the minimum while having a 4.2 million dollar guy in the pressbox.

Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:07 PM
  #257
PRNuck
Retain Kevin Lowe
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,063
vCash: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Depends, if it is a highly touted player who will likely make a big impact in the next couple years then sure. Corrado is most likely going to be in the AHL next year, so I don't think his next contract is going to be big.

Imo if someone of Corrado's caliber has a year of their ELC used up by another team we wouldn't even be talking about it because it really doesn't matter.
No, if one of our rivals did that and got swept, I'd be lmao'ing.

PRNuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:14 PM
  #258
opendoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,300
vCash: 500
I didn't see the big deal with his ELC before it happened and I still don't. Any possibility of him breaking out and commanding a large raise in 2015 is more than offset by the likelihood that they'll get him on a cheaper contract in 2 years rather than 3. It's not like this affects his UFA age or anything.

Tanev is a good example. If you could extend his ELC another year would you? I probably wouldn't because I think right now is the best time to get him on a relatively cheap multi-year deal.

opendoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:15 PM
  #259
Linden*
[hello] :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Granduland
Country: United States
Posts: 49,472
vCash: 50
We deserve to get laughed at because of the Ballard situation, we royally ****ed that up, but let's not get that confused with us playing Corrado.

So you guys are saying that if we had Ballard/Barker in and got swept there wouldn't be questions as to why we didn't ice the best lineup? Both Ballard and Barker are liabilities in their own zone, so I don't blame us for icing the best avaliable lineup.

I really don't think anyone gives two ****s about Frankie Corrado outside of Vancouver. Being forced to give an extra 500 000 or so on his next contract is really nbd.

Linden* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:17 PM
  #260
pitseleh
Registered User
 
pitseleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
I didn't see the big deal with his ELC before it happened and I still don't. Any possibility of him breaking out and commanding a large raise in 2015 is more than offset by the likelihood that they'll get him on a cheaper contract in 2 years rather than 3. It's not like this affects his UFA age or anything.

Tanev is a good example. If you could extend his ELC another year would you? I probably wouldn't because I think right now is the best time to get him on a relatively cheap multi-year deal.
Yeah, this isn't really the type of player that will get a payday coming off his ELC whether it happens in two years or three.

That said, I do agree that people would be laughing their ass off if some other team did the same thing.

pitseleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:22 PM
  #261
Dissonance
Registered User
 
Dissonance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cabbage Patch
Posts: 1,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
I really don't think anyone gives two ****s about Frankie Corrado outside of Vancouver. Being forced to give an extra 500 000 or so on his next contract is really nbd.
No kidding. If Corrado ends up playing well enough that he can ask for $2 million+ in two years' time then that's a good problem to have.

This year's playoffs were a bust, obviously, but no self-respecting team should ever pass up the chance to ice the best line-up possible just to save a couple bucks a few years down the road. *That* would be a joke.

Dissonance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:36 PM
  #262
opendoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Yeah, this isn't really the type of player that will get a payday coming off his ELC whether it happens in two years or three.

That said, I do agree that people would be laughing their ass off if some other team did the same thing.
I think having a $4.2M 9th defenseman is the real joke of the situation.

IMO burning a year of Corrado's ELC is a defensible gamble even if he didn't play a minute of ice time. If he progresses into a top 4 defenseman over the next few years I think there's a good chance he'll earn less between now and becoming a UFA with a 2 year ELC than if he'd had a 3 year one. It also doesn't affect his waiver eligibility or his UFA age so I don't really see the big deal.

opendoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:46 PM
  #263
Proto
Registered User
 
Proto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,334
vCash: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Yeah, this isn't really the type of player that will get a payday coming off his ELC whether it happens in two years or three.

That said, I do agree that people would be laughing their ass off if some other team did the same thing.
He probably won't, no, but 600k is outrageously low. Even if he doesn't get a big pay day, that salary is going to be a savings of least least 300-400k on any NHL quality player, which isn't nothing.

I also tend to think he more offensive upside than a guy like Tanev, so there's at least some chance he could see 2nd unit PP at some point if Gillis sticks to his plan to put some kids in a position to learn the ropes next year. All it takes is a bit of a hot streak on the PP and some percentage-driven points to cost the team a bit of money moving forward.

Plus as a rule I always like to see a young player get as many games as possible before his contract is up to get an idea of what the team is working with. Corrado is going to come into his next contract with less -- potentially significantly less -- than 100 games played. That makes it harder for the club to determine dollars/term that benefits them most.

But yeah, mostly I just thought it was kind of funny. It's not like he played much at all in the post-season. Maybe Gillis actually wanted to burn off that year for the reason you and opendoor have mentioned...


Last edited by Proto: 05-30-2013 at 06:02 PM.
Proto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-30-2013, 05:49 PM
  #264
opendoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Maybe Gillis actually wanted to burn off that year for the reason you and opendoor have mentioned...
I can only hope so. If management actually thought losing a year of his ELC was a huge negative and still proceeded as they did, then...

opendoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 06:24 PM
  #265
rt
Usually Incorrect
 
rt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rarely Sober
Country: United States
Posts: 45,945
vCash: 500
Coyotes hired Newell Brown today. He'll join Dave Tippett and Jim Playfair on the bench.

Thoughts?

__________________
This poster should not be taken seriously under any circumstances.
rt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 06:27 PM
  #266
Pseudonymous
Registered User
 
Pseudonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,516
vCash: 500
My opinion, our PP was a joke and we had the pieces to have a much much better PP than it was. I didn't see any changes whatsoever when it was struggling. From the players chosen to the lack of of movement to the overall style, it was all a complete disaster IMO

Pseudonymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 06:28 PM
  #267
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Coyotes hired Newell Brown today. He'll join Dave Tippett and Jim Playfair on the bench.

Thoughts?
praised in 2011 for being the mastermind behind the best PP in the league....

ridiculed in 2013 for not being able to adapt and turn around an troubled PP with the same pieces that had so much success just a year and a half earlier.

NFITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 06:30 PM
  #268
Pseudonymous
Registered User
 
Pseudonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
praised in 2011 for being the mastermind behind the best PP in the league....

ridiculed in 2013 for not being able to adapt and turn around an troubled PP with the same pieces that had so much success just a year and a half earlier.
Doesn't take long for other teams to figure out a PP with as little movement and change of personnel as the canucks PP

Pseudonymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 06:33 PM
  #269
Barney Gumble
Registered User
 
Barney Gumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 21,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
praised in 2011 for being the mastermind behind the best PP in the league....

ridiculed in 2013 for not being able to adapt and turn around an troubled PP with the same pieces that had so much success just a year and a half earlier.
Seems to somewhat mirror the fate of a former Canuck head coach.

To be fair to Brown - team didn't have a true PP QB since Ehrhoff left.

Barney Gumble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 07:18 PM
  #270
Jack Tripper
I Don't Even...
 
Jack Tripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Perth, WA
Country: Australia
Posts: 6,315
vCash: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Seems to somewhat mirror the fate of a former Canuck head coach.

To be fair to Brown - team didn't have a true PP QB since Ehrhoff left.
i think the drop was less on ehrhoff's departure and more on kesler being out of the lineup for extended periods of time

brown couldn't devise a successful pp scheme that didn't heavily rely on kesler and couldn't adjust when he was out of the lineup, which was a pretty big deficiency

Jack Tripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 10:33 PM
  #271
vanuck
#Gaunce4GM
 
vanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,665
vCash: 500
It's hard to say how much Brown had to do with the PP struggles this year, if AV really had the final decision on the personnel that was put on those units - as was alluded to somewhere earlier.

But even then, what about the tactical part of it that should've remained his task? Plus it went cold over the 2nd half of 2011-12 and into the playoffs IIRC, and that would've been before such a change in responsibility took place anyway.

vanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2013, 11:46 PM
  #272
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,038
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
It's hard to say how much Brown had to do with the PP struggles this year, if AV really had the final decision on the personnel that was put on those units - as was alluded to somewhere earlier.

But even then, what about the tactical part of it that should've remained his task? Plus it went cold over the 2nd half of 2011-12 and into the playoffs IIRC, and that would've been before such a change in responsibility took place anyway.
Would be nice to have insider knowledge of why a huge shot like Garrison's was relegated to the 2nd unit.

Especially since it was so clear our PP suckage was costing us.

ddawg1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.