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Final countdown in Canes-Pack scheduling conflict

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05-25-2013, 01:19 PM
  #51
Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
I don't think that was the case. I mean, here's the original schedule http://hurricanes.nhl.com/v2/ext/sch...edule_List.pdf and that actually had FEWER mid-week home games (15) in the 82 game schedule then in the 48 game schedule (16). We really couldn't have asked for a ****tier schedule following the lockout.

But this, at least IMO, is NC State trying to flex its muscle. It's one thing if they're blocking off the Saturdays until the football schedule is announced. Quite frankly I would see that as a perfectly reasonable course of action to take on the AD's part. It's another thing entirely to block off 26 of 30 days in November and it just reeks of pettiness from the NC State AD.
The football schedule is already set, isn't it?

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05-25-2013, 01:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
The football schedule is already set, isn't it?
Just checked, yep. Packs has 3 of the 5 Saturdays tied up in football games that November.

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05-28-2013, 08:10 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Just checked, yep. Packs has 3 of the 5 Saturdays tied up in football games that November.
I'm thankful that they don't try to run football and hockey on the same day anymore. Anybody who went to those games can attest to the cluster**** and gridlock that resulted from it. Nothing will ever be worse than the day they tried having both while the State Fair was going on.

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05-29-2013, 06:28 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Gotta Catch Em Staal View Post
Oops sorry, meant to put the article link there.

By the way, total and average attendance per season:

NC State Basketball
2005: 245,898 (14,464)
2006: 260,509 (14,472)
2007: 279,035 (13,952)
2008: 240,682 (15,043)
2009: 242,206 (13,456)
2010: 224,131 (13,184)
2011: 220,457 (13,779)
2012: 257,638 (13,560)

Carolina Hurricanes
2005-06: 639,454 (15,596)
2006-07: 712,861 (17,386)
2007-08: 681,962 (16,633)
2008-09: 679,488 (16,572)
2009-10: 624,873 (15,240)
2010-11: 656,611 (16,415)
2011-12: 657,747 (16,042)
2012-13: 421,401 (17,558)

"Preferred user"
State averaged 16,300 this season with a good team finally... averaging 16,300 makes the upper level nothing close to a ghost town, by the way.

source


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05-31-2013, 08:46 PM
  #55
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I now see why we have no weekend games.

And seriously they do not need to hold on to 26 days in a 30 day month. That's just being a *****.

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05-31-2013, 09:05 PM
  #56
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Soooooo...the deadline is tomorrow.

Did this get resolved? I was tempted to email Debbie Yow to get her side of the story.

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05-31-2013, 09:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Soooooo...the deadline is tomorrow.

Did this get resolved? I was tempted to email Debbie Yow to get her side of the story.
Nope.
Still hasn't.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/05/...tentially.html

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05-31-2013, 09:49 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Soooooo...the deadline is tomorrow.

Did this get resolved? I was tempted to email Debbie Yow to get her side of the story.
Not resolved yet.

Quote:
The NHL releases its schedule in early July. If the dispute with N.C. State forces the Hurricanes to change game dates after the schedule is set, the league could fine the Canes $100,000 for each date that must be changed.
...
Rutherford wrote in the letter that Yow had sent an email that day to Olsen that said “further attempts to resolve this issue with the Athletic Department will be futile.”
...
On May 14, Rutherford wrote McCormick saying, “Moving forward, because we have been told by the N.C. State athletic department that it will not be as flexible as previous administrations, the number of events will be significantly reduced as more shows will skip PNC Arena due to the lack of available dates.”

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/05/...#storylink=cpy
Doesn't sound promising to get any deal done even as we get close.

The ACC has issues getting their schedules set in a reasonable time frame, but holding that many dates is simply unreasonable.

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06-01-2013, 10:45 AM
  #59
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This is getting ugly. Having connections with both organizations, I don't see how this reflects well on either of them.

The fact that Karmanos is being quoted in the N&O saying it hurts "the viability of hockey in this market" is not something that this organization or region needs.

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06-01-2013, 11:00 AM
  #60
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
This is getting ugly. Having connections with both organizations, I don't see how this reflects well on either of them.
How does it reflect poorly on the Canes (unless I misunderstand what you mean by that)? From everything I can tell, NC State is the entity being unreasonable here, particularly because it appears they hold none of the financial liability associated with operating deficits driven by their actions.

I realize there are two sides to every story, but comments about how it puts them at a competitive disadvantage because of playing 2 or 3 consecutive ACC road games is a sorry excuse. Put a consistently competitive team on the field / court before whining about 2 consecutive road games (and I am a State Fan).

Quote:
The fact that Karmanos is being quoted in the N&O saying it hurts "the viability of hockey in this market" is not something that this organization or region needs.
Agreed, and if that's what you meant by it doesn't reflect well on them, then I get where you are coming from.

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06-01-2013, 11:18 AM
  #61
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That's my take on it as well. If State wants to reserve that many dates as the priority tenant then they should also being willing to fork over the money to accommodate the losses incurred by others when their issues create scheduling conflicts. Right now they want to get all the benefits while seemingly holding none of the responsibility to ease financial burden on the stadium's operators (Gale Force Holdings) and the Hurricanes for issues that may be caused by this.

Frankly if anything State and their AD should be the ones covering at least an equal portion of the rescheduling fines when this happens if they want to remain the priority tenant for the arena due to their scheduling decisions.

That or the Canes could simply pull a serious dick move and go "OK, deadline's been passed, ACC and you guys haven't released your basketball schedule yet, so we'll honor the football schedule and tell the NHL not to schedule any games during that time frame, but you guys had the opportunity to work with us and neglected to do so therefore we're giving the NHL carte blanche to schedule games here any other time in the week. Deadlines have consequences."



That said, JR and Karmanos complaining about it in the paper is bad, and outright saying it's a threat to the team's viability in this market is unnecessary.

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06-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #62
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Agreed, and if that's what you meant by it doesn't reflect well on them, then I get where you are coming from.
Yep, that's what I mean. The optics here are that the Canes are a secondary partner in the process, and that their existence depends on the whims of a college administrator.

In b4 Karmanos setting up a relocation

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06-01-2013, 12:03 PM
  #63
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I just hope the main board doesn't get wind of this.

Actually, I do, the whining would be legendary.

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06-01-2013, 06:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Yep, that's what I mean. The optics here are that the Canes are a secondary partner in the process, and that their existence depends on the whims of a college administrator.

In b4 Karmanos setting up a relocation
State is within their rights on this. They are contractually given first dibs on dates. This has been the case since the arena opened. JR whining about past administrations being easier to deal with is laughable. He's upset because State finally has some competent people running its affairs. I still think this is all just a power play over how much control either side gets over scheduling.

That said there is a solution to be had and I suspect the reason a deal is not done is because the Canes don't want to meet State's asking price. That's why they took this thing public. It's an attempt to put pressure on State to cave. I'll believe all the doom and gloom about fines and lost money when some of it comes to pass. Until then its just a negotiating ploy.

And just stop with the relocation nonsense. Where exactly are the Canes going to move to? We saw all the permutations with the Coyotes and the answer was there was no good option on that front for the time being. Besides by the time a move could be orchestrated this little spat will have long been settled.

I'm a fan of both organizations and I hope they see reaching an agreement sooner than later benefits all involved.

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06-01-2013, 07:26 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Blown Away View Post
JR whining about past administrations being easier to deal with is laughable. He's upset because State finally has some competent people running its affairs.
Yes, I'm sure that this is happening because JR is upset that State has competent administrators. That explains it much better than having hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line.

Quote:
And just stop with the relocation nonsense.
Whoosh

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06-01-2013, 07:41 PM
  #66
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The reasoning given as to why State needs all those dates is ridiculous.

I understand its harder to win away games than home games, but frankly, State's not good enough to worry about that distinction. They need to learn how to win games...period...then they can flex their muscles and blah, blah, blah.

Besides, wouldn't having more away games help their strength of schedule?

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06-01-2013, 11:51 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Just checked, yep. Packs has 3 of the 5 Saturdays tied up in football games that November.
What time are the games? If the football game is at noon they can do a 7pm hockey/basketball game ---right?

I initially heard about this off of HNIC tonight. What is going on with this currently?

I have been to the Arena---know where exactly where it is and I almost went to NC State for grad school. I know that the football stadium and the Arena share the same parking lot and are next to each other.

At the time I lived in Virginia Beach and went to one of the Sabres-Canes playoff games.

The number of dates they are holding back is utterly nuts. From November-February NC State has about 18 home games?

In October-November NC State has about 5 football games?

That seems to be 23 dates needed.

this seems to screem some sort of power grab.

I recall learning there was some method to the madness of the ACC scheduling formula for basketball. In the PAC 12 there is a simpler scheduling algorthim where they pair schools such as USC-UCLA, Arizona-Arizona State, etc and they do a pair match up where from Thursday-Sunday there are two games On thursday/friday it could be ASU at UCLA and AZ at USC then on saturday/sunday its AZ at UCLA and ASU at USC. This goes on over 9 weeks for 18 games. the week they play the rival they they play only one game then have an open slot for an interconference game.

The ACC is the one that does most of the scheduling then NC State does the non conference. But if they set up standard play date like a Wed and Sunday then they dont need to save so many potential dates.


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06-01-2013, 11:53 PM
  #68
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I just hope the main board doesn't get wind of this.

Actually, I do, the whining would be legendary.
Too late----it was brought up on Hockey Night In canada during the broadcast of the Boston-Pittsburgh game. i think it was mentioned during the postgame talking.

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06-02-2013, 12:02 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
The reasoning given as to why State needs all those dates is ridiculous.

I understand its harder to win away games than home games, but frankly, State's not good enough to worry about that distinction. They need to learn how to win games...period...then they can flex their muscles and blah, blah, blah.

Besides, wouldn't having more away games help their strength of schedule?
NC State plays for a major conference so they generally do a schedule of splitting evenly home and away of in conference games. then with the 10-12 non conference games---its usually something like 70%-80% at home and the rest on the road.

Strength of schedule doesnt take into account home or away but other metrics do. Playing more games away helps this measure but it will likely hurt their record with more loses. When NC State or any major plays a strong small school if its on the road they likely lose---at home they win.

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06-02-2013, 08:37 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Yes, I'm sure that this is happening because JR is upset that State has competent administrators. That explains it much better than having hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line.



Whoosh
I understand why JR took this to the media. It's because the air of cooperation has apparently diffused somewhat in the last year. I would do the same thing, especially if I received a letter that said "further efforts to negotiate will be futile." NC State really has a nice deal going, not being responsible for any losses incurred at PNC. So, go ahead and act like dicks, I hope you get what you want. Another instance of Yow acting like she has something to prove. Which is confusing, because she's been at the helm of two large D-1 programs. She shouldn't *think* she has to prove anything. Maybe she has a Napoleon complex (substitute woman for short). Or maybe she's just an *******.

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06-02-2013, 01:12 PM
  #71
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Whoosh

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06-02-2013, 01:56 PM
  #72
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I understand why JR took this to the media. It's because the air of cooperation has apparently diffused somewhat in the last year. I would do the same thing, especially if I received a letter that said "further efforts to negotiate will be futile." NC State really has a nice deal going, not being responsible for any losses incurred at PNC. So, go ahead and act like dicks, I hope you get what you want. Another instance of Yow acting like she has something to prove. Which is confusing, because she's been at the helm of two large D-1 programs. She shouldn't *think* she has to prove anything. Maybe she has a Napoleon complex (substitute woman for short). Or maybe she's just an *******.
7 stars, you're good

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06-02-2013, 07:22 PM
  #73
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What I've learned from this thread is that if you call someone an ******* and you don't know them personally, you are a sexist. I always thought Steve Jobs was an ******* and I didn't know him personally, so I guess I'm a sexist?

Seriously though, I get that NC State legally has the right to block out dates, but it still doesn't make it right. I "legally" have a lot of rights that would royally piss off my neighbors, but it doesn't mean I should do it. Same goes here. IMO, they are being unreasonable (even if it is within their "legal right") and it doesn't make a lot of sense why.


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06-03-2013, 10:37 AM
  #74
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Yeah, this all because Debbie Yow is hard to get along with .

State's position in this matter is not determined by Yow. This was decided and approved by Chancellor Woodson and probably the Board of Trustees as well. If Woodson did not like Yow's stance on this matter he could change it. Given his public statements, it appears he is in full support.

Why is everything JR says considered the Gospel truth? Why is State being unreasonable? It's called negotiating. Have you ever bought a new car?

To the poster asking about football start times. That is controlled by ABC/ESPN and the times for most games (including all in November) are not announced until 2 weeks before hand.

Scheduling is handled primarily by the ACC and the release of the schedule is at its discretion.

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06-03-2013, 11:00 AM
  #75
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Yeah, this all because Debbie Yow is hard to get along with .
Yup. It does appear that way.

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State's position in this matter is not determined by Yow. This was decided and approved by Chancellor Woodson and probably the Board of Trustees as well. If Woodson did not like Yow's stance on this matter he could change it. Given his public statements, it appears he is in full support.
I was unaware you were a fly on the wall in Woodson's office. I'd wager it's just as likely that Woodson honestly doesn't give a rat's behind and trusts Yow to keep tabs on her own shop while he has his hands full with how to maintain the quality of academics, faculty, facilities, and research at State in a time when the legislature is sharpening its knives against higher ed. "OK, Director Yow - you say this is the right thing to do? I believe you. I have bigger fish to fry than this."

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Why is everything JR says considered the Gospel truth? Why is State being unreasonable? It's called negotiating. Have you ever bought a new car?
Let's say the 'Canes incur these massive fines that JR speaks of. Now let's say the 'Canes are (rightfully) pissed about being in the hole and decide to file a civil suit against NC State to recover what they had to pay out as a result of State's dallying. Those letters from JR suddenly become exhibits, either on their own or in an affidavit. It's generally a bad idea to lie in those. The courts tend to look down on that whole "perjury" thing.

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