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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 5)

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Old
10-02-2013, 11:06 AM
  #651
Eddy Punch Clock
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Trade Price now while he's still worth something....
Fire up the Luongo/Price trade machine!!!

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10-02-2013, 11:15 AM
  #652
Andy
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as long as the defense as well as team defense doesn't improve, changing goalies won't make much of a difference. The Habs give up too many quality scoring chances in a single game.

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10-02-2013, 11:49 AM
  #653
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I don't think that Lundqvist would've won the game for us last night. Maybe he makes some of the saves that Price let in but he'd just have let in others.


Look at the elite goalies in the league. Most of the time they play behind a great (sometimes elite) defense. It's rare to see goalies with the best numbers playing behind a bad D. Luongo did it and now we'll see if Thomas can. Usually though there's at least a good D out there in front of him.
That first paragraph is speculation on your part. I would be just as justified to say if we had switched goalies with TO last night we would have won. It's proof of nothing.

As for that laughable second paragraph well, I'm tried of hearing this crap that our defense is bad.

Is it the best? No. Is it elite? No. Is it among the better defense in the league? Yes.

Last year Price had one of the worst GAA and Save percentage in the league AND he was NOT playing behind one of the worst defence corps in the league.

Elite players make the players around them better. Average players make the players around them average.

You're trying to tell me that the Rangers', Kings', Red Wings' and a dozen other defence are vastly superior to the Habs? I don't buy it.

Your argument would be easier to swallow if we hadn't had Halak here. Halak also is not an elite goaltender but for a very short time in the playoffs he played like one behind an average defence whereas with the same defence Price was unable to do so. That showed me that an elite goalie will strut his stuff behind any defence. He may not always win but he will perform head and shoulders above his team mates.

Your next excuse will be to blame the system and Price has played under how many systems? 5? 6? And his eliteness has never emerged.

Anyway, despite my opinion about Price, it is only one game and I hope he can raise his level to a good - not an elite but a good - goaltender for the rest of the year.

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10-02-2013, 12:01 PM
  #654
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You're trying to tell me that the Rangers', Kings', Red Wings' and a dozen other defence are vastly superior to the Habs? I don't buy it.
Yes, if you have any knowledge of the game it would be very easy to see how bad our d is compared to them. We also play in an offensive system, whereas Boston, LA, NYR play defensive, helping goalie stats.

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10-02-2013, 12:03 PM
  #655
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Our D is not built for the Therrien-system. But I really don't think any D-corps in the league built for it. We would look much better with some adjustments, but y'know... Therrien.

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10-02-2013, 12:06 PM
  #656
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Carey Price was not good.

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Old
10-02-2013, 12:07 PM
  #657
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Carey Price was not good.
You didn't even see the game, you were in class while he stood on his head.

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10-02-2013, 12:07 PM
  #658
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Yes, if you have any knowledge of the game it would be very easy to see how bad our d is compared to them. We also play in an offensive system, whereas Boston, LA, NYR play defensive, helping goalie stats.
How about Columbus, Washington and Edmonton?

I've posted this once before, but now that the conversation is back here, I thought it worth posting one last time, a study of what happens when goalies change teams.

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10-02-2013, 12:12 PM
  #659
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Carey Price has disappoint me every year in his career. He was promised as our savior since he entered the league. He didn't really won the job over Chrsitobal Huet, Gainey jumped the gun and traded Huet. Price lost his job to Jaroslav Halak who was drafted #212 overall. He would have lost his job if we had better goaltending other than Peter redlight Budaj. Hopefully Zachary Fucale will be the next one. I don't know what the market is now for Price but .895% isn't going to get you far in this league. I would look to unload his $6.5 million for 6 years contract if there's any taker. I don't think he's got a shot at Team Canada.

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10-02-2013, 12:12 PM
  #660
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How about Columbus, Washington and Edmonton?

I've posted this once before, but now that the conversation is back here, I thought it worth posting one last time, a study of what happens when goalies change teams.
Edmonton's goalkeeper let in 3 goals yesterday, while Washington's let in 6. Clearly every single one of those goals were the goalies fault yesterday.

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Old
10-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #661
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Edmonton's goalkeeper let in 3 goals yesterday, while Washington's let in 6. Clearly every single one of those goals were the goalies fault yesterday.
Haha, well, ya, bad timing if we're looking at one game samples. I didn't see the Washington game, but Dubnyk was actually terrible yesterday, Edmonton should have won that game by a mile. But over a longer stretch, Dubnyk isn't that bad and Pavelec isn't that good. Dubnyk had a better save % than Price last season, and I don't think the Oilers' D had much to do with it.

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10-02-2013, 12:18 PM
  #662
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as long as the defense as well as team defense doesn't improve, changing goalies won't make much of a difference. The Habs give up too many quality scoring chances in a single game.
Andy - it's incredible how many people don't understand this.

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Old
10-02-2013, 12:25 PM
  #663
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That first paragraph is speculation on your part. I would be just as justified to say if we had switched goalies with TO last night we would have won. It's proof of nothing.
Of course it's speculative. Where the **** did I say it was proof? I flat out said that I don't think any goalie would've made a difference. I said I don't think he makes any difference - and based on our play and the scoring chances given up last night, I'm comfortable with that opinion.
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As for that laughable second paragraph well, I'm tried of hearing this crap that our defense is bad.
Too bad. Get used to hearing it because they absolutely suck defensively. And that's not speculative.
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Is it the best? No. Is it elite? No. Is it among the better defense in the league? Yes.
Offensively? Sure. It's probably the very best. In our own zone and with defensive coverage though? Not on your life.
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Last year Price had one of the worst GAA and Save percentage in the league AND he was NOT playing behind one of the worst defence corps in the league.
He was a vezina candidate until the last two weeks of the season. Then Emelin went away and we played like crap. Price sucked against Toronto... but after that our whole team sucked. And it's not like Emelin is Rod Langway either. He's just the best we had.
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Elite players make the players around them better. Average players make the players around them average.

You're trying to tell me that the Rangers', Kings', Red Wings' and a dozen other defence are vastly superior to the Habs? I don't buy it.
I don't care if you buy it. Our D sucks.
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Your argument would be easier to swallow if we hadn't had Halak here. Halak also is not an elite goaltender but for a very short time in the playoffs he played like one behind an average defence whereas with the same defence Price was unable to do so. That showed me that an elite goalie will strut his stuff behind any defence. He may not always win but he will perform head and shoulders above his team mates.

Your next excuse will be to blame the system and Price has played under how many systems? 5? 6? And his eliteness has never emerged.
Our D from a few years ago was actually pretty good. Losing Hamrlyk, Gill and having Gorges turn into **** is what's killed us. Totally different squads dude.
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Anyway, despite my opinion about Price, it is only one game and I hope he can raise his level to a good - not an elite but a good - goaltender for the rest of the year.
Subban is the only really good defender we have. Please tell me where you disagree 'cause I'd love to hear it.

Subban: Great all-around defender, doesn't get enough icetime.
Markov: Very creative. Maybe the best PP guy in the league. Slow, defensive liability
Diaz: Creative, defensive liability, soft as a marshmallow.
Gorges: Seriously... wtf happened to this guy?
Bouillion: Stands up for his teammates, has heart. Can't play hockey.
Tinordi: Raw rookie. Great future but is a total X factor right now.

That's our ****ing defense dude. With the puck we've got three creative guys. Without it we're disastrous. And as I said today Bouillion might has well been playing for the other team.

It's not that our blueline has no talent dude... nobody said this. It's just very one dimensional. We don't have that shutdown guy you can lean on and it kills us. We've always had good D and we used to struggle to score goals. Now that's been turned on it's head. We can score but we can't defend. You can blame the goalie but I'm pretty sure if we had a Cobourn guy as a number 2 or 3 guy we'd be in great shape. Diaz and Markov together is disastrous for us. Markov is a defensive liability now.

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Old
10-02-2013, 12:29 PM
  #664
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Lol are you kidding me? This happens all the time and it has happened to the Brodeurs, Roys and Haseks of the past. Just look at Crawford last night, he had an amazing game and still let in 4.
You can't use any of those goalies to excuse Price's play. All of them have played at a very high level when needed to and won a cup.

Price is paid like a great goalie but turns in average performances most of the time. If he was paid like a 20-25 goalie I wouldn't be as critical but when you make top tier money, you need to play like a top tier goalie consistently.

Nothing about last night's performance was "amazing" or even close to that.

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10-02-2013, 12:29 PM
  #665
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's no point discussing Price's shortcomings when he doesn't have an NHL caliber defense in front of him.

Subban-Norris
Markov-old and slow. Great on the PP but can't keep up in his own zone anymore.
Tinordi-too raw.
Bouillon-plays with fire but too old now. Small as well.
Gorges-not big enough.
Diaz-too bad you have to play defense as a defenseman.
Murray-new but old and injured.
Drewiske-not seen enough of him.
Beaulieu-too young, not given a chance yet.
Emelin-injured but exactly what we're missing. Without him there's no balance.

We need to build our D as:

Tinordi-Subban
Beaulieu-Emelin
Murray-x

Who fills the hole when Emi comes back?

Next summer with Markov and Gionta coming off the books, we need to revamp our defense. Lots of work to do here. Forget about Dietz, Thower and all of them. Ellis is the only one who is really built for what we need. Maybe call him up? I don't know what else to do.

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10-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #666
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You didn't even see the game, you were in class while he stood on his head.

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10-02-2013, 12:41 PM
  #667
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Carey Price has disappoint me every year in his career. He was promised as our savior since he entered the league. He didn't really won the job over Chrsitobal Huet, Gainey jumped the gun and traded Huet. Price lost his job to Jaroslav Halak who was drafted #212 overall. He would have lost his job if we had better goaltending other than Peter redlight Budaj. Hopefully Zachary Fucale will be the next one. I don't know what the market is now for Price but .895% isn't going to get you far in this league. I would look to unload his $6.5 million for 6 years contract if there's any taker. I don't think he's got a shot at Team Canada.
Do you honestly expect Price to go the whole season without a game under a .900 SV%? Because you're going to be massively disappointed by every goalie int he league if you do.

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10-02-2013, 12:41 PM
  #668
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Price is starting to look like Pavalec. He should be good, and at times looks great, but just isnt consistent enough and lets in too many bone head goals

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10-02-2013, 12:44 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
Carey Price has disappoint me every year in his career. He was promised as our savior since he entered the league. He didn't really won the job over Chrsitobal Huet, Gainey jumped the gun and traded Huet. Price lost his job to Jaroslav Halak who was drafted #212 overall. He would have lost his job if we had better goaltending other than Peter redlight Budaj. Hopefully Zachary Fucale will be the next one. I don't know what the market is now for Price but .895% isn't going to get you far in this league. I would look to unload his $6.5 million for 6 years contract if there's any taker. I don't think he's got a shot at Team Canada.




?

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10-02-2013, 12:44 PM
  #670
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10-02-2013, 12:44 PM
  #671
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The whole Halak era defense was severely underrated. Gill-Hamrlik-Gorges and Spacek + Subban is better than what we have now by a country mile. The forward group in front of that D had very little talent, but the D was good and showed they were good into the next season where Price had a stellar year as well and the Habs finished 6th.

I'd insert the 2010-2011 Hamrlik over any d-man not named Subban.


Last edited by Andy: 10-02-2013 at 12:53 PM.
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Old
10-02-2013, 12:48 PM
  #672
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Anyways, most of the Price Haters are the same ones that thought Eller should be traded, when little Davey had one good season. But forget going that far back, most of the Price Haters are the same ones that said Eller sucked after his two final preseason games lol.

If it wasn't for Price, we loose 7-3 easily. Please tell me in what world is Kessel aloud to repeatedly come in uncontested and let go of of his rocket wrister at Price low blocker. Ya but our Defense is amazing

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10-02-2013, 12:51 PM
  #673
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's no point discussing Price's shortcomings when he doesn't have an NHL caliber defense in front of him.

Subban-Norris
Markov-old and slow. Great on the PP but can't keep up in his own zone anymore.
Tinordi-too raw.
Bouillon-plays with fire but too old now. Small as well.
Gorges-not big enough.
Diaz-too bad you have to play defense as a defenseman.
Murray-new but old and injured.
Drewiske-not seen enough of him.
Beaulieu-too young, not given a chance yet.
Emelin-injured but exactly what we're missing. Without him there's no balance.

We need to build our D as:

Tinordi-Subban
Beaulieu-Emelin
Murray-x

Who fills the hole when Emi comes back?

Next summer with Markov and Gionta coming off the books, we need to revamp our defense. Lots of work to do here. Forget about Dietz, Thower and all of them. Ellis is the only one who is really built for what we need. Maybe call him up? I don't know what else to do.
I can do that for any defense in the NHL. If you want to only look at zits/flaws no defense in the NHL is good.

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10-02-2013, 12:52 PM
  #674
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Anyways, most of the Price Haters are the same ones that thought Eller should be traded, when little Davey had one good season. But forget going that far back, most of the Price Haters are the same ones that said Eller sucked after his two final preseason games lol.

If it wasn't for Price, we loose 7-3 easily. Please tell me in what world is Kessel aloud to repeatedly come in uncontested and let go of of his rocket wrister at Price low blocker. Ya but our Defense is amazing
He continued to make big saves late in the game, after which Eller scored SH to bring the game into one. He made two huge stops on that PK.

Imagine, Price played really good and still lost. The fact that he needed to play "out of his mind" to win says less about Price and more about the team in front of him.

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10-02-2013, 12:54 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by ReppingMTL View Post
Anyways, most of the Price Haters are the same ones that thought Eller should be traded, when little Davey had one good season. But forget going that far back, most of the Price Haters are the same ones that said Eller sucked after his two final preseason games lol.

If it wasn't for Price, we loose 7-3 easily. Please tell me in what world is Kessel aloud to repeatedly come in uncontested and let go of of his rocket wrister at Price low blocker. Ya but our Defense is amazing
If you are paid top tier money...the expectations rise. Excuses are no longer acceptable. People don't get this.

The D excuse is getting old.

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