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Vancouver Cap Problems

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Old
05-24-2013, 01:11 PM
  #101
Cloudedthought
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So a Toronto fan decides to dissect Vancouvers cap issues in a attempt to rehash the value of Lou. Think Canuck fans can ignore these type of threads in the future as its purely trolling and a weak attempt at it.

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05-24-2013, 01:13 PM
  #102
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
It's about using the buy-outs as assets, rather than simply as a buy-out for a team's own players. These buy-outs must carry value as assets. I am just curious what value they might have. A contract like Bryzgalov's must be worth a top prospect or a mid first round pick.
1. Snider is one of the richest and most competitive owners in the NHL. It's a stretch to think he'd greenlight weakening his on ice product, instead of simply buying out Bryz.


2. I doubt any owner pays $23m in buyout money, so he can land a mid first rounder or top prospect.

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05-24-2013, 01:15 PM
  #103
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
It makes it interesting for rich teams.
I thought it made for fantasy trades, for fans of deep pocketed teams.

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05-24-2013, 01:15 PM
  #104
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Even though the Devils do need to address their goaltending situation, I would be furious with Lou if he takes the Luongo contract.

9 more years for a 34 year old at 5.3 mil per year? No thanks. Salary isn't even the issue it's the years.

If Vancouver buys out the contract I'd gladly take him at the same cap hit for 2 or 3 years. Definitely not 9 though.

I can't see any logical reason for any GM to take that contract. Even teams in a win now mode can find other options.

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05-24-2013, 01:16 PM
  #105
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Canucks have a lot of room if you take out ruined assets Ballard, Luongo and Booth.

As far as Luongo goes, I have seen little mention of the partial contract trade. A team can now retain up to fifty percent of a contract in a trade. Luongo is not going to be bought out by Aquilini, so I expect some sort of percentage deal.

Something else, if Schneider is on the American Olympic team in some capacity. he will be playing an unreasonable amount of games. A second goalie might come in handy. Other Olympic options may include parking a player on a National Team roster somewhere.

Vancouver will probably be very conservative this off-season. They will dump salaries and add minor signings.

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05-24-2013, 01:17 PM
  #106
Ho Borvat
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
That's a fantasy trade for NYI fans because it does nothing for Vancouver. The Canucks wouldn't make such a trade imo.

Luongo: healthy and productive nhler, can be traded for a low return if Vancouver eats some salary.


DiPietro: hasn't been very healthy or productive over the last 5 seasons. Is now an ahl player. He has negative trade value.

Thats the point he was making.

If Gillis wanted to he could have traded Luongo by now for way less than market value.

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05-24-2013, 01:18 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Luongo for Briere

Edler + Van 2013 1st for Couts + 1st/Talbot & 2013 2nd & 2014 2nd
Briere with his custody issues cant go clear accross the country and further then that's why he would'nt waive his NTC to play for another team he will most likely have to stay in the Northeast The Sabres, Devils might be logical choices.

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05-24-2013, 01:19 PM
  #108
Ho Borvat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
1. Snider is one of the richest and most competitive owners in the NHL. It's a stretch to think he'd greenlight weakening his on ice product, instead of simply buying out Bryz.

2. I doubt any owner pays $23m in buyout money, so he can land a mid first rounder or top prospect.
Hes also a fossil and probably wants to win before he croaks..

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05-24-2013, 01:19 PM
  #109
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My perfect off-season plan;

Sign + Trade - Mason Raymond to an eastern organization that he feels he could excel in.
retain up to ~1M and trade Ballard for Pick/Prospect
Keep services of David Booth.
Use Amnesty Buyouts for teams with unsavory contracts (Florida/NYI/etc) for players/prospects
Trade Luongo for picks/prospects (essentially *free*)
Go hard for David Clarkson, and few RFAs.

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Old
05-24-2013, 01:22 PM
  #110
Spazmatic Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Oh, that's right. I forgot. Toronto no longer needs a starter. Don't forget the Leafs had that series won, until Reimer's collapse. Can you say 'Dan Cloutier'? Dave Nonis lived through Cloutier. Nonis realized he needs to upgrade at goalie, if his team is going to advance.
So Reimer, in his first post season dance and his 3rd year in the NHL...who was easily the Leafs' hero in many of the games in that series especially at times when the Leafs could not get the puck out of their zone to save their lives...who posted excellent stats in the season overall and who is 25 years old...should be replaced because they lost game 7 in epic fashion.

You are kidding right?

That, IMO, is just silly.

I could see the Leafs pursuing a backup goalie with some experience because nobody is denying Reimer does have work to do on his game (key word - backup) but to replace him would be dumb.

Leafs should not be in the market for Luongo anymore.

I could see the Islanders except the monetary boundary could come up. Devils might be a possibility but I doubt they would want a cap hit that high until Marty decides to hang them up. Winnipeg? I dunno, I think they stick with Pavelec for the time being but I could be wrong.

Adding to the problem of moving him is the availability of some decent goalie talent that while is probably not as good as Luongo (with the possible exception of Backstrom) might be more attractive depending on price.

I'm not saying it will be impossible to move him, but I don't think it will be as easy as some expect.

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05-24-2013, 01:25 PM
  #111
Peter Griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
How do Vancouver fans feel about a trade like this

Schneider
Edler

For

Hartnell
Coburn
1st in 13 (#11)
I feel the Canucks are giving up the two most valuable assets in the deal.

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05-24-2013, 01:25 PM
  #112
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Thats the point he was making.

If Gillis wanted to he could have traded Luongo by now for way less than market value.
I haven't disagreed, that Vancouver couldn't have traded Luongo for a low return or by eating salary.

I've disagreed that a deep pocketed team like Philly, would give up young talent to avoid a Bryz buyout or that Wang, facing the chance to make significant money with his Barclay's connections/move, would weak his on ice product to avoid a $1.5m per buyout.

Only out of town press and fans, seem to think Wang can't afford a $1.5m per buyout.

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05-24-2013, 01:26 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
1. Snider is one of the richest and most competitive owners in the NHL. It's a stretch to think he'd greenlight weakening his on ice product, instead of simply buying out Bryz.


2. I doubt any owner pays $23m in buyout money, so he can land a mid first rounder or top prospect.
So, you are saying these 'buyouts' will not be used as assets? I think you're wrong on that point. Perhaps rich owners (Snider) will use them as I have suggested, rather than on their own players. It was probably the rich owners who pushed for these 'buyouts' in the contract negotiations, realizing they could be used in that manner. Play-off games bring in a lot of money, and so do winning teams, especially in the top markets.


Last edited by Alflives*: 05-24-2013 at 01:32 PM.
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Old
05-24-2013, 01:32 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazmatic Dan View Post
So Reimer, in his first post season dance and his 3rd year in the NHL...who was easily the Leafs' hero in many of the games in that series especially at times when the Leafs could not get the puck out of their zone to save their lives...who posted excellent stats in the season overall and who is 25 years old...should be replaced because they lost game 7 in epic fashion.

You are kidding right?
Nonis lived through the Cloutier years in Vancouver: a mid level goalie, who crumpled. Nonis had a good team then too, much like the current Leafs. If Riemer does his job in game 7, the Leafs win that series, and go deep into the playoffs. Nonis is looking for another guy. It could be Luongo, or Miller, or Smith, but he is looking for a starter, not a back-up.

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05-24-2013, 01:36 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
So your not very confident he will be bought out it sounds like..
I think the wise move is to just to cut their loses and buy him out.. Them doing that...the way they have been talking of trading Luongo ...but it hasnt happened.

This is why I wish instead of a buyout, the teams would be allowed to restructure the deal/totally wipe off the year on the contract. thus Vancouver could then change this contract to something like 3 yr/$12M total and wipe out everything else. Then he would still have trade value

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05-24-2013, 01:36 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I 100% agree with you. The same thing can be said for Philly buying out Bryz.
I think Bryz is a far more likely buyout than Luongo:

1) The owners in Philly have deeper pockets. Aquillini is rich, but not as rich as Comcast. Plus Aquilini is going through a divorce and most of his money is tied up in Vancouver real estate, which is taking a big hit.

2) The actual cost of a buyout for Bryz is cheeper. Lu has 40 million left on his contract vs. the 35 on Bryz's. I know, not an astronomical difference, but a factor.

3) Removing Bryz from the equation is far more likely to have a positive impact on the franchise and the profitability of the Flyers, than buying out Luongo. People will continue to go to Canucks games regardless of who the goalie is. It's the only show in town. The Flyers will always have an excellent fan base, but there is far more potential to reach into new pockets by icing a successful team. The Canucks are already at their capacity, and that's unlikely to wane much.

4) Luongo is still pretty good. The option of trading Schneider and playing Luongo remains.

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05-24-2013, 01:36 PM
  #117
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
So, your saying these 'buyouts' will not be used as assets? I think you're wrong on that point. Perhaps rich owners (Snider) will use them as I have suggested, rather than on their own players. It was probably the rich owners who pushed for these 'buyouts' in the contract negotiations, realizing they could be used in that manner. Play-off games bring in a lot of money, and so do winning teams, especially in the top markets.
I'm saying the 'let's trade for someone else's buyout and get several top prospects in exchange' is a fantasy.

A rich owner like Snider, would buyout his own mistake.

Wang's business interest with the Barclay's owners, gets more intertwined by the day.
Both need a strong on ice product going into Brooklyn. Wang's not weakening his on ice product over $1.5m per and Vancouver is not paying $24m for 1 top prospect or a mid 1st rounder.

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05-24-2013, 01:45 PM
  #118
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Its basic liquidity.

I could list my house tomorrow for 50$ and it would be gone within an hour.


But I would rather have it on the market for a year and get something resembling market value.
What happens if you know the neighbourhood of said house is going downhill, pipes are beginning to burst and the overall conditions will no longer be liveable 3 years down the road. Te property taxes will be well above what your prepared to pay on a house in such rough shape but your obligated to pay the mandatory fees for the next decade. Is it worth $50 in that situation?

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05-24-2013, 01:48 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
What happens if you know the neighbourhood of said house is going downhill, pipes are beginning to burst and the overall conditions will no longer be liveable 3 years down the road. Te property taxes will be well above what your prepared to pay on a house in such rough shape but your obligated to pay the mandatory fees for the next decade. Is it worth $50 in that situation?
Ahh, but he was talking about basic liquidity, where clearly you're talking about advanced liquidity

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05-24-2013, 01:50 PM
  #120
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudedthought View Post
So a Toronto fan decides to dissect Vancouvers cap issues in a attempt to rehash the value of Lou. Think Canuck fans can ignore these type of threads in the future as its purely trolling and a weak attempt at it.
This has nothing to do with Luongo and nothing to do with me being a Leaf fan. This is the most interesting cap situation since Chicago after they won the cup. Just trying to see the possible avenues they can take to rid themselves of the hole they are in. Gosh some people are so defensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Nonis lived through the Cloutier years in Vancouver: a mid level goalie, who crumpled. Nonis had a good team then too, much like the current Leafs. If Riemer does his job in game 7, the Leafs win that series, and go deep into the playoffs. Nonis is looking for another guy. It could be Luongo, or Miller, or Smith, but he is looking for a starter, not a back-up.
Reimer out played all 3 goalies mentioned 2/3 seasons he's played plus this years playoffs. In which way is any of the mentioned goalies an upgrade?

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05-24-2013, 01:54 PM
  #121
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Canucks can say goodbye to Ballard and Booth whether it be amesty buyout or trade. That's 8.4 million free. Mason Raymond is completely going to be on another team next season unless he's prepared to take a drastic paycut.

Luongo will not be bought out, he will be eventually traded. The return has been discussed to death but he will be moved, perhaps for pennies on the dollar.

The canucks could easily go the youth route for next season and role with schroeder, kassian, corrado, gaunce, jensen, etc playing a larger role. Tanev will defintely be retained. Edler could be a candidate to moved.

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05-24-2013, 01:55 PM
  #122
Peter Griffin
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Only out of town press and fans, seem to think Wang can't afford a $1.5m per buyout.
Doesn't it make more sense to spend that extra $1.5M on Luongo, a definite upgrade over what the team already has, if the cost to acquire is somewhat modest? I guess the sticking point would be on what else the Isles would offer the Canucks?

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05-24-2013, 02:02 PM
  #123
Ho Borvat
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
What happens if you know the neighbourhood of said house is going downhill, pipes are beginning to burst and the overall conditions will no longer be liveable 3 years down the road. Te property taxes will be well above what your prepared to pay on a house in such rough shape but your obligated to pay the mandatory fees for the next decade. Is it worth $50 in that situation?
I don't think this is a good example because the house I am referring to is one of the top-5 nicest houses in the world...I really don't think I would be that concerned about living conditions of this house...

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05-24-2013, 02:04 PM
  #124
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Nonis lived through the Cloutier years in Vancouver: a mid level goalie, who crumpled. Nonis had a good team then too, much like the current Leafs. If Riemer does his job in game 7, the Leafs win that series, and go deep into the playoffs. Nonis is looking for another guy. It could be Luongo, or Miller, or Smith, but he is looking for a starter, not a back-up.
So lets see if i have this....Nonis is going to "upgrade" by aquiring 1 of:
Miller (missed playoffs)
Smith (missed playoffs)
Or
Luongo (only played because Schnieder was hurt and didn't win a game in the playoffs)

Reimer pretty much outplayed all of these guys....how exactly is this an upgrade?

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Old
05-24-2013, 02:07 PM
  #125
The Podium
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I don't think this is a good example because the house I am referring to is one of the top-5 nicest houses in the world...I really don't think I would be that concerned about living conditions of this house...
He was outplayed by 14 of 22 goalies in the playoffs and 48 goalies in the regular season he's in the pre Montreal Gomez position right now, his contract more valuable than his current play and his team looking to unload him. Now lets see if anyone is as dumb as Montreal was.

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