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Who's in and who's out next season?

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Old
06-04-2013, 06:15 PM
  #226
Stylizer1
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Bishop could have gotten us better help this offseason than Conacher and a pick.

Lehner didn't really need to be the back up for the rest of the season and should of really helped bingo.

We should have received more.

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06-04-2013, 06:32 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
We should have received more.
A 2nd round pick vs Conacher isn't that much more.

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06-04-2013, 06:54 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Bishop could have gotten us better help this offseason than Conacher and a pick.

Lehner didn't really need to be the back up for the rest of the season and should of really helped bingo.

We should have received more.
Available goalies this off season Luongo, Emery, Bernier, Miller, Smith, probably bryzgalov. Yup should of held off until the off season. PS Bishop is not that good.

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06-04-2013, 07:02 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
Available goalies this off season Luongo, Emery, Bernier, Miller, Smith, probably bryzgalov. Yup should of held off until the off season. PS Bishop is not that good.
I dont see why Bishop can't develop into a solid NHL starter. As you eluded, the market is flooded with goalies which is why i think Murray pulled the trigger on the deal that he made.

IT was a fair trade, i still feel that way.

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06-04-2013, 07:07 PM
  #230
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I dont see why Bishop can't develop into a solid NHL starter. As you eluded, the market is flooded with goalies which is why i think Murray pulled the trigger on the deal that he made.

IT was a fair trade, i still feel that way.
It was a very fair trade. Bishop COULD develop into a decent goalie, And your correct Murray struck while he could get the most back in a trade. People just seem to overrate Bishop on here, what exactly did people think you were going to get for him ???

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06-04-2013, 07:10 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
It was a very fair trade. Bishop COULD develop into a decent goalie, And your correct Murray struck while he could get the most back in a trade. People just seem to overrate Bishop on here, what exactly did people think you were going to get for him ???
Agreed

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06-04-2013, 07:23 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
Available goalies this off season Luongo, Emery, Bernier, Miller, Smith, probably bryzgalov. Yup should of held off until the off season. PS Bishop is not that good.
Buffalo
Calgary
Philly
NJ
Tampa
Phoenix
Edmonton
Colorado
NYI
Florida

All of these teams would be in the market for a young Goalie who could be their #1. Tampa lacks good D which would expose most goalies. There only so many goalies to go around and Bryz won't even be in the NHL for much longer. Brodeur will soon retire and Nabokov will be 38 this summer and is a UFA.

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06-04-2013, 07:32 PM
  #233
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So these teams will offer more now, wouldn't these teams have the same needs a couple of months ago when Bishop was traded ? Suddenly with more available goalies after the season they will give up more for Bishop now ?

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06-04-2013, 07:52 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
So these teams will offer more now, wouldn't these teams have the same needs a couple of months ago when Bishop was traded ? Suddenly with more available goalies after the season they will give up more for Bishop now ?
Like I said there are only so many goalies to go around and when teams get desperate the over pay.

All teams have a better opportunity at improving their team over the summer as opposed to the trade deadline. Seeing as we have the 17th pick this season, Bishop and a 1st for a roster player doesn't seem crazy on a team looking to improve their goaltending. Throw in a top prospect and you have the makings of a really good player coming back in a trade.

For instance Bishop, 1st, and Ceci for Eberle would be an over payment on our part but would likely gain some interest from Edmonton.

If Miller leaves Buffalo: Bishop, 1st, Puempel for Vanek

Just saying putting Bishop in a straight up trade might not bring back a lot but putting him in a package would make it so much more appealing.

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06-04-2013, 07:54 PM
  #235
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The conacher trade was really a lateral move. Given that it involved Bishop, I was extremely surprised the league didn't step in and deem it illegal.

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06-04-2013, 08:02 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Like I said there are only so many goalies to go around and when teams get desperate the over pay.

All teams have a better opportunity at improving their team over the summer as opposed to the trade deadline. Seeing as we have the 17th pick this season, Bishop and a 1st for a roster player doesn't seem crazy on a team looking to improve their goaltending. Throw in a top prospect and you have the makings of a really good player coming back in a trade.

For instance Bishop, 1st, and Ceci for Eberle would be an over payment on our part but would likely gain some interest from Edmonton.

If Miller leaves Buffalo: Bishop, 1st, Puempel for Vanek

Just saying putting Bishop in a straight up trade might not bring back a lot but putting him in a package would make it so much more appealing.
Over payment for Eberle !!! Really !!!! That little for Vanek Really. OK I now understand you think you can give up next to nothing and get prime players. I can't argue that.

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06-04-2013, 08:43 PM
  #237
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As to Conacher, I didn't particularly like the deal but Murray made it when small players who go to the net were in vogue ie... MTL was having a great regular season with small forwards and some other smallish crash the net type players were doing well on other teams. Then the playoffs came and we see the value of biggish but fast players (big slowpokes need not apply ...ex Latendresse... unless they can regularly put the puck in the net) The sudden rise of JG Pageau probably changes things too. You can only have so many smallish players unless they really wow you night in and night out and are basically indestructible bouncing balls when hit. I still like Conacher and he may pan out but it will also depend on how well other guys develop since someone still has to beat him out of a left wing job which is not our strongest side.

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06-04-2013, 08:50 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
Over payment for Eberle !!! Really !!!! That little for Vanek Really. OK I now understand you think you can give up next to nothing and get prime players. I can't argue that.
So you think a team is going to give a starting goalie and a good Dman for Eberle?

You think a team is going to give a starting goalie, a top forward for Vanek?

Positions both of these teams will be in need of and have a chance at addressing them.

Buffalo and Edmonton are teams nowhere near contenders and need to develop a core of players moving forward. Adding a pick allows these teams who have missed the playoffs another opportunity to address their needs on draft day while having a goalie who can step in and start for them. Add a cheap top prospect who would probably see playing time and that fills some holes.

On the sens end overpaying without removing any of our immediate depth is a good move if we get what we need.

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06-04-2013, 09:52 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
A 2nd round pick vs Conacher isn't that much more.
It's arguably less.

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06-04-2013, 09:57 PM
  #240
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Conacher was and still is a solid pick up. He's only 23 and managed 30 points in 47 games. He has also already proved that he can play with elite players(St Louis, Stamkos), at least for stretches. That can be useful down the line, and who knows, maybe he sticks with Spezza eventually.

He's still very much a work in progress because of what has already been said; his defensive game, positioning, lack of shooting, etc. Be that as it may though, even if he doesn't pan out Murray can eventually trade him and if not he gets buried beneath our depth and we have one less player that belongs on the Habs!

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06-04-2013, 10:16 PM
  #241
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Could we have gotten more for Bishop? Maybe, but I could easily see a scenario where we would have been Vancouver, stuck with an extra goalie who we couldn't move for fair value. Keep in mind that Bishop needed a new contract also. Come summer, we would have been the ones on a deadline, with three goalies with one way contracts on our roster. We got a very fair return for Bishop, a guy who only ever cost us a second round pick. We needed to clear that logjam in goal and get a player who can play in the NHL, and we did that. Let's give Conacher a full camp and half a season before we throw him under the bus...

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06-04-2013, 10:20 PM
  #242
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I see Conacher as potential trade bait at the draft or during the summer to get that coveted top six forward.

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06-04-2013, 10:22 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenix Rises 2026 View Post
The conacher trade was really a lateral move. Given that it involved Bishop, I was extremely surprised the league didn't step in and deem it illegal.

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06-04-2013, 10:27 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Larionov View Post
Could we have gotten more for Bishop? Maybe, but I could easily see a scenario where we would have been Vancouver, stuck with an extra goalie who we couldn't move for fair value. Keep in mind that Bishop needed a new contract also. Come summer, we would have been the ones on a deadline, with three goalies with one way contracts on our roster. We got a very fair return for Bishop, a guy who only ever cost us a second round pick. We needed to clear that logjam in goal and get a player who can play in the NHL, and we did that. Let's give Conacher a full camp and half a season before we throw him under the bus...
Agreed. Conacher has some good potential. Most of the time, trade deadline deals look bad because the players traded never really settle in.

Conacher works his butt off out there and has a decent enough set of hands to put up some points. He just needs to get comfortable and learn how to reign in the abrasiveness a little bit (basically learn when to use it and when not to).

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06-04-2013, 10:37 PM
  #245
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I don't get why people are dumping on Conacher already. He played pretty well for us, his defensive liability was overstated and he draws a lot of penalties. Most of our team is big already (IIRC, 3rd biggest in the league on average) and he's a skilled guy that just put up a 50 point pace as a rookie who was undrafted.

If Bobby Ryan really is our target this off-season, and we do actually get him Conacher offers us a lot of options.

Conacher - Spezza - Ryan could be a line that wreaks havoc. Or, we could end up with something like Michalek - Spezza - Ryan, Greening - Turris - Alfredsson and then a third line of Conacher - Zibanejad - Silfverberg...which could arguably be the best 3rd line in hockey.

Give him a chance to show why he was in contention for rookie of the year and won MVP of the AHL (again, as a rookie). I really don't think we flipped Bishop for him just to toss him out in the summer -- he's got potential to be an impact forward. But we'll see.

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06-04-2013, 10:43 PM
  #246
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Or, we could end up with something like Michalek - Spezza - Ryan, Greening - Turris - Alfredsson and then a third line of Conacher - Zibanejad - Silfverberg...which could arguably be the best 3rd line in hockey.

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06-05-2013, 12:23 AM
  #247
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Michalek-Spezza-X
X-Turris-X
Greening-Zibanejad-Silfverberg
X-Smith-Neil

In my opinion, these are the spots that are pretty much set in stone going forward. By going forward, I mean like 2-3 years from now. I guess you can say that this the core, for now.

Obviously a guy like Silfverberg can move up to the 2nd or whatever.

Then there's prospects or guys like Conacher, Pageau who can fill the rest of the line-up. But role players don't seem to be the problem, it's the scoring positions. If we acquire a top forward by whatever means, it fills the top line and the last two spots can be battled for between Silfverberg and the rest of the prospects.

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06-05-2013, 12:55 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by praisealfie11 View Post
Michalek-Spezza-X
X-Turris-X
Greening-Zibanejad-Silfverberg
X-Smith-Neil

In my opinion, these are the spots that are pretty much set in stone going forward. By going forward, I mean like 2-3 years from now. I guess you can say that this the core, for now.

Obviously a guy like Silfverberg can move up to the 2nd or whatever.

Then there's prospects or guys like Conacher, Pageau who can fill the rest of the line-up. But role players don't seem to be the problem, it's the scoring positions. If we acquire a top forward by whatever means, it fills the top line and the last two spots can be battled for between Silfverberg and the rest of the prospects.
No Condra?

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06-05-2013, 01:02 AM
  #249
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No Condra?
I think Condra's basically cemented his spot on the third line for the foreseeable future. Greening's also probably not leaving the lineup in the next few years either.

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06-05-2013, 02:41 AM
  #250
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I see Condra as relatively expendable. I know he's valuable to the team, but let's say Silfverberg ends up playing a role like Frolik's in Chicago on the 3rd line RW, he's just a better player.

There's also Neil. He's 34, so I'm thinking Condra can just take his spot on the 4th line when he retires and by then Condra will not have lost his spot because of depth. But then comes the question about toughness... Is he tough enough to play that 4th line RW spot alongside Smith and whoever or can we move on and not have to insert another Neil-type player in that role?

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