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The Michael Del Zotto is a delsaster.

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Old
06-10-2013, 09:03 PM
  #326
Brian Boyle
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Alright folks, no need to be so hostile.

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06-10-2013, 09:15 PM
  #327
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I've been all over Del Zotto's back but I'm certainly willing to give him another look with a new coach.

Not blaming Torts specifically for Del Zotto, but I just think any player under 25, 26 is worth having another look at when the scenery is changed, just in case.

I sincerely hope he proves me wrong on all the **** I've given him.

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06-10-2013, 10:31 PM
  #328
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I still believe DZ has an upside.

My view is that the rangers need the PP qb and a top notch center. The team doesn't have the luxury of time. If there is a way to upgrade the team without moving anyone I'm for it. If not, then every player needs to be evaluated as to their worth and potential return in trade.

If, Staal is back at 100%, then I see 4 solid dmen (stl, Gir, Mcd, Stral)
and I would be willing to consider a deal in which MDZ is involved. Any deal must address the above needs. I would consider the move despite the fact that DZ might prove to be a solid dman in the future.

What intrigues me about offering DZ is that since there is an possible upside to his game I would be trading his upside potential (which could attract solid offers) in a deal that could bring me greater assets over the next few years. If teams won't pay up then no deal is worth making.

If Lundy was 5 years younger My thought process would be radically different.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 06-10-2013 at 10:42 PM.
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06-11-2013, 04:29 AM
  #329
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06-11-2013, 05:12 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
I still believe DZ has an upside.

My view is that the rangers need the PP qb and a top notch center. The team doesn't have the luxury of time. If there is a way to upgrade the team without moving anyone I'm for it. If not, then every player needs to be evaluated as to their worth and potential return in trade.

If, Staal is back at 100%, then I see 4 solid dmen (stl, Gir, Mcd, Stral)
and I would be willing to consider a deal in which MDZ is involved. Any deal must address the above needs. I would consider the move despite the fact that DZ might prove to be a solid dman in the future.

What intrigues me about offering DZ is that since there is an possible upside to his game I would be trading his upside potential (which could attract solid offers) in a deal that could bring me greater assets over the next few years. If teams won't pay up then no deal is worth making.

If Lundy was 5 years younger My thought process would be radically different.
i think we'll be surprised this summer, a lot of players will and should be bought out.. might have to take a shot with someone possibly? maybe who knows but looks realistic..

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06-11-2013, 09:45 AM
  #331
Rangers Fail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Then you are not watching carefully.
Total missed shots
DZ ranked 24th this season at 41 missed shots, just ahead of Shattenkirk's 40 missed shots and behind the following:
PietrAngelo: 57
Buff: 56
Doughty: 55
PK Subban: 42

One more nugget.
Career shot %
Shattenkirk: 6.2
Doughty: 7.1
DZ: 7.2

My point is DZ is not as bad as you guys make him out to be, he is just the favorite whipping boy at the moment.
Maybe DZ should do what others are doing and shoot low, rather than shooting for corners every time.

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06-11-2013, 10:02 AM
  #332
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Going to have to change the thread title. Apparently it's having a negative impact on our ability to trade Del Zotto in the trade forum.

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06-11-2013, 10:27 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post


Way to generalize. That was ONE, count it, ONE person.

Stepan is 10000X smarter than Del Zotto. He has hockey sense, whereas Del Zotto has barely any. There are serious flaws to his game, which he hasn't fixed in his 4th NHL year. Still can't hit the net. Still gets lost in the defensive zone. Still can't make good, quick decisions on the point. Still can't hit anything other than shins or glass on his shots. These are all serious concerns. Add in his sub-par skating for an offensive defenseman, and this is what you get.

Look at Keith, Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Shattenkirk, Letang. What do these all have in common? They can FLY on skates. Del Zotto? Not so much.
So Del Zotto is a disaster because he hasn't developed into Keith, Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Shattenkirk, or Letang? Those are the best defenseman in the league. He sucks because he's not Ray Bourque...

Del Zotto is a quality #4 defenseman, probably the best #4 defenseman in the NHL. He's 22 years old. He has tons of upside. I'm open to trading him if Staal will be healthy, because he can fetch us a ton in a trade and because it will be almost impossible to keep this team together under the cap. Staal is arguably our best defenseman when healthy (yes, arguably better than Ry-Mc), and Moore has just as much if not "Moore" upside than DZ. But he is far from a disaster. He is lacking between the ears, I agree with that. But that doesn't mean he is a disaster.

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06-11-2013, 10:45 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolic and DeTorts View Post
So Del Zotto is a disaster because he hasn't developed into Keith, Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Shattenkirk, or Letang? Those are the best defenseman in the league. He sucks because he's not Ray Bourque...

Del Zotto is a quality #4 defenseman, probably the best #4 defenseman in the NHL. He's 22 years old. He has tons of upside. I'm open to trading him if Staal will be healthy, because he can fetch us a ton in a trade and because it will be almost impossible to keep this team together under the cap. Staal is arguably our best defenseman when healthy (yes, arguably better than Ry-Mc), and Moore has just as much if not "Moore" upside than DZ. But he is far from a disaster. He is lacking between the ears, I agree with that. But that doesn't mean he is a disaster.
Sure, he's not a complete disaster. And I agree that Staal is our best defenseman when healthy.

I also see Moore having more upside than DZ.

Some people talk about him becoming a premier OFD. I don't see it. His skating, along with his decision making, will hold him back. I don't see him becoming THE guy on a PP either.

He'll be looking to cash in on his next pay day. Are you willing to give him $4.5 million? I'm not. Move him for a good young forward on an ELC. GM's will overvalue a "young PMD on a bridge contract." Which is funny, because I don't see Del Zotto moving the puck all that much. Unless you count throwing the puck up the boards "moving it."

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06-13-2013, 11:16 AM
  #335
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“@MichaelDelZotto: Long morning in surgery. Finally get to leave. Wonderful nurses. Back in top shape in no time. #motivated”

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06-13-2013, 11:20 AM
  #336
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“@MichaelDelZotto: Long morning in surgery. Finally get to leave. Wonderful nurses. Back in top shape in no time. #motivated”
Any idea what type of surgery he needed? This is the first I'm hearing of this

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06-13-2013, 11:44 AM
  #337
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Any idea what type of surgery he needed? This is the first I'm hearing of this
Same here. No one is sure yet. Dude just came back from vacation, so I am sure it wasn't anything major.

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Old
06-13-2013, 12:13 PM
  #338
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Ambulatory can't be too extensive

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:50 PM
  #339
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A sports hernia

http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2013/...hernia-surgery

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Old
06-13-2013, 01:53 PM
  #340
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As frustrated as I get with watching him play at times and for a while felt he should be traded....its easy to forget how young he is and how he's still developing. Could end up being a Zubov type player if he continues working on his game.

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06-13-2013, 03:32 PM
  #341
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Injury. Del Zotto defenders win by default. Solid top pairing d man. Good to see though. I MISSED BADLY, the swagger he had 2 seasons ago. MDZ on the ice was an offensive spark as opposed to "not Mcdonagh on the ice"

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06-13-2013, 04:40 PM
  #342
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Should have got lasik surgery so he could hit the net, am I right?

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06-13-2013, 05:17 PM
  #343
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This thread is awful and everybody who wants to ship MDZ out of town for peanuts is equally as awful.

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Old
06-14-2013, 08:50 AM
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Shattenkirk: 23 points
Doughty: 22 points
DZ: 21 points.
Put down the pipe son.
Misleading stats, these players are much more consistent in temrs of contributing offensively in more than just the score sheet. Points alone do not accurately paint the picture although in this case they show that no MDZ is not useless and there is something there. however watching his consistent errors and failures on both ends is a problem.

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06-14-2013, 09:11 AM
  #345
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Injury. Del Zotto defenders win by default. Solid top pairing d man. Good to see though. I MISSED BADLY, the swagger he had 2 seasons ago. MDZ on the ice was an offensive spark as opposed to "not Mcdonagh on the ice"
DZ has never really had an offensive game at ES, that is a fallacy. Ryan McDonagh has outproduced him and against harder competition in every season they have played together, and has had better possession numbers every year bar one.

MDZ:

09-10: CRQOC: -0.582, P/60: 0.79, CRel: +3.9 OISh%: 8.22
10-11: CRQOC: -0.036, P/60: 0.35, CRel: +5.0 OISh%: 8.22
11-12: CRQOC: +0.211, P/60: 0.96, CRel: -1.1 OISh%: 9.89
12-13: CRQOC: +0.057, P/60: 0.79, CRel: -7.4 OISh%: 7.91

McD:

10-11: CRQOC: +0.815, P/60: 0.55, CRel: +0.1 OISh%: 10.11
11-12: CRQOC: +1.707, P/60: 1.02, CRel: +3.5 OISh%: 8.58
12-13: CRQOC: +0.619, P/60: 1.01, CRel: +6.0 OISh%: 7.77

Staal and Girardi produce at a similar level to DZ against harder competition, but they have both had years where they've been behind. Staal better every year bar 11-12, Girardi better every year bar 11-12 and 12-13.

Del Zotto picks up the majority of his points on the PP, but he does so mainly by default, he is rarely the catalyst of a good play.

The feeling I get when I watch MDZ is that he is a player that has been put in a situation where he looks a lot better on paper than what he actually performs on the ice, and it is reflected in his advanced stats as well. He has never been good contributor at ES, and he isn't that good on the PP either, but Lundqvist and the rest of the defence build up his +/-, and being the default PP defenceman gives him an artificially high points total.

Maybe a new coach can help him channel his skill to actual offensive contributions at ES and make him an effective PP defenceman, but my gut feeling is to trade him before the league figures out that he is more "rich man's Cam Barker", than "poor man's Sergei Zubov".

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06-14-2013, 09:33 AM
  #346
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
This thread is awful and everybody who wants to ship MDZ out of town for peanuts is equally as awful.
I think those people have been in the minority. Far more people have advocated trading him if the return will satisfy other team needs such as a right handed offensive defensemen and/or young goal scoring winger.

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Old
06-14-2013, 09:48 AM
  #347
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I'll eat crow on Del Zotto when he:

Learns how to skate
Can get a shot on goal
Can control the puck on the power play
Can shadow his man in coverage and not lose him in transition.

Yeah. That would be a start.

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06-14-2013, 12:22 PM
  #348
shinchanyo
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I've been all over Del Zotto's back .
Maybe thats why he was skating so slow

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06-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #349
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I don't dislike Del Zotto, just like I don't dislike Boyle. Some people on here just like to dislike players. Only Ranger I really hated was Avery.

I just see MDZ as the most reasonable candidate to be moved for a scoring forward. I don't like him on the power play, and that's basically what got him intoo the league in the first place. I think his offensive numbers have been inflated by being the best of a bad situation in PP blueliners, so that might inflate his trade value.

I would never trade McDonagh or Moore (Who we just got) and that leaves an injured Marc Staal as the alternative. There really is only one reasonable destination for Marc, and we've heard nothing in the way of rumors about it thus far.

I will say again; if we go into the season with Staal, McDonagh, Girardi, Moore, and Stralman, I am not at all worried about the blueline with Henrik in net. Not at all.

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06-14-2013, 06:19 PM
  #350
Lerb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
DZ has never really had an offensive game at ES, that is a fallacy. Ryan McDonagh has outproduced him and against harder competition in every season they have played together, and has had better possession numbers every year bar one.

MDZ:

09-10: CRQOC: -0.582, P/60: 0.79, CRel: +3.9 OISh%: 8.22
10-11: CRQOC: -0.036, P/60: 0.35, CRel: +5.0 OISh%: 8.22
11-12: CRQOC: +0.211, P/60: 0.96, CRel: -1.1 OISh%: 9.89
12-13: CRQOC: +0.057, P/60: 0.79, CRel: -7.4 OISh%: 7.91

McD:

10-11: CRQOC: +0.815, P/60: 0.55, CRel: +0.1 OISh%: 10.11
11-12: CRQOC: +1.707, P/60: 1.02, CRel: +3.5 OISh%: 8.58
12-13: CRQOC: +0.619, P/60: 1.01, CRel: +6.0 OISh%: 7.77

Staal and Girardi produce at a similar level to DZ against harder competition, but they have both had years where they've been behind. Staal better every year bar 11-12, Girardi better every year bar 11-12 and 12-13.

Del Zotto picks up the majority of his points on the PP, but he does so mainly by default, he is rarely the catalyst of a good play.

The feeling I get when I watch MDZ is that he is a player that has been put in a situation where he looks a lot better on paper than what he actually performs on the ice, and it is reflected in his advanced stats as well. He has never been good contributor at ES, and he isn't that good on the PP either, but Lundqvist and the rest of the defence build up his +/-, and being the default PP defenceman gives him an artificially high points total.

Maybe a new coach can help him channel his skill to actual offensive contributions at ES and make him an effective PP defenceman, but my gut feeling is to trade him before the league figures out that he is more "rich man's Cam Barker", than "poor man's Sergei Zubov".
The verdict is still out on DZ. Our system doesn't work for him. The way Torts plays defense, deals with pointmen, PP, rushes, transitions doesn't really translate to good things for offensive defensemen. It's not a free pass but if we were to trade him away to a team that has a system he will flourish under, it can easily be mini Montreal McDonagh D man trade bite in the ass.

With what people can say about his PP time, points and production and his ES time, points and production as well as his overall defensive play, there's too much on both sides of the argument. While he does get his points from the PP, our PP has got to be one of the worst in the last 4 years collectively. Does it really seem surprising to people that an all around d man like McDonagh will produce at a higher rate at ES than Del Zotto under Torts?

There's a sharp learning curve under Torts and many have flourished. Stepan being the solid 2 way forward he is has gotten the most out of Torts' system as has Callahan, Boyle (even with this year's RS stats), Prust etc. DZ however, is one that experienced that learning curve on the defensive side of things and he's never meant to be a #3 or #4 defenseman with his defensive game. He's meant to be a middle pairing D man because of his offense and that's why these threads exist.

I hate to constantly default to the Torts argument but it certainly applies here. He hasn't gotten along with the system in NY since day...3 or so?

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