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Best goalie ever?

View Poll Results: Best NHL Goalie ever?
"St. Patrick" Patrick Roy (3 Vezinas, 3 Conn Smythes) 46 37.40%
"The Dominator" Dominik Hasek (6 Vezinas, 2 Pearsons, 2 Harts) 36 29.27%
"Mr. Goalie" Terry Sawchuk (4 Vezinas, 102 Shutouts) 17 13.82%
"The Innovator" Jacques Plante (7 Vezinas, 1 Hart) 9 7.32%
"Mr. Butterfly" Glenn Hall (3 Vezinas, 1 Conn Smythe) 4 3.25%
Ken Dryden (6 Vezina trophies, 6 Cups) 11 8.94%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-30-2005, 10:22 AM
  #76
Malefic74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Pang. Kidd. Cechmanek.

Where's the love for Snow?
All pretenders to the throne.

Murray freakin' Bannerman.

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05-30-2005, 10:56 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
All pretenders to the throne.

Murray freakin' Bannerman.
Actually, Bannerman wasn't bad - and he had a great mask.

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05-30-2005, 11:26 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Actually, Bannerman wasn't bad - and he had a great mask.
That he did, which is pretty much the only reason I bring him up.

As for equivalents to Kidd and the rest of that murderer's row upthread....

Tommy Soderstrom? Glenn Healy? Peter Ing?

Giants of the position. (The position in question being that of half-forgotten back-up goalies.)


Last edited by Malefic74: 05-30-2005 at 11:27 PM. Reason: Because spelling is important...
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Old
05-31-2005, 12:40 AM
  #79
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I have watched many vintage games courtesy of the NHL network and i can say without hesitation that Dryden, Cheevers, etc. would have a very hard time playing in today's NHL. It is impossible to make a comparison the change is so drastic. Some goalies like Harrison in 79 for the Leafs made me laugh really hard. Pluck most any goalie out of Major junior and they would be far better than this guy and many others. The only position in any sport i can think of that has changed so drastically is placekicker. They are all soccer style instead of straight on. In the 72 series neither Tretiak or Dryden impressed me much. I am spoiled by today's goalies.

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05-31-2005, 05:55 AM
  #80
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Hard question. Equipment size is different, curves on the sticks, sophisticated team systems built around their goalies strengths/weaknesses....

I have to go with HASEK. Just a gut thing, but consistently he has been the most feared guy. I mean teams have talked about how to get just ONE GOAL against him. He seems to be the guy as far as I'm concerned.

I would put Mike Richter second. When Richter was on he was UNBEATABLE. Absolutely unbeatable.

Roy is remembered for 86 and 93, but I grew up in Montreal and agree that he's overrated. He has had several shaky seasons and let in numerous bad goals. If he didn't ask for a trade, he would have been booed out of town anyway (probably wrongly so). It was his failure in Montreal after 93 that gave him the fire to rescucitate his career.

Plante always said he learned a lot from Sawchuck, which should tell you something. Plante always told it like it was too, to a fault.

Davey Kerr is a guy a lot of the old schoolers point to and say was the best goalie in the league when he played for awful Ranger teams and then won a Cup in 1940.

You can go on and on.

To me it's Hasek who is the best of all time, without a doubt. He was head and shoulders above the top goalies today imo. Brodeur, Theodore, Luongo, Belfour, Khabibulin.....no way.....

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05-31-2005, 10:13 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
Roy... he's overrated. He has had several shaky seasons and let in numerous bad goals.
I agree. But yet he had an intensity and a drive which allowed him to bounce back WHEN IT MATTERED MOST.

I never really liked him but admired his ability to get it together. I half-watched (I don't like Colorado) a series he played a few years ago in which he went from a 5-0 or 7-0 rout loss in game 5 or 6 to... stoning the other team and winning the Cup in the next game. Was it in the Finals against a team I also don't like (New Jersey) in 2001? I was traveling through California at the time, and my memory of the trip is all a blur That series typified Roy's greatness.

I too give the nod to Hasek. But it's like 1 and 1a to me.

You can't take away what Roy has done, and getting it done even if the ride is bumpy is what it's all about.

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06-03-2005, 05:57 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Many of these stats are very misleading. Goaltender wins, Save %, Shutouts and GAA are all so influenced by the team in front of the goalie that they are very inaccurate measures of a goalie's value. Goaltending stats should be scrapped as a measurement of who is the best.

The only way to properly guage a goalie's play is to watch him. Since we cannot watch all of these guys in action, we have to use eyewitness accounts. 1st and 2nd team all stars have been picked since 1931 and, although not perfect, it is the most effective way to judge the great goaltenders.
How about the fact that Plante is the only goalie with both a Hart, 1961-62, and a Conn Smythe, 1960?

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06-03-2005, 06:04 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67
How about the fact that Plante is the only goalie with both a Hart, 1961-62, and a Conn Smythe, 1960?
Plante did win the Hart but the Conn Smythe was a projected award. Still impressive nevertheless.

You have read my comments out of context. The reason I was touting the post season all stars and no other awards is because, before 1982 the Vezina was not for best goalie, before 1965 there was no Conn Smythe (but the projections are very good) and very few goalies won the Hart.

You are 100% correct that winning the Hart and the Smythe is impressive.

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06-03-2005, 06:05 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwisshockeyAcademy
I have watched many vintage games courtesy of the NHL network and i can say without hesitation that Dryden, Cheevers, etc. would have a very hard time playing in today's NHL. It is impossible to make a comparison the change is so drastic. Some goalies like Harrison in 79 for the Leafs made me laugh really hard. Pluck most any goalie out of Major junior and they would be far better than this guy and many others. The only position in any sport i can think of that has changed so drastically is placekicker. They are all soccer style instead of straight on. In the 72 series neither Tretiak or Dryden impressed me much. I am spoiled by today's goalies.
Any goalie would have a hard time in today's NHL without the 12" wide pads and ridiculous gloves.

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06-04-2005, 12:57 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Any goalie would have a hard time in today's NHL without the 12" wide pads and ridiculous gloves.
Disagree. If the only change made for the upcoming season was the gear reduction for goalies you would not see a big increase in goals. These are tremendous athletes; often the best pure athletes on the team unlike in years past. Many have adapted to the use of big equipment because they could and it was a lot easier on their bodies. To suggest that playing the same style with a reduction of two inches is going to make it so much harder as a goalie is naive.

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06-04-2005, 02:12 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
Disagree. If the only change made for the upcoming season was the gear reduction for goalies you would not see a big increase in goals. These are tremendous athletes; often the best pure athletes on the team unlike in years past. Many have adapted to the use of big equipment because they could and it was a lot easier on their bodies. To suggest that playing the same style with a reduction of two inches is going to make it so much harder as a goalie is naive.
I completely disagree. When the pads and gloves are back to 80s sizes, you will see an immediate increase in goals scored and a significant decrease in save %. Goalies had to rely on reflex and athleticism in the 80s, now they can just stand there or butterfly there and know that there is almost no chance of the puck getting by.

Goalies like Giguere could find themselves out of the league without their inflated equipment to prop up their skills.

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06-04-2005, 01:01 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
I completely disagree. When the pads and gloves are back to 80s sizes, you will see an immediate increase in goals scored and a significant decrease in save %. Goalies had to rely on reflex and athleticism in the 80s, now they can just stand there or butterfly there and know that there is almost no chance of the puck getting by.

Goalies like Giguere could find themselves out of the league without their inflated equipment to prop up their skills.

Ombondo is right, 80's scoring stats are meaningless. The one who took advantage of this the most to pad his totals was 99.

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06-04-2005, 02:11 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
I completely disagree. When the pads and gloves are back to 80s sizes, you will see an immediate increase in goals scored and a significant decrease in save %. Goalies had to rely on reflex and athleticism in the 80s, now they can just stand there or butterfly there and know that there is almost no chance of the puck getting by.

Goalies like Giguere could find themselves out of the league without their inflated equipment to prop up their skills.
Roy and Potvin both used the butterfly very efffectively in the late 80's with the smaller gear. Goalies like Moog and Barrasso used positioning more than reflex and were very successful. Now this change will affect some guys no doubt, but if you're waiting for the floodgates to open I wouldn't hold your breath.

Giguere is 6' 175 so maybe he has to move out a little more to cover the same amount of net. A guy like Kolzig will still be 6'5 and 230 and no smaller than he was before. The adjustment will be surprisingly minor. If you're losing a couple of inches to your pads on a butterfly it' negligible becuase your hands can easily cover that area. Seriously how many saves are made with the very edge of the pad? Ridiculously few. And to cover this all a goalie has to do is move out maybe 6" and he covers the same amount of net.

Don't get me wrong, I like and applaud the idea. (It was getting harder and harder to find older-style equipment for myself.) and some goalies may wind up out of work. But on an overall scale I don't think it'll make much difference at all. The other discussed changes will have a FAR, FAR greater impact than anything they do with the goalies IMO.

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