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Couturier for Kulikov

View Poll Results: Would you trade Kulikov for Couturier if Avs take Mac?
Yes 17 51.52%
No 16 48.48%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-28-2013, 01:48 AM
  #26
flapanthersfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Couturier went from being very overated last year to a little understated this year. Still, if we look at this draft for example, i would select Barkov, Monahan and Lindholm over him without thinking twice.

Depends on what path Kulikov takes. If he does become the player we hope, then i value his potential contributions more than Couturier. If he doesn't, well, Couturier is the type of player in 5-6 years who you would love to have to compliment your offense in the playoffs.

I'd move Gudbranson for Couturier without thinking. Both to me lack the puck skills or that intangible swag to become impact players in the immediate future, but Gudbranson is a significantly bigger project than Couturier.
agreed. wouldn't move Kulikov for Couturier, but I'd do Gudbranson for him in a second, especially if we draft Jones (which I don't want us to do)

glad i'm not the only one who acknowledges the fact that Guds' upside is very limited. Couturier's is too, but much less downside.

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05-28-2013, 02:24 AM
  #27
florida pwnthers
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people complain about kulikov being judged too early and people hate on him, but a gudbranson who was a BEAST in playoffs vs devils is now "limited upside" because he played with an injured shoulder and couldn't beat people up? shoulders are nasty to mess with, but kulikov is a great piece and will fetch us a lot more. there's very few centers avaible anyway

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05-28-2013, 05:23 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
I dont like the idea of trading young valuable defensemen.
Have to give to get, and we need scoring.

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05-28-2013, 05:24 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
agreed. wouldn't move Kulikov for Couturier, but I'd do Gudbranson for him in a second, especially if we draft Jones (which I don't want us to do)

glad i'm not the only one who acknowledges the fact that Guds' upside is very limited. Couturier's is too, but much less downside.
Lol...he's not. Shoulder injury, but keep those blinders on.

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05-28-2013, 08:47 AM
  #30
J17 Vs Proclamation
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Gudbranson has definite higher end NHL qualities to his game. He is mobile, big, mean and makes decent decisions. He has the type of package that will without question lead to a good NHL career.

He doesn't have the puck skills to be an elite NHL defenseman. Kulikov has some mental errors to iron out, but he can potentially offer something at both ends of the rink that Gudbranson simply cannot do IMO.

At the time i was somewhat content with picking Gudbranson at #3, since i felt he was a surefire good NHL player, there was little consensus after the top 2, and many of the big forwards after had question marks. However, i think the past 3 years has really solidified a personal opinion that you just don't take players like Gudbranson that high in an NHL entry draft. It's a slow development process and usually the reward isn't really there relative to what you hope at the time.

I can really see Couturier being a great #2 or #3 line Center on a serious playoff contender, but if you want scoring, there are better options. Since i believe we possess several excellent complimentary prospects in Shore, Knight, Howden and to some extent, Bjugstad, we have bigger needs IMO.

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05-28-2013, 08:59 AM
  #31
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Hell no! Kulikov´s upside is better than Couturier´s.

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05-28-2013, 10:12 AM
  #32
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Why trade kulikov for couturier when we already have many potential 2nd and 3rd line centers in the pipeline? that makes no sense. if we can trade for someone who has the potential to be a bonafide 1st liner, go for it, but then they wouldn't be available anyways.

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05-28-2013, 12:32 PM
  #33
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I floated this idea earlier this season actually. In principal, yes I would do it as I think both have pretty similar upside at this point (Couturier as a 2nd line center, Kulikov as a #3 d-man). I'd like to get someone with more offensive upside than Couturier but I dont think that type of player is available at this point that would fit in with our team. Unless Kulikov makes a monumental leap next season, he is what you see now as he is just 1 season away from that "300 game" criteria where you know what a d-man is and has developed into.

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05-28-2013, 02:34 PM
  #34
StrangeVision
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Just out of curiosity, do you have any data supporting this 300 game plateau?

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05-28-2013, 02:39 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeVision View Post
Just out of curiosity, do you have any data supporting this 300 game plateau?
Its something that has been mentioned by several different people in the past (Denis Potvin, Dale Tallon, etc). I'm sure if we collected every d-man's stats after they have played 300 games, you'd see a definite correlation to what they consistently play like thereafter.

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05-28-2013, 06:23 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Gudbranson has definite higher end NHL qualities to his game. He is mobile, big, mean and makes decent decisions. He has the type of package that will without question lead to a good NHL career.

He doesn't have the puck skills to be an elite NHL defenseman. Kulikov has some mental errors to iron out, but he can potentially offer something at both ends of the rink that Gudbranson simply cannot do IMO.

At the time i was somewhat content with picking Gudbranson at #3, since i felt he was a surefire good NHL player, there was little consensus after the top 2, and many of the big forwards after had question marks. However, i think the past 3 years has really solidified a personal opinion that you just don't take players like Gudbranson that high in an NHL entry draft. It's a slow development process and usually the reward isn't really there relative to what you hope at the time.

I can really see Couturier being a great #2 or #3 line Center on a serious playoff contender, but if you want scoring, there are better options. Since i believe we possess several excellent complimentary prospects in Shore, Knight, Howden and to some extent, Bjugstad, we have bigger needs IMO.
agreed on all counts. i've been saying this for years and have been getting roasted for it since 2010. glad i'm not the only one.

finally theres someone else who understands the concept of upside and draft position. taking players like Gudbranson that high in the draft just doesn't make sense. when you can get them later on in several drafts. you don't get to pick 3rd overall very often (well, you shouldn't want to) - and when you do, you need to try and hit a home run. not take the safe pick and bunt yourself to first base.

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05-29-2013, 12:41 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Have to give to get, and we need scoring.
Our Achilles' heel this season was our piss-poor defense, which had a serious negative effect on our offense, though the major issue with the offense was injuries to too many key top-6 players.

We need to remove Jovo and Kuba to improve things, but doing so leaves a gap the Panthers will struggle to adequately fill right now. So it makes no sense to move ANY defenseman other than those two.

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