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Old
05-30-2013, 12:40 AM
  #226
WantonAbandon
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
He also didn't have the talent that McLellan had. RW teams were severely hampered by a lack of blue line depth. I won't mention the forward depth as that has hampered McLellan too but the 2nd lines under Wilson were not as good as the 2nd lines under McLellan.
The team that lost to Dallas in game six was about as good as any other team the sharks have ever had.

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05-30-2013, 01:10 AM
  #227
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1. So you didn't notice that JT stopped hanging out by the side boards? JT stopped slowing the game down something he excelled at for his entire career. Now the coaching staff pushed and prodded him by making Burns and Galiardi his line mates. But yeah the end of the slow down game was important to McLeallan as he very bluntly and publicly stated that it doesn't work anymore.

2. Remember when people starting wondering if the Sharks were still "Thorntons" team. This actually had more to do with the org relying and leaning on him less than it had to do with Thornton's play. Apparently the Sharks felt more like a team this year the way the players talk about this season.

3. Granted Burnside probably isn't the best source and he hates the Sharks but he had the Sharks ranked 23rd at the beginning of the season and had this to say: The Sharks will return pretty much the same lineup that limped into the playoffs as the seventh seed and was ousted in five games by St. Louis. We're not sold on the goaltending, and someone needs to drag this team back into contention. Now Lebrun the guy who picked the Sharks to win the cup for years had them ranked 14th and nicely said this: I was in St. Louis last spring when the demolition of the Sharks was over. It felt like the window of opportunity closed on the Sharks. But the addition of Stuart on defense was solid, and a veteran core led by Joe Thornton, Ryane Clowe and Dan Boyle -- plus All-Star Logan Couture -- might have another season left to contend. Maybe. But I'm not picking them to win it all. I need a new schtick. I'm quoting these two because looking back at the espn power rankings is so convenient. But there were plenty of talk about the Sharks aging veterans and closed windows. That why when the Sharks won 7 in a row Randy joked "I got your window right here!"
Thornton's side board stuff is happening about the same frequency from what I've seen that it was prior. He does the board battles there and moves the puck. He's moved the puck a little quicker than early on but he still rarely goes to the scoring areas, let alone with the puck, and very rarely screened the goalie looking at the whole picture. He had his moments though but he always had his moments. But he still had his moments of slowing it down or making a lazy play. He still button-hooked with the puck in his own zone when getting it out was the better play. He still blindly throws the puck around in all zones. He still didn't shoot the puck more like the coaches told him to.

As for 2, that doesn't explain why McLellan gets credit for that. Couture starting to take over can be a natural progression that was happening among the boys themselves and not something McLellan initiated in any way that he deserves credit for.

Burnside is but one guy...not a very credible guy with his obvious bias against the Sharks for years but I'm sure if you look around there are many people that still had the Sharks in the playoffs along the line of Lebrun where they weren't going to do much but make an appearance.

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The team that lost to Dallas in game six was about as good as any other team the sharks have ever had.
If you break down that team, it wasn't really that good. It lacked solid depth up and down the lineup. Their blue line was very young and very inconsistent. All they had that was reliable was Campbell for the stretch and Rivet. Vlasic wasn't doing so hot. Ehrhoff was inconsistent. Carle was inconsistent and bad. Murray was so slow. McLaren was breaking down. Their top line was okay. Thornton was awesome. Michalek was very good. Cheechoo was barely hanging on. Marleau was flat out awful. Bernier was flopping his way out of town and Guerin ended up a bust. Pavelski did well but it wasn't a fit at the time. Mitchell and Roenick did well in depth roles but couldn't fill in either on the 2nd line. Grier was meh compared to the year before. He helped Mitchell along but he wasn't that good himself. Nobody else was anything special.

That team was raw for the most part but not like the teams they've ran in McLellan's time prior to last season. Depending on how you want to lay blame on the coach for all of that, I would definitely understand why he was let go. But a lot of the same sort of criticisms can be put at McLellan's feet.

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05-30-2013, 01:29 AM
  #228
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The team that lost to Dallas in game six was about as good as any other team the sharks have ever had.
Talent-wise, perhaps, but in matters of execution, that team was Thornton and Nabakov. Maybe Campbell when he came at the deadline; those players drove the team that year.

There was a lot of speculation at the time that Ron Wilson was responsible for Marleau "sucking". He was, IIRC, accused of mishandling Ehrhoff, Carle, Bernier, Goc, and Vlasic. He was even implicated in Cheechoo's problems. Where there is smoke, there is fire?

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05-30-2013, 02:04 AM
  #229
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Thornton's side board stuff is happening about the same frequency from what I've seen that it was prior. He does the board battles there and moves the puck. He's moved the puck a little quicker than early on but he still rarely goes to the scoring areas, let alone with the puck, and very rarely screened the goalie looking at the whole picture. He had his moments though but he always had his moments. But he still had his moments of slowing it down or making a lazy play. He still button-hooked with the puck in his own zone when getting it out was the better play. He still blindly throws the puck around in all zones. He still didn't shoot the puck more like the coaches told him to.

As for 2, that doesn't explain why McLellan gets credit for that. Couture starting to take over can be a natural progression that was happening among the boys themselves and not something McLellan initiated in any way that he deserves credit for.

Burnside is but one guy...not a very credible guy with his obvious bias against the Sharks for years but I'm sure if you look around there are many people that still had the Sharks in the playoffs along the line of Lebrun where they weren't going to do much but make an appearance.



If you break down that team, it wasn't really that good. It lacked solid depth up and down the lineup. Their blue line was very young and very inconsistent. All they had that was reliable was Campbell for the stretch and Rivet. Vlasic wasn't doing so hot. Ehrhoff was inconsistent. Carle was inconsistent and bad. Murray was so slow. McLaren was breaking down. Their top line was okay. Thornton was awesome. Michalek was very good. Cheechoo was barely hanging on. Marleau was flat out awful. Bernier was flopping his way out of town and Guerin ended up a bust. Pavelski did well but it wasn't a fit at the time. Mitchell and Roenick did well in depth roles but couldn't fill in either on the 2nd line. Grier was meh compared to the year before. He helped Mitchell along but he wasn't that good himself. Nobody else was anything special.

That team was raw for the most part but not like the teams they've ran in McLellan's time prior to last season. Depending on how you want to lay blame on the coach for all of that, I would definitely understand why he was let go. But a lot of the same sort of criticisms can be put at McLellan's feet.
Well we will just have to agree to disagree about JT.

You have your team history mixed up. The Sharks didn't have Guerin and Berneir was traded to get Campbell in 2008. Cheecho scored 23 goals in 69 games that year and scored 4 goals and 4 assists in 13 games the playoffs, so yes he was still very productive (yes I looked up his stats to support my memory). Pavelski was one of the teams top forwards in 2008 Remember that big goal he scored in game 5? As for Ehroff he actually was really consistent. Wilson wouldn't let him take any risks at all. I remembered Ehroff playing injured during the playoffs; ankle injury I think. Roenick scoring 14 goals as a depth guy is nothing sneez at. The depth on that team was remarkable; the current Boston team would be jealous of it. Take a second look... And before he got fired Wilson explained that the talent to win a cup was there.


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05-30-2013, 02:17 AM
  #230
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Well we will just have to agree to disagree about JT.

You have your team history mixed up. The Sharks didn't have Guerin and Berneir was traded to get Campbell in 2008. Cheecho scored 23 goals in 69 games that year and scored 4 goals and 4 assists in 13 games the playoffs, so yes he was still very productive (yes I looked up his stats to support my memory). Pavelski was one of the teams top forwards in 2008 Remember that big goal he scored in game 5? As for Ehroff he actually was really consistent. Wilson wouldn't let him take any risks at all. I remembered Ehroff playing injured during the playoffs; ankle injury I think. Roenick scoring 14 goals as a depth guy is nothing sneez at. The depth on that team was remarkable; the current Boston team would be jealous of it. Take a second look...
Really, you want to say that Boston would be jealous of it? Boston could roll three legitimate scoring lines. That Sharks team couldn't put two together. And no, Ehrhoff wasn't consistent that year. He made progress but he was not consistent. He was still developing in a lot of ways.

Their depth was far from remarkable. They had five guys with 19+ goals. A legitimate two line scoring team has at least six at or near that level. A team with a productive third line has at least 9 forwards at, around, or above 30 points. That team had six.

They certainly had nowhere near a good enough blue line to reasonably expect them to go far in the playoffs. They had a wanna-be #1 who was really a poor man's Boyle. Rivet was a solid #3-4 guy that was forced into a #2 role where he was outmatched. Everyone else was not contributing enough on both ends or even just one end well enough and consistently enough to be called remarkable.

And yes, RW said the talent was there but that doesn't mean the depth was solid or remarkable. The talent was there but they were raw, as I said before. They were too inexperienced and not good enough at that moment.

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05-30-2013, 02:22 AM
  #231
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Really, you want to say that Boston would be jealous of it? Boston could roll three legitimate scoring lines. That Sharks team couldn't put two together. And no, Ehrhoff wasn't consistent that year. He made progress but he was not consistent. He was still developing in a lot of ways.

Their depth was far from remarkable. They had five guys with 19+ goals. A legitimate two line scoring team has at least six at or near that level. A team with a productive third line has at least 9 forwards at, around, or above 30 points. That team had six.

They certainly had nowhere near a good enough blue line to reasonably expect them to go far in the playoffs. They had a wanna-be #1 who was really a poor man's Boyle. Rivet was a solid #3-4 guy that was forced into a #2 role where he was outmatched. Everyone else was not contributing enough on both ends or even just one end well enough and consistently enough to be called remarkable.
You sure about them not being able to run three scoring lines? Look again. I forgot exactly what happened to Clowe that season.... Now there was one rookie who was in Wilsons dog house, but he could have been placed on the "third scoring line" easily. In fact the line he was on actually scored quite a few goals against Calgary.

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05-30-2013, 02:24 AM
  #232
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Now the way Wilson played "You can't coach offense" I can see how you wouldn't be able to realize that teams full potential. Ron Wilson did however and so did DW

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05-30-2013, 02:30 AM
  #233
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You sure about them not being able to run three scoring lines? Look again. I forgot exactly what happened to Clowe that season.... Now there was one rookie who was in Wilsons dog house, but he could have been placed on the "third scoring line" easily. In fact the line he was on actually scored quite a few goals against Calgary.
Clowe blew out his knee, I think in a collision with Grier? Didn't get back until just before the playoffs, I believe. They were able to manufacture a second line that was decent in the playoffs but not a third. But even so, you have to remember who they were and how old they were with what kind of experience they had. That was a very, very young team.

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05-30-2013, 02:35 AM
  #234
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Clowe blew out his knee, I think in a collision with Grier? Didn't get back until just before the playoffs, I believe. They were able to manufacture a second line that was decent in the playoffs but not a third. But even so, you have to remember who they were and how old they were with what kind of experience they had. That was a very, very young team.
Yes they did. Roenick, Mitchell and Setogouchi was that third scoring line. Had four to five goals during that playoffs

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05-30-2013, 02:40 AM
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Yes they did. Roenick, Mitchell and Setogouchi was that third scoring line. Had four to five goals during that playoffs
That 'line' amounted for two goals...not five. Roenick had a goal and Seto had a goal and that was it and that was just in game 7 of the Calgary series. Torrey's goal was a power play goal and the other Roenick goal was a power play goal. That's hardly a third scoring line if the line only scored in one game.

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05-30-2013, 02:50 AM
  #236
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That 'line' amounted for two goals...not five. Roenick had a goal and Seto had a goal and that was it and that was just in game 7 of the Calgary series. Torrey's goal was a power play goal and the other Roenick goal was a power play goal. That's hardly a third scoring line if the line only scored in one game.
That's 2 more goals than this year's third line's scoring.

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05-30-2013, 02:52 AM
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That's 2 more goals than this year's third line's scoring.
Yeah but I don't think anyone is pretending that we had depth after everything that happened. lol

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05-30-2013, 03:21 AM
  #238
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You sure about them not being able to run three scoring lines? Look again. I forgot exactly what happened to Clowe that season.... Now there was one rookie who was in Wilsons dog house, but he could have been placed on the "third scoring line" easily. In fact the line he was on actually scored quite a few goals against Calgary.
The year the sharks played 7 games against Calgary was the year Clowe blew out his knee and missed most of the season. He came back just before the playoffs and was a surprising dominant force in the 7 games against calgary. In the next round against Dallas the sharks were visibly drained from the previous series and promptly dropped 3 straight (i think?) then Marleau woke up and scored a few great goals to help get the series to game 6. Marleau was just ok against Calgary but had one inspirational game where he got run over by a pinching D-man and came back to play well. Can't remember if he scored after that hit. It was brutal and he was bleeding all over himself afterward.

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05-30-2013, 03:23 AM
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That 'line' amounted for two goals...not five. Roenick had a goal and Seto had a goal and that was it and that was just in game 7 of the Calgary series. Torrey's goal was a power play goal and the other Roenick goal was a power play goal. That's hardly a third scoring line if the line only scored in one game.

That's wrong because JR had 2 alone in the game 7... he had 2 goals and 2 assists in that game.

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05-30-2013, 03:26 AM
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That's wrong because JR had 2 alone in the game 7... he had 2 goals and 2 assists in that game.
It's right because one goal and one assist came on the power play. He wasn't iced with those two in that situation.

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05-30-2013, 03:32 AM
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It's right because one goal and one assist came on the power play. He wasn't iced with those two in that situation.
It's still a bottom 6 player producing though... Similar to when Pavs previously played the 3rd line but then the point on the PP and scored.

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05-30-2013, 03:33 AM
  #242
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It's still a bottom 6 player producing though... Similar to when Pavs previously played the 3rd line but then the point on the PP and scored.
But it's not a third line scoring which is the context of the discussion.

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05-30-2013, 05:39 PM
  #243
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Kevin Kurz ‏@KKurzCSN 14s
Not that this was in doubt, but Doug Wilson said Todd McLellan and staff are all back next season #SJSharks

TMac and co. are safe.

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05-30-2013, 05:44 PM
  #244
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Kevin Kurz ‏@KKurzCSN 14s
Not that this was in doubt, but Doug Wilson said Todd McLellan and staff are all back next season #SJSharks

TMac and co. are safe.
Not surprised. I think it's a mistake, but we certainly could do worse.

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05-30-2013, 08:03 PM
  #245
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Not surprised. I think it's a mistake, but we certainly could do worse.
Mistake how?? Fire Tmac bring in whom? tortella? AV? get rid of Robinson? Asst coaches?? what exactly is your beef. Who goes? who replaces? Create more chaos..Groovy.

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05-30-2013, 08:14 PM
  #246
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Kevin Kurz ‏@KKurzCSN 14s
Not that this was in doubt, but Doug Wilson said Todd McLellan and staff are all back next season #SJSharks

TMac and co. are safe.
That was about as obvious as it's not gonna rain tomorrow.

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05-30-2013, 08:15 PM
  #247
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That was about as obvious as it's not gonna rain tomorrow.
This is the Bay Area we're talking about. You never know.

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06-12-2013, 09:53 AM
  #248
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No surprise, the San Jose Sharks have wisely extended Todd McLellan's contract as head coach.
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06-12-2013, 10:08 AM
  #249
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06-12-2013, 10:33 AM
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No surprise, the San Jose Sharks have wisely extended Todd McLellan's contract as head coach.
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